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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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John Deere 4020 Hydraulic Chatter

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Tom Townsend

11-09-2006 17:38:02




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I've got a 4020 with a hydraulic system that "chatters" with loader op,steering,and 3 point lift.System is quiet with 2800 psi with nothing operating.When either a loader is moved or attempt to steer,or lift the 3 pt it chatters,pressure drops to 1000 or less.Hard to tell because it rattles the gauge so bad.Nothing will operate.Trans pump is rebuilt since this prob started.Ideas????Thanks,Tom in Tx

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jdemaris

11-09-2006 19:57:41




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 Re: John Deere 4020 Hydraulic Chatter in reply to Tom Townsend, 11-09-2006 17:38:02  
2800 PSI is too high for the standby setting. Should be shutting of at around 2300 PSI. And - it's likely the stroke-control valve spool and seat is worn out. When it gets hammered, it "hammers." You can change it without taking the pump off. Used to cost around $25 for a new spool and seat - but now? Usually, when it leaks it also causes hard hot cranking and starting. Hopefully (and no insult intended) you know the difference between an external chatter - from a worn pump drive, and an internal cavitation chatter when the hydraulics shudder from lack of oil, and the familiar stroke-control hammering when it's leaking and worn.

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Tom Townsend

11-12-2006 17:38:57




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 Re: John Deere 4020 Hydraulic Chatter in reply to jdemaris, 11-09-2006 19:57:41  
Thanks all.I will go back to the start this week on this.There has been many "cooks in the stew" here on this 4020.Will update again when I find somethind.Thanks again,Tom



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Tom Townsend

11-10-2006 10:07:20




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 Re: John Deere 4020 Hydraulic Chatter in reply to jdemaris, 11-09-2006 19:57:41  
More info here.I talked to the tractor owner.He said the entire stroke control valve has been replaced ,twice.Also the trans pump has been "rebuilt".....now what?A pump?



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jdemaris

11-10-2006 10:32:03




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 Re: John Deere 4020 Hydraulic Chatter in reply to Tom Townsend, 11-10-2006 10:07:20  
Without seeing it, or hearing it - who knows? Just looked at a tractor yesterday - advertised with a newly fully rebuilt engine with a "noise" inside the engine. That would indicate to me that something was done wrong - and makes any of the repair work suspect. You've been told the entire stroke-control housing has been repaired,twice. Why? To me, "twice" makes it suspect at the outset. Why the first time, and why-again for the second time? I would not assume it was done correctly - but hey, maybe it was. There is not much to fix in there - a few adjustments, a few seals/o-rings, one little filter to clean and/or change, and replacement of the actual stroke control valve and seat. Generally speaking, problems inside the control valve occur two ways. Situation One - just general wear over time. Pump hammers, off and on, but gets generally noisier over time. Tractor tends to get hard to start, espcecially when hot - unless a pump-detroker is installed. Situation Two - metal debris enters pump and raises havoc. Source can be transmission pump, brake facing debris, etc. - just about anything that gets past the transmission-pump screen in the bottom of the trans. This sort of problem can be a mess - since there will be bits of debris throughout the hydraulic system. Assuming the transmission-pump pickup screen is still in place - it would show that debris if it exists. My point is - any previous claim of repair work can be suspect - unless you know and trust the people involved. Also, why is the standby pressure set so high? If it was my repair job - and I felt confident the noise was coming from the pump area - I'd first pull the stroke-control valve spool and eyeball it. It's a ten minute job. It's not much different than a valve out of an engine cylinder head. Cut at an angle and seals against a seat. If there is anything wrong with it - you will see it - because the valve-seating area will be clean and smooth - or it will be hammered with dents in it. All it takes is one little dent in the seat area and it's no good. To get it out - you remove the cap at the bottom of the pump that has the lock-nut and adjuster (for pressure adjustment). That cap and adjuster pushes against a spring and the stroke-control valve spool. It will all fall out. The seat won't - it is lightly pressed in with o-rings holding it in place. All you need to see is the spool that falls out. In addition, if you suspect the pump, you ought to be able to hear the noise coming from that area. If so - ascertain that the pump drive-shaft is not loose, and the stroke-control valve is okay. When - or if - someone had the entire stroke-control housing off the pump - via the four 1/2" bolts - there are shims inside that determine bearing-preload on the main driveshaft. If any were lost, it will be too loose.

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Gerald J.

11-10-2006 10:27:17




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 Re: John Deere 4020 Hydraulic Chatter in reply to Tom Townsend, 11-10-2006 10:07:20  
What vintage 4020 is it? The hydraulics are so different between the side console and the preside console that trouble shooting one for the other won't work well. Virtually no parts are common from one to the other.

There could be constrictions in filters, or plumbing, like heat exchanger or up front reservoir. There could be air leaks on a suction point. There could be a cracked piston in the main pump, there could be a cracked case in the main pump, though that should be leaking. There could be a steering valve so worn its grabbing all the avialable flow. There could be a leak doing that. One of the service bulletins for the later tractors suggests testing for pressure and seeing how long it will hold up. With no loads operated other than the pressure gauge on a SCV, it is supposed to hold pressure for 5 minutes. If it doesn't there's a leak somewhere and that can only be found by elimination. The side console 4020 shifts the PTO by hydraulics so that is a possible leak.

In the I&T manual there is a flow test for the charge pump, but only for preside console tractors. It says there will be damage if the same test is run on the later tractors.

There could be a bypassing leak in any of the valves, steering, rock shaft, brakes, diferential lock, remotes from a worn valve.

2800 PSI is way high. Should be 2250 according to my manual.

Gerald J.

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buickanddeere

11-09-2006 18:58:37




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 Re: John Deere 4020 Hydraulic Chatter in reply to Tom Townsend, 11-09-2006 17:38:02  
What gpm is being pushed to the front pump? Where does the loader return the oil to the tractor. Is this an early or late 4020? has the check valve replacement/upgrade been performed?



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Gerald J.

11-09-2006 21:07:55




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 Re: John Deere 4020 Hydraulic Chatter in reply to buickanddeere, 11-09-2006 18:58:37  
I checked my service bulletins and service bulletin index and found some information on the later 4020 and there is a check valve in them too. Its up front in a T over the oil reservoir, next to the oil cooler. I've updated my web page with what information I have, at least the service bulletins I have index or bulletin.

Gerald J.

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Tom Townsend

11-10-2006 08:12:42




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 Re: John Deere 4020 Hydraulic Chatter in reply to Gerald J., 11-09-2006 21:07:55  
Gerald,the chatter on this one is present regardless of cluth in or out.Another post suggested the stroke control valve and seat.Cheap and easy enough.I;ll give it a try.Thanks,Tom



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