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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

New Holland 474 Haybine - Hay wrapping on rollers

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Joe

05-17-2004 04:05:40
207.160.141.19



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Have a NH 474 haybine with rubber rollers. Cuts fairly well, although a little slow in heavy grass. Have a problem when cutting tall fescue that hay will wrap up on the top roller. Once it starts, if you don't stop and cut it off, it will comepletely cover the roller. Doesn't seem to be a problem in wheat, ryegrass or red clover - just fescue with long stems. Any idea what causes this problem or how to fix it? Thanks.

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Adam B.

05-18-2004 21:16:03
207.221.80.247



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 Re: New Holland 474 Haybine - Hay wrapping on roll in reply to Joe, 05-17-2004 04:05:40  
We had the same problem with our 489's in very tall hay. What I saw happening was the rolls grabbing the crop and tearing it up by the roots before the knife could cut it, then the crop would wrap or cause a slug to form and plug it up.

Waiting for the field to dry off as much as possible helps, but having really tall grass combined with early Summer rains usually doesn't allow for complete drying (around here anyway). As a temporary fix for 1st cutting, we would sometimes back the tension off the conditioning rolls, pry them apart and insert a small block of square steel tubing under each end of the upper roll (one end at a time). With the upper roll sitting on the blocks, draw the tension up a little. Be sure to remember how many cranks you backed it off in the first place, then how many you cranked it down after inserting the blocks, so you can reset the machine back to how it was when you remove the blocks later on. The result is about a 2" gap between the rolls. Without contact, the rolls don't grab and tear the crop and don't have much tendency to wrap. We never lost a block out or had any damage to the machines as a result of doing that. The downside is that the hay isn't being crushed by the conditioning rolls, but we didn't have the wrapping/plugging problems either.

We now use a pair of John Deere 935 disk mowers with the impeller conditioning, and they chew through tall and heavy crops as easily as short and thin ones.

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Joe

05-18-2004 04:58:21
207.160.141.20



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 Re: New Holland 474 Haybine - Hay wrapping on roll in reply to Joe, 05-17-2004 04:05:40  
Thanks for all the replies. Seems to me, a notch on the roller is the most likely cause - I'll check that out. This problem only started last year, and never a problem in the same conditions until then, also seems to start on the same place on the roller most of the time. Sounds like good advice.



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Clark

05-17-2004 17:45:37
206.246.124.61



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 Re: New Holland 474 Haybine - Hay wrapping on roll in reply to Joe, 05-17-2004 04:05:40  
Just had the same problem with my JD 1290 conditioner. Found a "hangnail" on the top roller just big enough to pinch some grass in it and start the wrap. Did however slow ground speed which helped overall job.



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RAR/IA

05-17-2004 16:06:26
207.28.65.241



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 Re: New Holland 474 Haybine - Hay wrapping on roll in reply to Joe, 05-17-2004 04:05:40  
Is it wrapping on the rubber or on the end shafts? If on the rubber, stop as soon as you see it start. Usually there is a gouge or crack in the rubber that is catching the first stem and it continues from there. Use a small hand grinder and smooth out the gouge or crack. Also keep the sickle SHARP so the rolls are not trying to pull crop out of the ground. Keep the pto up to speed, do not slow rpm down for the corners. Shift down if you have to slow.

If on the shafts, there is usually a deflector to keep crop out of there. They may be missing.

Roger

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TGIN

05-17-2004 15:56:58
208.35.83.65



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 Re: New Holland 474 Haybine - Hay wrapping on roll in reply to Joe, 05-17-2004 04:05:40  
I`m with Shep , Mine went through the big hay just fine untill the rubber started coming of the rolls . Now it wraps up in tall hay . Hey Shep , how much did it cost to replace the rollers ?



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Shep Va

05-18-2004 04:25:28
68.69.97.102



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 Re: Re: New Holland 474 Haybine - Hay wrapping on in reply to TGIN, 05-17-2004 15:56:58  
It cost waayy too much I can tell you that. I had the NH dealer do it because I needed the machine and I think it was $1200 or so to put the new rollers in. Tough call on that one if it is worth it or not. That was at least 5 years ago that we did that and it has been running good ever sence so I guess it was worth it.

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Shep Va

05-17-2004 13:51:01
68.152.9.254



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 Re: New Holland 474 Haybine - Hay wrapping on roll in reply to Joe, 05-17-2004 04:05:40  

I really dont understand the problem I suppose. I cut hay with this 489 NH haybine and I have another 469 Haybine and we mow everything from small grain in the sping to 6 to 8 foot trudan and sudan grass in the dead of the summer, and Orchard grass and alf in between. I bet in 10 + years of running these two machines I can count on one hand the number of times I have wrapped the rolls. The only problem I have with the haybines is getting the far end plugged up in crops that have gone down or are twisted up from wind. I do rent a discbine when the crops get down bad, but 95% of what we mow goes through those two old haybines and they work great.

We did have a problem with the 489 when the rubber started coming off the rolls a few years ago and had to replace the conditioning rolls but that was the wear on the machine.

I have looked a getting a discbine, but the initial costs and the yearly upkeep on those machines really gets in your pocket. I spend on average about $200 each on the haybines to keep them going, I put a new cutter bar in every year and always break a few guards, but not many.

I dont understand why everyone has trouble wrapping the rolls, what am I missing???

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kyhayman

05-17-2004 10:54:16
205.204.242.23



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 Re: New Holland 474 Haybine - Hay wrapping on roll in reply to Joe, 05-17-2004 04:05:40  
That's the main reason I havent run mine in a couple of years. Between wrapping rollers in good hay and the cost of knife and guard breakage that's why I use a disc mower followed immediately with a tedder. The tedder at slow ground speed nets the same effect as the impeller conditioners for much less $$. A NI 5408 disc mower and a NI 18' tedder ran me right at half the cost of a disc conditioner, takes about as long as it did with the haybine not counting the time spent with wrapped rollers and changing guards and sections.

If you can catch it just when it starts to wrap you can stop and pick up the cutter head, it will usually clear itself if you stop quick enough. I got real good at that :-).

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Tim(nj)

05-17-2004 10:16:14
209.50.154.63



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 Re: New Holland 474 Haybine - Hay wrapping on roll in reply to Joe, 05-17-2004 04:05:40  
I used to double-cut with my JD 1209 in that kind of grass. Pick up the cutterbar all the way up, mow a round, then do the same round again with the cutterbar down on the skid plates. Didn't have much trouble with the knife plugging because the cut stuff was up high on the stubble. I did leave tracks from running the grass down the first time over, but when you've got adverse conditions, you do what you need to do to get the crop.

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Errin OH

05-17-2004 09:03:12
168.73.245.53



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 Re: New Holland 474 Haybine - Hay wrapping on roll in reply to Joe, 05-17-2004 04:05:40  
Two things.

Disk and drums have their share of problems as well. Drums, that I have researched in the 2-3 grand range, do not have a conditioner. Although you can get a tedder type attachment for spreading it out. So everything gained from speed is lost to running a crimper or waiting the extra drying time. Disk mowers are nice and will out cut a sickle any day. But here again, under 8-10 grand most likely doesn't have a conditioner. However, you can get them with rollers or flails (sp). 12-15 grand and up new, used who knows. Of course rollers work just like what you have now. So updating to a disk w/rollers wouldn't help. The idea behind the flails is to whack the crop thus breaking the skin so it will dry faster. In long wirey grass the fingers gather more than it pass's. You think cutting it off a roller is tough. In all seriousness, I would agree with Steve. Cut it under 16 - 18". Once it starts reaching for the sky, you loose the broader leafy grass's to a stem/straw like plant. Although still edible, its not as palatable. Besides having the wrap problems with the roller, you run the risk of wrapping it around things that have seals on them. The quickest way to shell a gear box, wrap a bunch of stringy grass around the shaft and take out a seal. And yes it can happen to a brand new $20,000 NH diskbine with less than 300a on it. Ask my neighbor.

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jls

05-17-2004 20:17:48
64.12.116.10



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 Re: Re: New Holland 474 Haybine - Hay wrapping on in reply to Errin OH, 05-17-2004 09:03:12  
how in the world did anybody ball up a flail on a disc mower? mowed timothy 7' tall and splashed water at the lower end of the field. maybe to small a tractor or someone not running throttle up to rpms?



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Hay Dr

05-17-2004 06:03:26
65.40.105.52



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 Re: New Holland 474 Haybine - Hay wrapping on roll in reply to Joe, 05-17-2004 04:05:40  
Update your technology to a drum or disc mower. Anything that cuts with a sickle does not work well with anything wet. You can mow in the mornings when the grass is wet with drum/disc mowers and the hay will curing before you even start with a haybine. Most of the time in grass hay you will have to wait until the dew has burned off in the heat of the day just to start mowing with a haybine.



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Fern(Mi)

05-17-2004 05:34:03
64.12.116.10



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 Re: New Holland 474 Haybine - Hay wrapping on roll in reply to Joe, 05-17-2004 04:05:40  
Have started haying early this year. Wet hay (wet anything) rolls up on top roller. Over years have learned to do three things. Don't go into the field if my shoes get wet. Do not mow through the wet spots, lifting the machine over them. Wait until the dew is off, or vegitation has dried; be it usually not before 10;00AM, be it noon, or for me yesterday 4:00PM in the afternoon. Slow gound speed down. I have also had to change Depth of cut for soil's moisture content, when crowns are pulled rather than cut cleanly. If it has to be mowed, I've driven 1-mph or less; although when conditions are right I prefer zipping along at 3>4-mph. We are useing some older model siclebared 500 and 1400 Hesstons.
Whether anything I have writen helps, good. All I can write is these efforts work for me.
Fernan

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Steve from New Holland

05-17-2004 04:35:33
141.151.39.221



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 Re: New Holland 474 Haybine - Hay wrapping on roll in reply to Joe, 05-17-2004 04:05:40  
Joe, I do know how to fix it. Nobody likes a smart-aleck, but the answer is to cut the grass before it gets that tall. Other than that, I don't have a fix. The only thing that may help is to slow the reel down. Sorry, but haybine technoligy is 40plus years old and were not designed to handle that long grass. Steve



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you are a hobby farmer

05-18-2004 01:15:08
4.41.99.214



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 Re: Re: New Holland 474 Haybine - Hay wrapping on in reply to Steve from New Holland, 05-17-2004 04:35:33  
run that tractor wide open so pto is above 540 RPM's and it will not rap up Your tractor has a governer for a reason use it ,its not a car it will not blow up at full speed the governer will keep it back
They will cut wet tall hay fine tall hay needs the reel running fast so don't slow it down he don't know what he is talking about I didn't know so many didn't know how to run a haybine also look to see if you have drive chains on each roller yes this meens they have 1 chain on top 1 on bottem roller
and mak shure you have the roller tention set as tight as it will go and that its not broke but most inprotant run rpms wide open if you are useing one of those hit and miss JD's park it in the front yard plant flowers in the stack and get a tractor that will run uper RPM's sorry JD lovers but there for fair pulls and shows and pulling flots not geting work done it a timely matter

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