John Deere 336 Square Baler - Needles Not Retracting

John Deere 336 Square Baler - Twine Tie

Dad and I decided to square bale some first cutting hay (one of the best clover stands I've ever seen in a first cutting). The baler did fine for the first 75 bales or so, but then it started sometimes making an awful banging noise on every stroke after the knotters would cycle. Got to looking, and the needles weren't fully returning "home" after entering the baling chamber. It didn't happen every time.

Dad got the book out and studied a bit. He decided he needed to adjust the Needle Lift Link, following the specs in the owner's manual (pic is crooked, sorry!):

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Ran the baler, it seemed to do fine for another 40 bales or so, then started doing it again. Still not every bale, but maybe 40% of the time after the knotters ran their cycle.

Does anyone have a suggestion as to what could be the culprit here? Dad thinks it may be this guy:

18072.jpg


In any case, I'm a bit leary of tearing into this baler too much, as I don't know much about knotters and timing and all that. And the whole thing runs like a top other than this--making consistent, tight, uniform bales.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
 
Are you SURE the needles aren't actually retracting all the way, then moving back into harm's way because the "needle brake" pads are worn out, or simply need to be set tighter? The operator's manual covers their setting, IMHO. Needle brake pads are #13 in the parts drawing below.

Check to be sure the spring (#6)is intact and there's no obvious damage in the "dog clutch" area you have circled in blue.

<img src = "http://jdpc.deere.com/pimages/EP55/EP5515_________UN01JAN94.gif">

Check that bolts, key# 23 and 24 are not loose, badly worn, or partially sheared.
 
Now that you mention it, the needle frame may have fully retracted, then kind of "settled" back into "harm's way."

Does this brake sit right next to the knotters? I have the manual here with me, but the machine is not around.
 
The needle brake is on the RH end of the knotter shaft, the needle lift is at the LH end of the same shaft.
 
In your pic, that trip dog should be in the position shown. If it rides a bit high or low, the fix is moving the trip are slightly forward or reverse. If
your knotters are cycling, there is nothing wrong with the trip dog spring and if it were, it has nothing to do with your needles returning to home.

What it sounds like is happening is your knotter and needles are cycling as they should, however your knotter brake is not holding the needle
frame in the home position and it droops, causing the plunger stop to engage just enough to give you a bang noise, but not enough to stop the
plunger and shear the flywheel bolt.

Sometimes with a needle carrage brake, it appears to hold, but as you make your way around the field, between the baler plunger slamming
the baler forward and backwards, bumpy fields will jolt the needle carriage down/out of position, causing the plunger stop to engage as I
described above.

I don?t have my manual in front of me, but I think there is a spring scale tension the needle carriage brake should be set. This is an easy fix and
I think will solve your problem. I would not screw around with the trip dog unless your knotters aren?t cycling.

336 IMHO is a fine baler - one of the best ever made by anyone.

Good luck,
Bill
 
The awful banging noise is probably the plunger head safety stop hitting the crank arm. It should hit solidly and
break the shear pin on the flywheel. If it is not, you need to adjust that mechanism or you will BALE THE NEEDLES!
That is $$$$.
 
(quoted from post at 08:54:51 06/11/18) As stated below the needle brake is still the likely culprit, but plunger head stop needs adjusting too!

I would say the plunger safety stop adjustment should be CHECKED, but may be just fine.

If the needle brake is slipping and the needle frame is dropping just enough for the safety stop to begin to rise, the plunger will rattle past it without catching.
 
(quoted from post at 11:50:37 06/12/18) Bob, brake is on left side.

Yes, thanks for correcting that!

&lt;img src = "https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSUn_iOUCobBRYgnvYc_jwNhfZqVLzZ51m7YXyiMptqx6Z5_1Ax_w"&gt;

Brake disc is to the left of knotters in the photo.
 
(quoted from post at 20:15:13 06/10/18) The needle brake is on the RH end of the knotter shaft,

I'm going to 2nd Bob's statement that the needle brake is on RH end of knotter shaft on a 336 &amp; disagree with ArleninOr statement that it's on LH side. Needle brake was later moved to LH side on baler models such as a 347
 
Tx Jim, I just went and looked at a 336 that is waiting to be fixed here. Needle brake is indeed on the left side. Also a 338 that is here.
 
UPDATE

Got the brake adjusted according to specs. Baled about 60 bales--perfection! At number 61 or so, the thing started back up. Exactly as some have said: needles would fully retract, then fairly quickly "weep" down, and then BANG, BANG, BANG! Dad stopped the baler, got off the tractor, adjusted the brake a bit tighter, then we kept baling. Seemed to fix the issue. About 20 bales later: BANG, BANG, BANG!

This process repeated itself for the remainder of the 200 bales we put up. Would bale about 20 or 30 bales, and it would start knocking again.

Dad noticed a lot of rust on the "rotor" of the brake assembly--could that be culprit? Reckon the adjusting bolts are working themselves loose? Is it time to replace the braking unit, or is there another "trick" up our sleeves we can try?

Weather looks conducive to baling this weekend, so I hope to be "back on the road" by Saturday or so.

Fingers crossed.
 

I don't remember witnessing brake pad adjusting nuts backing off but it wouldn't be too difficult to install new 3/8 locking nuts.

Inspect lever(key 12) to be sure each end isn't getting farther apart
IE spreading from needle frame contacting lever every time a bale is tied. I've seen the lever bent far enough to bind on bolt/bushing enough to keep lever from moving.
mvphoto20419.png
 
(quoted from post at 04:29:57 07/26/18) UPDATE

Got the brake adjusted according to specs. Baled about 60 bales--perfection! At number 61 or so, the thing started back up. Exactly as some have said: needles would fully retract, then fairly quickly "weep" down, and then BANG, BANG, BANG! Dad stopped the baler, got off the tractor, adjusted the brake a bit tighter, then we kept baling. Seemed to fix the issue. About 20 bales later: BANG, BANG, BANG!

This process repeated itself for the remainder of the 200 bales we put up. Would bale about 20 or 30 bales, and it would start knocking again.

Dad noticed a lot of rust on the "rotor" of the brake assembly--could that be culprit? Reckon the adjusting bolts are working themselves loose? Is it time to replace the braking unit, or is there another "trick" up our sleeves we can try?

Weather looks conducive to baling this weekend, so I hope to be "back on the road" by Saturday or so.

Fingers crossed.
20422.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 07:37:12 07/26/18)
I don't remember witnessing brake pad adjusting nuts backing off but it wouldn't be too difficult to install new 3/8 locking nuts.

Inspect lever(key 12) to be sure each end isn't getting farther apart
IE spreading from needle frame contacting lever every time a bale is tied. I've seen the lever bent far enough to bind on bolt/bushing enough to keep lever from moving.
mvphoto20419.png

The lever appears to be fine, although I'm not certain exactly what you mean. It doesn't seem bent, and I saw it move freely when the needles would cycle (from my vantage point on the wagon behind the baler).

Dad confirms the nuts aren't backing off. Could the pad(s) be worn out? Apparently this baler hasn't made many bales, though. My grandfather bought it in the 80s (I think), but then shortly thereafter, the family bought a round roller, and square baling stopped.
 

Yes brake pads can require replacement from wear or glaze or grease. Check to be sure roll pin(key 18) isn't missing. If safety dog is operating correctly then arm is probably not stretched out.

mvphoto20473.png
 
UPDATE

Replaced the pads--the old ones looked pretty rough (see pic below):

20567.jpg


Those new suckers were over $100 for the pair from Mother Deere. My wife graciously drove to two dealerships an hour apart to rush these to us late yesterday afternoon. Got the new pads installed, and put them to the test today:

20568.jpg


The baler never missed a lick!

Thanks to everyone on here who helped us get our hay in the dry today!
 

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