IH 46 baler with #10 thrower and wagon questions

Hello-

Due to limited help when I need to make hay, I want to upgrade to an IH baler with a bale thrower. I currently bale about 4-5000 bales per year with a mccormick 46 baler. This baler has been an excellent baler, misses very few bales. I have a lead on a mccormick 46 baler with #10 thrower.

My questions are:

does the #10 thrower on a mccormick 46 work well?

how many bales can I fit on average on a 9x16 bale cage wagon?


I am not interested in switching to a john deere or new holland. Been using my 46 baler for 20 years now and know the knotters and baler inside and out. That is why I want to stay with IH balers. Would maybe like to find a newer baler such as the All Twine 430 or 440, but the 46 with thrower is only 10 minutes from the farm. Any thoughts or suggestions would be great. Thanks in advance!


-Jesse
 
What about purchaceing a NewHolland stackwagon?That way you can bale all your hay without having to dump and handstack,or switch wagons.Bale your hay,pickup the bales with the machine,then stand the load up in the barn. One man haymakeing.
 
A good tying IH baler is a keeper!! If you know your 46 is a good baler, you might want to get the one down the road & put that thrower on your baler.
Then keep the other one around as a second or for parts. The 430/440 balers are good & have a healthy appetite.... but you already know your baler.
That's my first thought, anyhow. I have 8x16 wagons & fit about 110 - 120. It helps to stop & re-situate your load on occasion.

Good luck & Happy Holidays!

Mike
 
(quoted from post at 19:29:33 12/20/17) What about purchaceing a NewHolland stackwagon?That way you can bale all your hay without having to dump and handstack,or switch wagons.Bale your hay,pickup the bales with the machine,then stand the load up in the barn. One man haymakeing.

Have thought about stackwagons, but my barn is not set up for one. Have a 100 year old barn, can only drive up the ramp and into it in one spot and use portable pipe elevators to get the hay where we want. Now if I had a nice pole shed, that would be a great idea!
 
Been years since I had mine, 35 years. That thrower works good, Just don't make long bales. 30" or less works best.My wagond were the old grain beds with homemade rackes on them. Some lucky to be 6' wide. If you get the bales too heavy may have trouble getting them to back of long wagon but they should not be baled if thay are going to be that heavy.
 

After seeing some posts, sounds like I should be able to easily get over 100 bales on a wagon. By hand stacking I can easily get 180 bales going 6 high on a 9x16 cage wagon, so I figured around 125 per wagon as a guess for bales off a thrower.

-Jesse
 

I can't help with IH specifics but I have a few suggestions about getting a good load on a wagon. First, throw about 25 30 bales on the wagon trying to get them in the middle. Stop and stack 10 in the front tier, 10 in the back tier and the rest in the middle. While doing this you are checking your weight and tension. The thrower is not able to put them in the front, and letting them slam into that back wall in order to get them to the rear can result in breakage. Now that the wagon is "set-up", just keep going. If, however you need to get a max load on, when it is nearing full, stop and do a little rearranging, especially stacking a few at the top along the back to prevent the bales from "skipping" over the top, and building the front up a little to prevent them falling back and off the front.
 
I had a IH 430 baler that I put a #10 thrower on. The 430 was used with a NH stack wagon and the baler was in good shape and only paid $900 at an auction. Should of bought the stack wagon too but already had the kicker wagons. The thrower worked good and I had a chance to get a new baler so traded on a Case IH that was similar in design to the 440. I believe it was the last of the IH design before they went to NH. Still tied the IH bow tie knots on the bale. This CaseIH had the NH belt style thrower . The #10 thrower with the rollers would have a bearing go bad on the rollers once in awhile and that's the only problem I remember.
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I had a 46 and I put a thrower on it and it worked
well enough. You need to also get the axle kit. Sets
the wheel on knotted side back to rear of the baler,
to help carry the extra weight. It is also real nice to
have a dual tire on the knotter side of the baler. I
have a 47 all equipped like this sitting in the shed. If
you were in Ontario, I?d sell you the whole thing for
$400.00
 
(quoted from post at 12:34:25 12/22/17) I had a 46 and I put a thrower on it and it worked
well enough. You need to also get the axle kit. Sets
the wheel on knotted side back to rear of the baler,
to help carry the extra weight. It is also real nice to
have a dual tire on the knotter side of the baler. I
have a 47 all equipped like this sitting in the shed. If
you were in Ontario, I?d sell you the whole thing for
$400.00

Bruce-

Wish i was closer to you, that 47 sounds like a good baler.
 
I have baled my share of square bales over the years. I still bale about 5 thousand each year. I have been using a baler with thrower for about 25 years now. I have seven steel thrower racks that are the 9x18 size. On the average we get 170 to 180 bales on a load. More if you stack a few. less if you just kick them in. they do have the flared tops and a light chain across the front above the fold down door.One thing to keep in mind if switching from baling on a flat rack to thrower wagens. It is getting hard to find twine strong enough to make a good tight bale and still live through the kicker. We had to change over to plastic twine this last year.The IH #10 is a good kicker but will burn the strings off if you dont pay attention. I like the solid belt type much better. I have bought most of my wagons in wisconsin used. This time of year you can find as many as you would want for 1000 or less. Al
 
Dual tire on the knotter side of bakers of that vintage was a very common thing around here, especially with a thrower. Took a lot of the shock of dropping into a woodchuck hole or a dead furrow away. Have seen balers without duals with the knotter side wheel with a bent axle, and even snapped off.
 
In my area have never seen a baler with a dual. Dad got first baler in probably 54. But when cows left in 80 baler left next year.
 
(quoted from post at 18:49:53 12/22/17) Dual tire on the knotter side of bakers of that vintage was a very common thing around here, especially with a thrower. Took a lot of the shock of dropping into a woodchuck hole or a dead furrow away. Have seen balers without duals with the knotter side wheel with a bent axle, and even snapped off.

You see them now and then in New England, but I believe that it is more often due to moisture in the ground.
 
(quoted from post at 13:02:44 12/21/17)
After seeing some posts, sounds like I should be able to easily get over 100 bales on a wagon. By hand stacking I can easily get 180 bales going 6 high on a 9x16 cage wagon, so I figured around 125 per wagon as a guess for bales off a thrower.

-Jesse
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I could get 120 bales on a wagon and was also a one man operation. I also had the ramp to drive upstairs into the loft and the old barn would creak and groan when I pulled in.
 
Hay buyer had some for a while. Have not seen them doing any baleing for a few years now. From what I saw of those baskets I would let everything grow up in brush before I would ever have or use one of those stupid things.
 
Friend had one on a 24t it had a hard time with the knots from the jar of the thrower never had a problem after the bale basket it all depends on the user . We filled 4 barns plus stacks ever year with an international there all right but can be fussy bale basket is simple and easy .The first thrower we had on the international had a gas motor i can still remember the bale going through the back end of the wagon .
 
The back end of the wagon must have been crap for that to happen. And sounds like that baler need knoter repair. With wagons can put bales inside when the rain is just starting instead of having loads dumped outside wating to be put on the elevator with the rain pouring down, You can try to cover with tarps but they will not keep bales dry. Then after you carry the last of the bales 50 feet to the elevator because you cannot dump any more closer you have the hay chaff on top of the gravel barnyard to clean up that you cannot get up without picking up the gravel and then that chaf has too many stones in to run thru a hammer mill to put in feed if being laying on that wet ground it has not molded to the point of being just manure for you to get rid of. The wagon can set in the barn or if has to be covered with a big enough tarp to keep the hay dry untill you can get the help to put it in the barn 3 weeks later just befor the next cutting. So on the farm they do not compute. For like the hay buyer that would just dump in field and had a daily crew to load out on trucks as it was being baled then yes they could work and any busted bales left and not rebaled. But when you don't have the daily help to put in barn right away and hafe to dump load after load getting farther from elevator with every load that walk along could be a killer carrying those bales to elevator. To do something like that would have had to let the elevator set in barn unusuable for anything else with doors open for all kinds of weather to get in and then barnyard filled with hay laying so you could not get around. And that carring from the far away dumpe is as hard as the hand stacking on wagon that we got rid of and got thrower for.
 
(quoted from post at 14:52:06 12/23/17) Ever think of a bale basket

Bale baskets pretty much force you to have an extra person. With the elevator on the front of the wagon, all you need is one guy down to two up in the loft. With a bale wagon you need one on the ground for every one in the loft.
 
You seem to want to make it very complicated. The baler was good knotter was good as long as the basket was on
Wagon box was a chopper box rear unload the old style what happened was they didn't know how much power the motor on the thrower had so they opened the briggs at full throttle . When i baled i did it alone its easy but i never stood around figuring ways i couldn't do it.
 
(quoted from post at 12:50:23 12/24/17) Interesting i always baled alone no help.
Kewanee elevator has a drag line simply back
up and dump

OK, you had an elevator but what does that have to do with dumping something with a rope? and how did the bales get onto an elevator? and what happened when four bales had come off the elevator? or did you have the end up high and just let them fall into a pile?
 
Back up to the dragline and swing bales as
the slide in . to many problems getting help
just dump bales in mow.When i did stack in
barn i simply backed alongside we once
filled a barn to the top that way.
This is why i quit posting you simply make a
little suggestion and all of a sudden a few
people decide that is wrong because they
can't figure out how to do it. I never had
extra help much less extra cash the solution
i usually came up was the simplest easy way
to do it a lot of my neighbors were like you
it was wrong because i did it but then when
they started doing it then it was ok
 
I?ve read anywhere from 130 to close to 200 depending on the length of the bale and how good the thrower operator can land the bales,

I don?t know anything about the #10 thrower, but did some searching on this forum and there are some posts regarding them.

Keep in mind that if you ever move to a newer IH baler, I?m to understand if they are if the all twine type, then you are into the New
Holland/John Deere style knotters.

Good luck,
Bill
 
Bill, I looked up Case IH 5420 on Tractorhouse and 5 listings popped up. The 5420 is I believe the last of the IH style bale knotter. The last baler is at Frank Walkers auction yard and could be my old baler. Thought that was funny as Catskill Tractor in Franklin N.Y. is where I bought the baler new in 1991. Franklin is a no stoplight town that was about 15 miles from our farm. Merry Christmas!
 
(quoted from post at 16:02:28 12/24/17) I?ve read anywhere from 130 to close to 200 depending on the length of the bale and how good the thrower operator can land the bales,

I don?t know anything about the #10 thrower, but did some searching on this forum and there are some posts regarding them.

Keep in mind that if you ever move to a newer IH baler, I?m to understand if they are if the all twine type, then you are into the New
Holland/John Deere style knotters.

Good luck,
Bill


Thanks all for answering my questions, got alot of info! Let me pose a few other questions related to this baler.

If I were to find a newer 430,440 with the All-Twine Knotters, how much more reliable are they at tying as compared to the knotter on a model 46 or 37,47 baler,noticeable difference or still touchy knotter?

How much more capacity will I gain from going to a 46 to a 430 baler? Can I bale at higher speed and force more hay through safely and effeciently?

Also, didn't the 435,445 baler have the upgraded deering knotter like John Deere and New Holland?

Thanks again for all the help!


-Jesse
 
170-180 kicking into a 9x18 without stacking? 14x18x36" bales?! Not questioning...more impressed than anything else.

Best I have ever done on a 9x18 without stacking is 125. With some stacking and freely kicking I can get 140. With a man riding to stack (we do this if we know the hay is going to sit on the wagon for an extended period) we do 175.

Neighbor used to stack 250-300 on his Pequea kicker wagons for hay deliveries. He went 3 tiers above the top of the rack and used to haul them in tandem down the road 2x a week to deliver to a large horse farm. Pulled it with a JD4000 screaming the whole way up the hill.
 

Another major factor in how many bales you can get on a wagon is how level your ground is. If you are on much of a slope your thrower is going to throw them a good ten feet further going down hill than up, due to your engine speed picking up. This results in more bales skipping over the top as you go downhill. Sure you can adjust it but it is still far from flat running where you adjust only for distance not for both grade AND distance. After you skip some over the top you are going to lose time by going after them after you hook up an empty wagon.
 

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