65 pound small squares....really?

lastcowboy32

Well-known Member
Back when DHI (the Dairy Herd Improvement) organization started becoming common, my father got in the program. One of the things that they did when they came to the farm for the initial visit, was to have us weigh a few bales of hay and take forage samples.

That was eye-opening. As kids, we used to always talk about how heavy the bales were (they got really heavy on summer days when haying went to midnight).

But were they really? According to the DHI scales, they weighed about 38 pounds on average. Now, my brother who did the baling never made long, long bales; but they look not much different than what I see posted on Facebook groups by people selling horse hay.

The ads invariably say "65 pound bales" and "dry" and "mold free"

I really just want to go there with a spring scale and find out.

The last time that I bought hay myself, was by the ton. It was dairy grade alfalfa second cut. Bought it from a friend of the family. He weighed his tractor and wagon empty; then weighed them full on the way to my farm. He and I, out of curiosity did a little math on the weight and the number from his bale counter. Over 3000 bales of hay, we calculated an average of 46 pounds.

Now, I HAVE picked up some bales that we used to call "mud bales" that you get when you bale out some frog hole in the middle of the field. Those bales could honestly weigh 65 pounds, or even more.

I'm curious, has anyone here made true 65 pound bales of perfectly dry hay? If so, how long are those suckers? Because the pictures that I see in these Facebook ads don't show bales that look nearly long enough to be 65 pounds, unless they're made of cement.
 
Full disclosure: I'm NOT in the market for hay. We have more in the barn this year than we could ever use (for once).

This is strictly a curiosity.
 
I used to bale 120,000-150,000 small squares a year, I ran two NH SP balers, and a model 78NH as well all big chambered balers,, I averaged 70lbs on them no problem, 10-12% moisture, and yes I used scales to weigh them also but always liked to run over the scales to be sure,, if you know how to properly setup a baler you can put out a very uniform bale in both length and weight which was Very important to me as I stacked them all with a bale wagon. Those were string balers but I also have a wire tie,, it will put out 80-100 lb bales if you want them that heavy I do not so I shorten them to stay in the 70-80 lb range, in grain hay the weight goes up
cnt
 
CNT, you are stating you use large chambered balers - I guess that is 16x18 and not what some consider "standard " 14x18 size? Anyway, I am interested to see if anyone chimes in on this topic that uses a 14x18 baler and string tie. While wire ties are almost nonexistent in my area of the east, I know 14x18 wire ties can be done at 70lbs and greater.
 
(quoted from post at 09:13:32 11/29/17) I used to bale 120,000-150,000 small squares a year, I ran two NH SP balers, and a model 78NH as well all big chambered balers,, I averaged 70lbs on them no problem, 10-12% moisture, and yes I used scales to weigh them also but always liked to run over the scales to be sure,, if you know how to properly setup a baler you can put out a very uniform bale in both length and weight which was Very important to me as I stacked them all with a bale wagon. Those were string balers but I also have a wire tie,, it will put out 80-100 lb bales if you want them that heavy I do not so I shorten them to stay in the 70-80 lb range, in grain hay the weight goes up
cnt

That's all interesting. That also answers a little curiosity that I've had over the years. I could have sworn that I've seen pictures either in "Farm Journal" or other magazines or online of "small squares" that were just a little bigger than your average "small square."

It doesn't really apply to what I'm talking about, though. In the ads that I see, many of them post pictures of the baling process. They're baling with "regular" balers (NH 315...575...etc), not big- chambered balers.

The pictures also show all string tie bales.
 

I get what you mean about "grain hay" as well. We bought straw a couple of years back. It was sold with the oats still on it. When we went to pick it up, the seller told us that his custom combine operator had a breakdown and never made it back to his place in time to harvest; so he just mowed and baled the ripe oats with the grain still in place.

Those were DENSE bales. I still don't think they were 65 pounds, though.

Side note: That "straw" was an excellent buy. I ran the bales through the bedding chopper upstairs in the hayloft. I would do thirty of them once a week. Once they were chopped, I used a wide-tined fork to move the pile next to the hole where I dropped bedding into the stable.

I then swept the floor with a broom into another pile.

We had bedding all winter long, and we had "threshed" oats for our milkers when they freshened in March.

Bedding chopper = poor man's thresher
 
40lb bales are fine, thank you. My dad said that they used to make them 100lbs ea, and the bailer man would bring scales with him to weigh them. I wonder how many guys on the wagon got killed when 4 100lb bales pulled through the forks when the pulley went into the carrier?
I know where a Case 3 wire bailer stationery, is.
 
Yes I am talking the 16x18 as the big chamber balers,, I also have the small chamber ones, in grass hay the 50 lb range is common,, I do make 250-800 straw bales a year to sell to the local Coop,, they averaged 44 lbs this year, this is a small chamber baler, I bale them as tight as I can without the strings breaking
cnt
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We always figured that in reality,they were around 40 pounds,so that puts your 38 pound average about on the mark.
 
We live in a wet climate, wet ground, rains every 3 days in late spring, and those 'mid bales' are all too common here. Hay is the waste ground
you can't farm because it's too wet in spring.....

So, yes it sure isn't good hay, but growing up I stacked many 65lb bales with dad driving....... then stack them with room to breath in the barn.....

Thankfully now have a round baler to bale that low quality stuff, and hope for some real good second cutting small squares.

I believe out west they make 'small squares' that are three string and packed much tighter, in an arid climate?

Paul
 
I do a lot of custom baleing. I use a CaseIH 8530 inline,usually pulled with a 826 hydro. I have one customer who INSISTS on the bles being 60lbs.I bought a scale and I weigh them till I get 60 lbs. And check them every round or so.At the saME IME ,NO PROBLEM ON GETTING 70-80 POUNDERS EITHER.I sometimes have trouble getting the wt down to 40/50 lbs.However,when baleing bone dry grass,about 50 lbs is average.
 
When we milk we baled with a JD 14T and baled alfalfa hay and baled a 60 to 65 lb. bale and straw about a 35 lb. bale. We could have baled heavier but keep
weight down so mom and wife could move bales if they needed to.
 
We bale with a 14x18 John Deere and a Hesston inline. 60 lbs is our avg. These are grass hay and 36 inch bales. Have no problem getting bales that will weigh more but don't because our customers do not want over 60 lbs. Set up and windrow size matter.
 
35 to 40 bales are fine for me as well thank you. :)^D. However I am now feeding off 4'X 3'x 8' bales. I don't know what they weigh but the strings really pop when I cut them. I feed them a flake at a time with the loader.
 
The amish bale wet then take it in cut the
strings and put it through the chopper .
Seen one run it through a blower with knives
then blow it into a bagger . For some reason
they only stack three high on the wagon. I
can only imagine what that does to the baler
 
Ours were around 38 inches long and weighed 70 to 80lbs. and they were not wet. We just cranked the tension down. Our oats straw bales weighed more then 40lbs!
 
don't know the weight of the bales but I was watching an old video clip on a case wire tie baler and the bales looked almost like a wooden block, the man grabbing them from the baler looked a little wobble legged handling them
 
65 pounds are the kind of bales you carry one in
each hand now the 80 pound bales are the ones
that get harder to handle
 

I used to make longer, heavier bales, probably 45-50 lbs. grass hay. These days I'm averaging a 35 lbs bale about 30-32" long. No one wants to handle anything bigger or heavier. It's all the same to me. If that's what they want, great. As long as it's solid enough to stack well and SWMBO is happy, I'm good.

I ran a load off for a neighbor after changing some stuff on the old 68 and he got some really, really dense bales that my arm says ran closer to 50lbs plus. He wasn't very happy at all!
 
If the hay is as dry as it should be (15%) my NH 316 will not make a 32" 65lb bale. With the tension all the way down, all the hay dogs in good shape, and four chamber wedges, they come out in the 45-50lb range.
I think we have a tendency to overestimate the weight of our bales - especially as we get older...
 
Casenutty, wish I had you here to show me why my 140 wont tie. Mine has the Case air cooled engine set sideways on it. Had another that had a PTO shaft. I think I took it off, but I guess it didn't make the move.
I remember once that granddad Adolph was bailing wet clover with his 45 IHC string tie bailer. I saw water running out of the chamber. It hurt my hands after a short while to get my fingers underneath the strings, and all I could do was to get them to the wagon. Somebody else had to put them on it. I was around 13. Id guess those bales crammed 100lbs alful close.
 
My bales run 34-36" with weight at 50-55# as weighed. It can vary somewhat with lighter bales at higher baling speeds in coarse material but seldom below 45#.

Rod
 
(quoted from post at 18:12:37 11/29/17) Ours were around 38 inches long and weighed 70 to 80lbs. and they were not wet. We just cranked the tension down. Our oats straw bales weighed more then 40lbs!

What kind of baler. If it's a run of the mill NH baler (273, 316, 276, etc); I would be highly suspect of anybody getting 80 pound twine tie bales out of it.

My 276 puts out somewhere around 45 pound bales at the length that I have set. When my father-in-law bales, he sometimes doesn't get off and adjust the tension for varying field conditions.

Most of the time, it's fine, and we might get the occasional 60 lb bale; but if it tries to really pack some wet stuff into something that would weigh 80 pounds or so, we end up with broken bales, twine pulling out of the twine fingers, or both.

Maybe my twine fingers are too loose, but you know what? I don't want to pick up an 80 pound bale anyway. The broken bales are just a reminder to my father-in-law to relax the tension and re-bale; before I go to pick them up :)
 

I bale them at 40-45 lbs, but I bet that the first bale that I ever made was over 100 lbs. there was a lot of shade on the little patch and I didn't have a tedder, just the rake. I didn't know yet how to tell when it was dry, so when I started baling with a lot of moisture in it, of course there was more resistance to it in the chamber which was probably rusty to boot, so it packed it in really tight. The bale was also longer than it should have been, probably over four feet. When I got it out I could not lift even one end of it.
 
Have made a lot of bales with JD 336 and now a case is sb531, average 70 lb bales are about 44". That seems to make bales tight enough to
stack well but small enough to handle. The new baler will make good alfalfa bales 85 lbs if I wanted it but my back is too tired.
 
Depends on the baler. My IH 47 wire tie baler can only squeeze out about 55 pound brome bales - that's about the best it can manage. With prairie hay the best it could do was 45 pounds. I also have a 276 New Holland baler that has a rusty bale chute that didn't get used enough to shine it up last year (first year I owned it). I only ran about 70 bales of prairie hay through it and those bales came out weighing a good 65 pounds even with the tension set a little light. I was also snapping shear bolts right and left too.
 
I have a scale weigh in at 55-65 freshly baled 36" with a 273 N.H. But after they sit in shed.. selling out of shed
they def wont be that heavy.. most folks dont relize what weight a bale is or would be.. I had a guy call one time to
buy wanted 85 pounders.. I started laughing..

I have a bale wagon so weight does matter to me..
 
(quoted from post at 06:57:01 11/30/17)
I used to make longer, heavier bales, probably 45-50 lbs. grass hay. These days I'm averaging a 35 lbs bale about 30-32" long. No one wants to handle anything bigger or heavier. It's all the same to me. If that's what they want, great. As long as it's solid enough to stack well and SWMBO is happy, I'm good.

I ran a load off for a neighbor after changing some stuff on the old 68 and he got some really, really dense bales that my arm says ran closer to 50lbs plus. He wasn't very happy at all!

This is what we do. Easier on everyone and our customers really like them.
 

Our baler was an old 116W JD side-winder and the only complaints we got was that most people could not get their fingers under the wires, to handle them..!!

How heavy, I am not sure, but more than Twice what the neighbors weighed..they thought we were GOOD help, when they needed help..!!!

I CAN tell you that good Straw bales were as heavy as any Hay bales, from that baler...

We Custom Baled for years..Mom had no trouble punching out 1,000 a day with the WD-45 and that 116W..

Ron.
 
I use a jd 348 baler. It has the 14 x 18 bale chamber. When baling grass I generally get a 75+ pound bale and in mostly alfalfa it is 80+ pounds. That being said my bales are 42 - 44 inches long. I like them that long because with my NH 1036 stack wagon I can haul 80 bales to the load and my stack has 10 bales on the tie tier. You will have to ask the daughter how heavy the bales were 3 years ago.
Bud
 

I would think in dryer areas than the humid northeast, that you can make a tighter bale that's going to be more dense. Up here just the moisture from the ground in any but the driest summers adds a significant amount of moisture to the bale. Doesn't seem to matter how many times or when you rake it, you still get that "slightly damp" feel to the bottom of the windrow. Maybe packing them really tight wouldn't ever be a problem, but even my bales get somewhat of a warm feel in the mow for the first few days. It's not a lot of heat, but more than the ambient temps. I always put it down to the humidity of the ground.

Besides, no one wants to play with bales over 35-40lbs anymore. Some complain with those as it is!
 
We bale only 2,000ish or so bales or year and we make 40lb bales. Seems the horse population doesn't want anything bigger or heavier. Though looking at an accumulator now I think we'll have to make heavier bales.
 
Almost on cue, it seems that the people on Facebook that have been posting these ads must have gotten the feeling that people wonder about whether they are truly selling 65 pound bales...

An ad was placed today by the same people, and they actually gave dimensions: 14" x 18" x 40"
 

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