Would this idea work to preserve knotter timing?

lastcowboy32

Well-known Member
I've read quite a few posts here about replacing knotter drive chains on New Holland balers and all of the problems that can be had with getting the knotter and needles back in time with the plunger.

It's put the fear of God in me. I now have nightmare daydreams of what would I do if my chain broke. What would I do? I would have to go back through all of the adjustments from scratch.

What if... What if I took my paint pen that I use for marking metal...set the plunger to a known position...then mark the front sprocket to point at the tooth in the 12 o'clock position....then mark the sprocket at the knotter the same way. Then write down the number of chain links between them along the top...along with noting the plunger position.

If I could preserve this information, would I have a chance of simply putting on a new chain without starting from scratch?
 
Way back when I first started messing with old balers I was told to ALWAYS sue the same number of links in a chain as what came off of it or you will never keep them in time and I have always done just that and it does help
 
On a New Holland baler, the number of links doesn't matter - except for the big chain driving the feeder forks - if you have that set-up, like a
model 68, maybe a 311, 315, 316, 276, etc.

IMHO it is more important to have a functional stop, needle brake and chains in good working order. I'd think it would be hard to damage a
New Holland baler if these items are operating up to snuff.

YMMV
 

I've done the timing on my 68 several times over the years, sorting out problems. It's-not-that-big-a-deal. Really. Set your marks according to the manual and go. The biggest problem is finding the marks under 7 layers of paint, dirt, rust, grease and more paint and figuring out which side of the mark to go to to compensate for 50 years of wear. Who knows? You might be one of the many lucky ones and find your marks are within a cats hair of being right on!
 
Get a new chain with the same number of links as your old chain (why change link numbers). Mark a tooth and a link on the old chain for each sprocket that matters. Then lay the old chain by the new chain and transfer the marks. Then when the new chain goes on it goes right where the old one came off and you won't miss count or forget the number of links. Same idea though as counting.
 
nothing to loose sleep over, while it's in time make sure you can see the timing marks, if not remark them as best as you can , I've retimed ours before setting the plunger crank as near vertical as I could get it by eye because the marks aren't visible on it, then line up the knotter marks install the chain and it worked o.k., by keeping a good knotter drive chain on it you will help avoid down time, as for the timing change from wear in the chain and sprockets, the plunger and needles were designed with enough clearance to compensated for normal wear, Bill VA gave good advice on avoiding damage if something goes south especially about making sure you have a WORKING PLUNGER STOP.
 
I have re-timed both of my balers this year. Even on a 50 year old baler the marks are still there. Follow manual
directions. It is a 30 minute job at most.

Having a new chain available is a way to avoid the Saturday afternoon breakdown crisis.

A properly working (and adjusted ) needle latch (often called a plunger stop) is the first thing to check every spring.
 

When I was 16 the farmer that I worked for got a brand new MF 12 baler. I thought that it was really slick. We hadn't used it a lot when one day it went out of time. He messed around with it some and I was reading the instructions that were silk screened onto the inside of that big cover that hinges up at the far end. After awhile he told his sons they were going to go milk the cows and for me to fix the baler. It wasn't that tough, just step by step through the instructions, and it wasn't long before I had it cycling properly.
 


I couldn't find any marks on my 57 year old baler. Took about 5 seconds with a brush in an angle grinder to uncover them!
 

I wish someone would please explain to me how the length of a chain can affect sq baler timing.

No matter how long the chain or number of links in a chain there will be the same number of links between the drive & driven sprockets with remainder of links on the idler side of sprockets. I do understand how a worn/stretched chain can affect timing.
Thanks,Jim
 
(quoted from post at 06:05:23 08/03/17)
I wish someone would please explain to me how the length of a chain can affect sq baler timing.

No matter how long the chain or number of links in a chain there will be the same number of links between the drive & driven sprockets with remainder of links on the idler side of sprockets. I do understand how a worn/stretched chain can affect timing.
Thanks,Jim

Those who don't understand won't understand anyways.
 
(quoted from post at 06:05:23 08/03/17)
I wish someone would please explain to me how the length of a chain can affect sq baler timing.

No matter how long the chain or number of links in a chain there will be the same number of links between the drive & driven sprockets with remainder of links on the idler side of sprockets. I do understand how a worn/stretched chain can affect timing.
Thanks,Jim

Those who don't understand won't understand anyways.
 
(quoted from post at 14:50:21 08/03/17)
(quoted from post at 06:05:23 08/03/17)


Those who don't understand won't understand anyways.

May I ask whom you think doesn't understand? So are you stating you have no idea how to explain the view that a roller chain on a sq baler needs have same number of links to remain in time as when it left the factory?
 
I had a NH65 and NH 269 and on those both, I was having trouble with the timing in that the plunger stop sometimes didn't move out of the way in time and BANG. At best it would start to tick against the stop and make a fella nervous. A new chain solved the problem. They stretch and can make the timing late.The marks should have the plunger crank pointing straight up and there should be 2 groups of 3 punch marks on the knotter that will more or less line up. Run it through a cycle by hand and see how the stop moves out of the way just in time for the crank arm to swing by. The shear bolt on the knotter should do its job before you would break a chain. As I recall, on one or both of mine, they do specify the number of links but I believe that had more to do with length needed overall than timing. Have a NH316 now. Boy does that eat hay compared to the old ones. Just got my first round baler, a Hesston 540. Maybe that will spell the doom of small squares around here. haha
Good luck
 
It took me a long time to figure this one out too.... but when you look at a red baler with the ricksha feeder... you realize that the length
of the chain is important.... because of where it places the feeder tines. But that is the only instance where I've ever seen it matter... on
a driven chain. On a drive chain such as drives the knotters... the length doesn't matter.

Rod
 
Personally... I think your time would be better invested in making sure, regularly, that the plunger stop is free and functioning. So long as
it is, a broken or mis-timed drive will not matter in as much that the stop will prevent a catastrophe.

As far as timing goes... I never thought it that big of a deal. I never did a NH, but the rest simply call for the plunger to be in a certain
place, take a measurement to the needles and put the chain on making sure you take the slop out of the drive side.

Rod
 
(quoted from post at 12:54:51 08/06/17) It took me a long time to figure this one out too.... but when you look at a red baler with the ricksha feeder... you realize that the length
of the chain is important.... because of where it places the feeder tines. But that is the only instance where I've ever seen it matter... on
a driven chain. On a drive chain such as drives the knotters... the length doesn't matter.

Rod

I've only worked on a few NH sq balers but I'd have to witness on a NH sq baler that a certain number of links were required to keep something in time if chain wasn't worn out. As I previously stated only a given number of links will fit between the drive & driven sprocket no matter how many links are on the off side where idler sprocket normally fits to take up slack.
 
Perhaps I wasn't clear.... Go look at the feeder arrangement on those balers. You'll see that a chain is the prime mover. It's one of those
550's or something like that. Because of how it's set up that part of the baler does require a specific number of links in the chain so as to
position the tines properly.
It has nothing to do with any other chain on the machine. It's a very specific, isolated situation. This has no bering on the knotter drive
chain at all. In normal practice I agree with you 100% about chains. I've said before and will say again... you could run the chain to china
and back... and as long as the drive side is tight it will keep time...
Just look at the NH feeder and I'm sure you will understand what I'm saying.

Rod
 
I think it was a 316 I had looked at last summer. I forget the model number... but it's the fast one that swallows it's feeder all the time.

Rod
 

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