New Holland Knots Hanging on Billhook followup.

Posted a while ago, NH 273, had for 40ish years,
this year started hanging knots on the billhook
frequently (not every time).
It is hanging them on both sides of the knotter.
1. Changed knives (old ones were dull). Did not fix.
2. Cycled through to watch knotter. Everything
functions. Out of spec is wiper arm contacting base
of billhook. One side does not rub against the base,
the other side seems to contact it too hard.
According to manual it should "rub" against the back
side of the bill hook. Does that mean barely brush
or is any contact good. Like is said, one side
doesn't seem to contact, the other seems to hit too
hard.
3. The only major change in this baler in the last 40
years is that it did not make it inside this winter (long
story not going to happen again). So my big
wondering is: Before I go bending the wiper arms
or adjusting the spring- should I lightly sand the
billhook? Both sides are malfunctioning equally,
but are, seemingly, out of alignment in opposite
directions. There had been no blunt trauma to the
knotters, just improper care.
If shining those up a little more doesn't solve it, what
should step 2 be; Should I back those spring
loaded nuts off a touch of attempt to bend the arm?
 
The instructions I got with the new wiper arms I got for the 47 said it should require 6 pounds of pull to pull the wiper across the bilhook. I set them for a twitch more than that because the wiper pivot hold were worn.
 
The part your talking about needs to be pretty tight to the bill hook as in you cannot put a sheet of paper between the hook and the swiper. Also the twine knife has to be nice and sharp which I sharpen every summer when I use my NH271
 
Yes if to tight they can hang up and cause odd problems. Been a while but if I remember right the manual talks about them needing X number of foot pound to pull them across the bill hook but not so much that you have a hard time doing ti by hand. Or as in you should feel them drag a bit not but so much drag that it is hard to move them
 
Ok. On one side there is no contact and the other there is too much. Perhaps that is where I start tomorrow. Owners manual doesn't get a number...butnprevipus poster mentioned 6 ft lbs.
 
off the bill hook.Try emory cloth, gently sand the bill hooks. Put pressure on the knots.The force of the twine pulls the knot off the billhook. It works well with bale pressure, but may not work as well when just turning the baler over in the shop.
 
Used a 268 and 273 for years. When the 268 started hanging knots, I started spraying the knotters with WD40 after each day of baling and before starting to bale the next time, never had this problem again. Easy and cheap -worked for me.
 
Some things to check (some already covered)
*Stripper/knife arm needs to have a definate resistance in passing over bill hook but definately not 'binding'.
*Helps if knife arm has a squarish leading edge so as not try to ride twine.
*Helps a lot if knife is not just sharp but 'Razor sharp'.
*Wear on either the pivot shaft of knife arm OR in the knotter frame can allow arm to ride over twine intermittantly.
*Bill hooks can develop a surprisingly deep wear groove at the base making it very haed for the knot to be shifted.
*Easy way to check knife arm action is to remove anchor bolt of frame and manually rotate frame over and 'feel' how hard stripper is passing over bill hook. If adjusted too tight it will clash on the tip of bill hook on the return action. Thee Knife is easy and safe to bend with a hammer off the machine or can (depending on direction) with 8 or 10 inch shifting spanner.
 
A couple more thoughts while I was having lunch. Check for wear on the roller of the knife arm. It can look good but have reduced diameter and also wear in the inside bore of the roller and/or the knife arm shaft it runs on. Also check for wear on the cam gear it runs on. Wear at these points can add up to reduced travel, and so lift, of the arm at the bill hook end. They can be fixed in a reasonable workshop. Loose bales can also affect stripping of knots as if too slack there is not enough resistance there for the stripper to lift knot off bill hook. There are two actions simultaneously of the knife arm in removing the knot. One is literally scraping the knot off the back of the hook and the other is the throat of the knife arm lifts it off (betwee the hook and the bale) this is where the bale tension can affect the operation. Most of the wear/adjustment problems individually won't affect the knotter operation greatly, but get several and they have a compounding effect.
 
Ya not sure how much FT/lbs is needed since the only manual I have for a square baler is for a JD-14T but I do know there is a number just not sure what it is for that baler. The NH271 I have is one that was pulled out of a fence row and I got it back up and running just by using what I had learned form the old JD-14T I had
 
Try the WD40, if that doesn't work, try turning the bill hook tensioning spring adjustment nut about 1/8th of a turn.
 
My 273 has tied and not dropped for years.. always shedded and cleaned an maintained.. this year started dropping bale every so often. Looked at my knotters the one dropping knot looked in good shape the one that always tied was out of adjustment but tied.. I got my manual out and reset everything to book.. took it out and tied but missed two out of 100 which is two to many in my book.. so since all was set to book the only thing left was the twine holder bold..since I had messed with I started to tighten that sucker ever so little and tooke care of it.. NOW...

As mentioned already those arm knive bushings if left out will get grimmy and seize up wearing flat places on them causes alot of issues with knot dropping etc. Also on mine my original needles are at that point that they have worn the 1/4 groove where the twine goes through the hole.. I take them off and braze them up every couple years to solve that issue.. other than those few things and of course worn bill hooks etc. by the book and it should tie with some minimal adjustments then.. OH one other is the bill hook swipe presure lever that has spring and nut should be adjusted to start with three threads showing then go from there.. according to book..

Good luck.. miss ties make long lonesome day in field..
 
WD40??? Use a water displacement liquid to do what?? That is what WD40 is and is not a lube as such but a water displacement formula.
 
See if the attached will help
a164389.jpg
 
WD40 is a silicone base water displacement formula and when they where making it it took them 40 tries to get it to do as they wanted it to. NO graphite in the stuff and the funny thing is if you read the can it does not even say what it is good for on the can. I so happened to look at 2 cans I have last night and noticed is said nothing about what it was good for just a bunch of cautions etc on the can
 
It displaces water and contains hydrocarbons, ie oil. I had a neighbor once who was in his basement trying to dry condensate off a cold water pipe. He thought it was leaking, what can I say, he was a salesman. Can of WD40 in the tool box, his weight depressed the top so it started to spray. Near the pilot for the hot water heater. Three fire trucks showed up to put out the fire. Definitely not water based.
 
Note I said silicone based but is a water displacement formula made to displace water in something that is water soaked. The 2 letters W stand for WATER and the D stand for DISPLACEMENT. I did not say it was WATER based
 
(quoted from post at 20:27:35 06/29/17) I have heard something like that also but also been told that was not true
You can call it what you want, but the man said it works for him.
That is all that's important.

I use WD40 for a lot of things, but I also know it is going to evaporate in a week or so.
 
THanks for all of the suggestions. Here is where we are at:
Shined up the billhooks, removed any corrosion and burning. Double checked knives for sharpness.
Switched to a new ball of twine (was using a ball that had been in the baler from last year). I didn't know if this could impact anything but I figured it was worth a try.

Broke open a dozen bales, Tedder them out quick and raked, then baled. Seemed to work good.

Without being able to truly test, we will leave it here for now. Hopefully the problem is solved.

Next step, if we hang any up is to take that 1/4-1/8 turn off the billhook tension- easy field adjustment.

If still giving troubles then we will re-adjust the wiper arm but truly hoping that it was a matter of corrosion.

Without being able to truly test
 
Been following this discussion because the inboard knotter on my 268 has been giving issues for a while. Had to replace plunger bearing last year and did some adjustments, but still gave some weak knots that became burst bales more often than wanted! My more mechanically inclined farm equipment repairman nephew gave me a suggestion that might have helped - made up a quart of 1/2 burnt motor oil and 1/2 diesel fuel and poured some of it over the baling twine balls. Not conclusive, but it seemed to help - a little more ongoing lubrication for the knotter bill hooks, etc. I certainly seemed to have less bales to burst overall.
 

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