Mixman

Member
I am trying to make an estimate on the cost to repair a New Holland 411 discbine. I realize these have a bad reputation and I can see why. Is there anyone that sells aftermarket parts for these? Anyone with any advise on one of these would be appreciated.
 
Cost would depend on what's wrong with it.... It has a Kuhn bar. Sometimes Kuhn parts are cheaper; sometime not.

Rod
 
Very good now I know at least that much. I am going to remove the cutter bar and completely dismantle it to find out what all needs replaced. I am waiting on a service manual to take on this task. The cutterbar has been welded on and is leaking. What model Kuhn used this bar and were there other brands that also used it? Once again thanks for all or any help.
 
Probably going to cost more than it is worth. Needed a gearbox or parts to fix one a couple of years ago and that is what I found. Customer bought a new discbine.
 
If the cutter bar isn't bend it can be welded. Its just a big steel housing. NH may have discontinued the parts but just look up Kuhn N.A website and email them. I did, and I got a response with a parts diagram for my 408. The housing and lower plate ran $2,000 for my 408...
 
It's an FC300 bar. The Deere mowers of that generation used the same bar. I have a Deere 1460 variant... I've got two here that were cracked... the one I had lost as bearing and took a chunk out of the top of the bar... and a used bar I got to replace it also was cracked in the same place. I started grafting them together but haven't finished it yet...
If would almost be inclined to say that if the rest of your machine is worth anything... you might be better off in money and misery to just buy a new bar. Those mowers, around here... even in terrible condition... seldom trade below the price of a new bar. If you keep them away from rocks and keep oil in the bar they also work pretty good...

Rod
 
This is a lot of help. I haven't done much as I am waiting for a service manual before I dive into this. I have noticed that the timing is off on 3 of 5 units. Does anyone make shockpro type unit drive for these?
 
I never looked for anything but I doubt it.... the shafts usually shear in the bearing on that module if it hits something. All of the discs have modules under them... so if the timing is off, more than likely someone has just put the module gear in wrong. Take the disc off, remove the 4 bolts in the module, lift it out, re-time it... and drop it back in. Set the disc back on and check the timing before you bolt it down... That part of those bars is quite simple and straight forward. Fixing modest cracks in the bar is not a big deal either. Just brighten it up, make a SMALL bevel in the crack and weld with a 7018, 3/32" rod. The bar is just a box form. The only seals are on the module bolt holes and the bearings. That would include all of the intermediate gears............. Disassembly of that bar, when it comes to those intermediates.... is NOT EASY! I still have to get mine apart and honestly haven't figured it out yet how to get those intermediates out without destroying them. So if you can remove the bar and get the bottom guard off of it so you can fully inspect it for cracks... I'd go that route rather than trying to disassemble it fully...

Rod
 
I do a fair job welding but I usually have a real pro do this kind of work . I just talked to such a pro and he said he can remove all the old weld with a scaling tool with his plasms cutter and start over so I think the bar should be okay with that. Now I need to make sure the gear box is good. Where is the override clutch on these? I'm sure there must be one. I really appreciate all the help you are giving!! I will know more once the bar is off and apart.
 
Not sure where the slip clutch on the NH is. The Deere and Kuhn both have it on the tongue where the flex shaft goes to the main gearbox. This is where things get murky because Kuhn, Deere and NH all had their variations on how the bar was driven, the frames, etc.

Rod
 
Not sure where the slip clutch on the NH is. The Deere and Kuhn both have it on the tongue where the flex shaft goes to the main gearbox. This is where things get murky because Kuhn, Deere and NH all had their variations on how the bar was driven, the frames, etc.
You should also be aware that not ALL bars are the same in these mowers. I believe that was more a generational change/serial number break than a difference between the brands... and it makes for a headache when trying to deal with a Kuhn dealer for parts. What I've found is that generally a complete module will change from bar to bar but the internals of the module itself may be different...

Rod
 
Have you had your bar off? I won't have a manual for a couple days yet and I thought if it wasn't too complicated you could guide me on its removal. I am rained out and would really like to be working on this.
 
Yeah... the bar is simply held in place by the 4 bolts in each end module. They're a bit longer and extend through the saddles. There's not much about that bar that requires a manual anyway.

Rod
 
I dropped the bar off as you described. I found 1 bad module and 2 sets of intermediates are trashed. I'm sure it is all related. I looked and am assuming the allen type bolts may be right and left thread. I see a module on ebay for $275.00. I thought about making an offer. I have no clue what parts are price wise. What all is included with a new bar?
 
As far as I know, all of the allen head bolts on the intermediate gears are right hand thread... but again, I've only gotten one out on mine so far...
The module price sounds about right. The only suggestion I can make to you on parts is to price around. I actually found the NH dealer to be the cheapest on some o-rings I bought for mine a while back... and Kuhn the most expensive. One other thing to keep in mind is that some of the modules, depending on age, will use I think a 10mm bolt while the newer ones will use a 12 or 13mm bolt. So watch little details like that...

A new bar, through NH.. would probably come complete through whole goods. Seems to em that Deere wanted about 5 grand for that. NH is no doubt similar.

Rod
 
Your input has been priceless. I will make some calls in the morning Did you have much trouble getting that bolt out?
 
YES! I ended up cutting the nut off the bottom. Those rings you see that require a special tool like an angle grinder tool are actually a nut... about an inch deep. They are TIGHT. A buddy of mine usually breaks 4-5 allen bits taking a bar apart...

Rod
 
I heated the bolt itself and let it cool and then I heated the nut and got the 4 I needed out with out a problem. I used an impact with a 10mm allen on it
 
(quoted from post at 08:45:10 05/09/17) I do a fair job welding but I usually have a real pro do this kind of work . I just talked to such a pro and he said he can remove all the old weld with a scaling tool with his plasms cutter and start over so I think the bar should be okay with that. Now I need to make sure the gear box is good. Where is the override clutch on these? I'm sure there must be one. I really appreciate all the help you are giving!! I will know more once the bar is off and apart.

MIXMAN, the slip clutch on mine was up at the front. I think that it was at the first joint of the PTO shaft. Mine was a drawbar pull not a semi-mount. I don't think that you have said which hitch yours is.
 
Can you tell me a amount the bar holds in gear oil? The manual gives a starting point and then to tilt the bar etc. The jack is no longer with the machine and I wouldn't have a clue the length.
 
(quoted from post at 05:13:16 05/28/17) Can you tell me a amount the bar holds in gear oil? The manual gives a starting point and then to tilt the bar etc. The jack is no longer with the machine and I wouldn't have a clue the length.

You want to block the left end up about a foot. there is a drain hole at the very outer end edge, and the level hole between last and next to last disc on top. It doesn't hold much I would think two quarts at most. With the history I would want to put oil in run it to get it warmed up, drain and refill to level with new. Fillhole between first and second discs on top.
 

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