Loaders and hilly terrain

ratface

Member
In the market for a tractor and it seems every tractor I look at has a loader on it and most are not easy to get off. It would be handy to have one for chores etc. The main purpose of this tractor is to brush hog but will require maintaining narrow wooded paths up and down some very steep hillsides. All the steep paths are generally straight up and down with little lateral movement. One of them has some steep drop offs to one side. Every person I talk to who has a loader says it's an asset to steep terrain because you can put it down to stop, or use it as a third leg, or just to have more weight etc.

Everything I read about testing and personal experiences is the opposite, tests show it raises the center of gravity even if the loader is low, or that if one tire goes into a ditch it really has an adverse effect or that it can even cause flipping if it got caught in the dirt rolling down a hill.

So which is it, can you control a brush hog and a loader while mowing steep pathways safely if you go slow, stay on the path, and keep the loader raised but low enough so as not to hit stuff on the way up or down. I have seen a lot of bounce in the few I drove up just little embankments. Is a steady climb up or down going to get that loader a rocking some? What have been your experiences?
 

I have tractors with FEL and without in hilly terrain (Ozarks) and have not noticed any real differences.
 
A lot depends on what tractor it is mounted on. If it is on say a IH 806 which is a high tractor in the first place ya it might not be good but if it was on one like my Ford 841S it does help and the center of gravity is as low if not lower then it would be with out the loader. Big thing it most people do not understand how to use a loader and most will drive around with the bucket up so they look under it which is the wrong way to do it instead of having it just up high enough to get around. I have a friend who had a Kabota tractor with a loader on it. He did not have it 2 weeks and he laid it over on it side because he filled the bucket with rocks and then try to drive it on a hill side with the bucket all the way up. He got lucky he was able to jump clean of it and then pull it back up right with his pickup truck. I told him when he told me that Willie you never drive around with a loader any higher then you need it to get around and the only time the loader is up high is when your dumping a load and even then only go up as high as needed to clear what your dumping it in
 
Look really close at each loader. Many of them are quick-attach and with pulling a few pins and attaching supports in the right places they can be removed quite easily. The frame of the loader will stay attached to the tractor, the lift arms and bucket detach.
 
You may be right on the center of gravity, but if that worried, not a place to take any tractor.
 
Dave you have seen my place and yep many places I would never take a rubber tire tractor but a dozier is a different story
 
How difficult is it to re plumb hydraulic lines into quick connect coupler systems, do you have to change the entire hose?
 
Most quick connect loaders use the same common hose quick connect you use with things like round balers etc. Have a JD 1020 in the shop right now wit ha quick connect loader or should I say did have the loader till we popped it off so I could rebuild the engine etc.
 
David,
I agree with you. An inexperienced driver with a "new" tractor, loader and bushhog going straight up and down a steep hillside is not going to end well.

Ratface, before you start up that hill, call the EMTs so they are already at your place with the back door open and motor running.
LA in WI
 
I agree that there is a learning curve to this stuff. I remember being terrified with the 8N and brushhog when the tractor would die out going up hill. I learned how to drop that cutter and catch a small tree going down hill to stop the tractor by wedging the cutter against it until I could restart in neutral again. Then advanced to rolling backwards a little at a time back down the hill by manipulating the clutch and using the hog as a brake. Do you learn the same kind of stuff with a front end loader?
 
More of a compact tractor with 4wd, good brakes, loaded rear tires,and certainly live pto is what you need? Roll bar.

The loader shouldn't matter much, the operator is the thing.... Go slow, keep the bucket down very close to the ground.

If it's worse than that, no business having a tractor there in the first place.

So - the loader balances out the bush hog. Without a loader your tractor gets pretty light in the front.

4wd is so you have more brakes, not more traction. Both axles will help brake when in 4wd.

Fluid in the rear tires puts the weight down low, counterbalances the loader. Good CC solution or beet solution, none of that lightweight antifreeze.

Live pto so you can put the mower in or out of gear without bothering the clutch.

Roll bar - use the seat belt - in case you whoops.

You can set the rear wheels out wider for better stability.

Paul

Paul
 
On a steep wooded path a loader would be better than no ballast at all, but they have some drawbacks. A loader bucket extends the front of the tractor enough to limit maneuverability in tight spaces. If the loader bucket is very large it can really restrict your visibility ahead, unless the bucket is raised to an unsafe height.

If the pathways are too steep to mow safely should you be driving on them? Erosion along wheel paths can become a problem on steep trails.
 
Very good points Paul. I've been going up these hills in an 8N with lousy brakes, no live PTO, and never knowing if it was going to make it all the way up. On top of that it has started coming out of gear on the way down. Learning some things here, like your point about the added braking with another drive axle and the visibility factor of a loader. never would have thought of those points. My budget is limited to a used machine but it still will be a huge improvement over my old death trap which is going to stay on flat ground from now on.
 
If you don't have 4WD, a loader on a small tractor is useless, except in a feed lot. The weight of the loader and load takes the weight off the rears and you can't back up AND you lose traction going down hill. Keep the tractor in 4WD as much as possible so you have 4 wheel brakes. But, keep in mind that if you have good traction and the fronts can't slip a little, you can tear up the front gears. In 4WD the fronts go faster than the rears so you can steer.

Having said all that, I wouldn't buy a <100 HP tractor without 4WD and a loader. The new loaders are not hard to take off but they are so useful.... why would you. On a side hill, keep the bucket as low as possible and it will not change the center of gravity. A loader makes the tractor a lot longer.... be careful especially when backing up.

Bill
 

Putting a loader down to stop or as a "third leg are both new to me, and I can't imagine either being in any tractor or loader mfg.'s owners manual. Absolute Hogwash! As others have said ADEQUATE ballast is the key. If I were in your situation as you describe, I would load the rears with CaCl, and probably add wheel weights as well.
 
(quoted from post at 23:42:49 02/10/17)
[b:8855853ee1]Putting a loader down to stop or as a "third leg are both new to me,[/b:8855853ee1] and I can't imagine either being in any tractor or loader mfg.'s owners manual. [b:8855853ee1]Absolute Hogwash![/b:8855853ee1] As others have said ADEQUATE ballast is the key. If I were in your situation as you describe, I would load the rears with CaCl, and probably add wheel weights as well.

You may not have heard of it and think it is Hogwash BUT when you have a big load going up hill and the tractor jumps out of gear and the brakes wont hold you, dropping the loader bucket is a welcome Hogwash as it will help slow you if not stop you completely.
One mans Hogwash is another mans saving grace.
 
I agree with you I have a mountain on my place and I always go up with a loader tractor with the bucket low to the ground almost impossible to rear up that way and when coming down always keep the loader bucket low to stop me if needed.And if the tractor is a gear jumper I'm not using it for that anyway.Also most time put a blade on the rear it'll slow the tractor down either way.I'll drag firewood off the mountain pulling the whole tree the limbs will hold most any tractor back with a big tree.Do not cut the limbs off as the log will pass you on the way down(LOL)
 
If it was me,I would invest in a atv (4x4) (used) and add a pull behind brush cutter with independent motor.I have some steep hills and I'm scared to death to drive my 9n up n down them in fear of rollover.I'd have to keep extra underwear in my toolbox. Please be careful.
 
they can be scary, but used correctly be fine, keep them low tractor must have correct rear weight,mfwd really best on loader tractors, otherwise is the area you going really that important to mow. no grass is worth going to hospital or funeral home. common sense!!!!!
 
(quoted from post at 06:08:53 02/11/17)
(quoted from post at 23:42:49 02/10/17)
[b:5b2d578429]Putting a loader down to stop or as a "third leg are both new to me,[/b:5b2d578429] and I can't imagine either being in any tractor or loader mfg.'s owners manual. [b:5b2d578429]Absolute Hogwash![/b:5b2d578429] As others have said ADEQUATE ballast is the key. If I were in your situation as you describe, I would load the rears with CaCl, and probably add wheel weights as well.

You may not have heard of it and think it is Hogwash BUT when you have a big load going up hill and the tractor jumps out of gear and the brakes wont hold you, dropping the loader bucket is a welcome Hogwash as it will help slow you if not stop you completely.
One mans Hogwash is another mans saving grace.

From my own personal experience, a bucket that is curled back provides negligible friction, while if it is curled forward and digs in, unless you are barely moving, well, you can be in training for the mechanized pole vault.
 
You may not have heard of it and think it is Hogwash BUT when you have a big load going up hill and the tractor jumps out of gear and the brakes wont hold you, dropping the loader bucket is a welcome Hogwash as it will help slow you if not stop you completely.
One mans Hogwash is another mans saving grace.[/quote]

Well I don't have a race tractor that will go fast enough to flip over frontwards by digging the bucket in. So I will give in to your vast personal experience. Although I still maintain the if I was being pulled backwards down a grade by a load I could drop my bucket and help myself stay in control and stop. Just my experience. As Forrest Says that is all I have to say about that.
 
A loader is not going to do anything positive to improve stability or handling of any tractor. It's a pure hinderance in my opinion. If you're lookin at 2WD tractors I'd spend my time and money on good rear tires, good brakes and some suitcase weight for the front. If you need a loader for other reasons... then I guess you work around it the same as everyone else does... but it's not a positive for working in steep rugged terrain.

Rod
 
I bought this 1490 on Sunday, so it would be with this tractor and the terrain in the pictures, I don't think the pictures do the incline justice, On one of them you can see the horizon of an adjacent hill so you are pretty high up there. It' a great sled ride down in the winter. I've been doing this with an 8n without live pto, with lousy brakes, that sometimes pops out of gear and sometimes just refuses to make it all the way up without dying at least once. Is this Case 1490 with the loader more dangerous that that? At 83 horse it should not die out pulling the hog. It would be a small 5 foot rhino SE5 bush hog. I'm sure the loader weighs more than the hog however. I have already walked the path and determined I have to cut some brush out at the top to give me enough room to make the turn back. I generally go up the path that has my dog on it because it is a bit less steep than the other path which I use as the down side return.
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That is fairly steep.... I'd dispose of the loader if possible. It looks like some type of Q/A? My worry would be sliding down the hill forwards. Once you go over the top you're committed to it, for better or worse. If you try to stop,at best you're going to slide. Even without the loader that could be dicey enough.

Rod
 
(quoted from post at 18:45:21 02/13/17) I bought this 1490 on Sunday, so it would be with this tractor and the terrain in the pictures, I don't think the pictures do the incline justice, On one of them you can see the horizon of an adjacent hill so you are pretty high up there. It' a great sled ride down in the winter. I've been doing this with an 8n without live pto, with lousy brakes, that sometimes pops out of gear and sometimes just refuses to make it all the way up without dying at least once. Is this Case 1490 with the loader more dangerous that that? 31.jpg[/img]

I would only drive up / back down on a dry day if it's that steep.

You can use the FEL as a brake, but you won't have any steering if you are still sliding.
 
It would seem obvious but which direction is the most dangerous , going up or coming down. I'm going to learn how to ditch the loader regardless, I have to do some plumbing on the hoses. As far as I can see the loader has four pins holding it on.
 

I wish that I had kept my 1490. Be sure to release the PTO clutch after engaging or disengaging your implement. Better yet in order to be sure that you do, make it a practice to never release the thumb button.
 
You are going to want a few hundred pounds of cast iron on each wheel or you will get in trouble. It is almost impossible to back up a hill without it and loader on.
 
Driving down would scare me the most... Considerable weight shifts forward and any attempt to stop shifts more forward so you have no grip on the only wheels that could stop you.
I run on ground just as steep and probably worse. It's not a big deal if you use some common sense... keep the rear ballasted heavy, the front adequately ballasted and decent tires and brakes.

Rod
 

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