NH and JD Twine Knotter Question

Bill VA

Well-known Member
Would I be correct in assuming the knotter on a New Holland or John Deere baler never sees the final twine tension of the bale is it compressed when the knot is tied by the plunger - knot tied and pushed off the bill hook, clear of the knotter?

If the answer to that is YES - then the only limit on how tight one can literally tie a square bale is the strength of the twine or knot - right?

Reason I ask is - on our new to us JD 348 baler, will make a bale so tight that it will put a crease down the bale under the string if we crank it down. Don't want to damage knotters from a tight bale. We could probably crank it down until will break the string or knot every bale.

On the other hand, I've read that many knotter problems are caused by twine (box?) tension or is it to tight of a bale as it is being tied? If you are baling with the strings super tight - can/does this have the potential to cause tying problems?

Help me understand the relationship (if any) between a super tight bale and knotter issues.

Thanks!
Bill
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Twine isn't very tight on bale when tying cycle is completed but as bale is pushed out of bale case twine gets tighter on the bale. Consider how high above the actual bale the knot is formed on the billhook.
 
Bill,

As you stated, the twine is not real tight around the bale when the knot is made, and then as the knot releases and the bale relaxes, it tightens the twine around the bale. On my NH273 baler, the tension on the twine around the bale is a function of how tight the bale is in the chute, beyond the knotter assembly. There are two cranks on the chute that adjust that tension. Increase tension in the chute results in tight twine on the bale. Decrease tension in the chute results in looser twine on the bale.

I make minor adjustments to the chute tension nearly every time I bale. Dry hay doesn't compress as much as damper hay, so the bale tension varies depending on the hay that I'm baling at any particular time.

At least, that's been my experience.

Tom in TN
 
That's why knife arm adjustments need to be checked.As the bale is being formed there's a lot of side load on that knife arm bushing which as that wears needs to be compensated for through periodic checks and adjustment of knife arm.Especially knife arm to billhook clearance as the billhook is rotating.As bale is being formed twine over the top of the bale is pretty tight where it's held by twine holder and goes around knife arm.

Paul
 
The tension on the twine that will make knotter problems comes from how hard it is to pull from the box with the grip on twine from knotter as too much the knotter cannot pull it and not enough the knotter pulls it to fast to stay in place.
 
That happens if once you have a picture loaded and you then hit the back button to ad something else you forgot so it in turns adds another picture to the system for some odd reason.
 
I have rode a good many hay balers trying to figure out knotter problems and also saved a good many bales by hand tieing the bale when the knot was missed because of the slack in the twine. Made it a pain in the back sides to bale much hay but in doing so many times one can figure out why the knottter is not making a knot
 
The hay is compressed in the bale chamber. At that point the twines are loose. The tensioner on the twine box just keeps the slack out of the twines between there and the knotters. The knot is pulled tight as it is stripped off the bill just before the twines are cut. The bills must hold them tight enough to pull the knot tight.
 
Yes, the only real tension on the knotter is the twine tension applied on the twine at the tensioner on the twine can... As the bale is forced out of the chamber it expands placing final tension on the strings. Basic twine tension is something around 5# if I remember correctly.. It's just enough to keep the twine from bouncing around and snug when the knot is being formed/cut.

Rod
 
I can bale as heavy as I want with my 273 but what would be the point. Most folks dont really know what a bale weight is when they purchase.. I had a customer once that wanted 85 lb bales. I told him can do but after loading a few of those he decided the 50-60 would be fine.. LOL

Most folks would be shot after loading a few 85 lb bales... They figure though that the heavier the bale the more hay they will get for their dollars.

For me the 50-60 range works the best for me and the baler in that I get a good tight bale that I can stack however high I want and while walking on stack it doesnt wiggle around and I can get a hand under the strings fairly easy to lift and throw. Oh and also the stack stays nice and straight and doesnt fall..

I know of some that think by making heavier bales puts a strain on the plunger/baler having to push the wad through the machine.. I can agree with that also...
 
I still remember bucking those 85lbs plus bales when I was a kid that did not weight much if any more then the bale did. Now days I make bales in the 35-40lbs range and will never go heavier but then my doctor says nothing over 35 lbs so I try to listen to him most of the time. Plus I run a fence line baler that I brought back to life so I figure the lighter bales is less stress on it
 
Twine tension at the knotter twine discs is far more dependent on bale tension, hay texture, and hay moisture than twine box tension. As the bale is formed, the #1 twine has to get dragged around the back end of the bale being formed. The amount of force that requires varies greatly based on the noted variables.
 
You will not damage knotters from a tight bale.

Knot strength is about half of the tensile strength of twine. If twine is going to break, it should break at the base of the know.
 
Yep I see kids now days that say I buy a bag of dog food and get help with it to my car. 50 pound bag and they grab it out of the cart in the store and carry it to the car. I tell then to use the cart till they get to the car and some ask me why and I say well do you want to have to ask for help when you get to be my age.. Makes some of then stop and think about it. I do the same thing with many heavy in stores instead of putting them up on the counter I leave them in the cart and they scan them in the cart of punch it into the computer so that saves them a few pound of lifting over a day time which if you think about it a person in a store can move a ton of more every day which adds up over time
 
When I bought my Oliver baler it was set up to bale 80-90 lb bales I didn't pay much attention until I went to load them you can bet they got cut back a whole lot the next time
I baled with it.
 

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