Sickle Mower troubleshooting, bound up

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Member
Good morning,

I got my old IH sickle mower working and cut several acres of hay with it. It worked great.... until I ran into some very heavy grass with it. The slip clutch started slipping, I stopped the tractor, cleared out the grass by hand (not the first time I'd done that) and drove the tractor into a clear area which had already been mowed and raked. When I engaged the PTO, the slip clutch started slipping again....

The bar is tightly bound up. I have disconnected the pitman arm and the gearbox and arm and pto shaft turn easily by hand. The sickle won't move. I pulled off the hold downs closest to the pitman and that lets the bar move, but not easily.

There's nothing jammed up under the cutter, nothing is visibly bent or broken... it just won't move past a certain point.

There is an elaborate mechanism attached to the bar and the lift lever which I'm afraid I do not understand and therefore don't know how to troubleshoot.

I've searched all over (over an hour of googling now...) and searched for pictures and diagrams, no luck. I'm not certain of the model, some say 25v, some 27v, others say, no, not either of those...

Any suggestions much appreciated.

Thanks.

John
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Might be dirt built up on the underside of the sickle. After I removed the pitman, I've driven the sickle out with a 2X4 and a big hammer.
 

Thanks. I can get it out, just by prying a bit on the ball the pitman attaches to, then once it is loose it slides right out. The trouble is once it is almost back in again it binds up and doesn't want to seat far enough for the pitman to reach the ball, if I tap it in there it is too tight and is bound up. I took the hold down and the top guide off at the pitman end and that didn't help. I can't tell what it is binding on. Is the "sled" foot a separate piece from the bar? It looks like it is all one piece but if two pieces, it could somehow be out of alignment...

Also, what [i:30ae1afdcd]does[/i:30ae1afdcd] that mechanism on the left side of the picture do? The part that cams against a pair of big springs when the lift arm is engaged...
 
If your talking about the part on the end of the sickle bar it is the bar lock.

What you have looks a lot like the 16A that is used on the Farmall A. Pull the bar out and make sure it is straight both ways if it is bent just a little it can and will bind up.

I have one of those sickle mower on my BA.
 
The cutterbar (the thin metal strap that holds the knife sections) has to be binding somewhere. I doubt if the trouble is with the lift mechanism. Take the cutterbar completely out - it should slide out freely. The ball end should come out first, and there should be enough room under the mower for it. You may have to pick the mower up a little. It should come out easily without removing the hold-down clips. You might have to tap it a little, but it should not take much. If it does, something is binding it.
Check all of the hold down clips to make sure nothing is wedged under them, or that one is bent and causing the problem.
Check the rivets that hold the knife sections on the bar to make sure one hasn't partially come out.
Check the rock guards (the pointy teeth) to make sure one is not bent. If so, an appropriately sized piece of pipe about a foot or so long makes a good straightening tool.
Some rock guards have a separate bottom plate under the knife that snaps into place. Check to see if one has come loose and is causing the bind.
Some mowers have some thin shims under the knife bar as wear plates. I've never seen it, but I suppose one could come loose and be causing the bind.
These thin shims provide a way to adjust the whole cutterbar / knife section up or down relative to the rock guards, and can be replaced when they wear down to the point that they let the cutterbar drop so low that the knife sections bind against the rock guards
Some mowers have a special end knife section with double teeth, and a special adjustable plate at the end of the bar that provides a surface for that end knife section to cut against. If it has come loose, it can bind things up.
When you get the cutterbar out, check it carefully for any bends. It never hurts to have a spare.
This list is about all there is to the cutterbar assembly, it pretty much has to be one of these things. I started mowing with a Farmall cub with a sickle bar almost 50 years ago. As I recall, you could swap out the whole cutterbar in a few minutes with no tools.
 
If it goes back in almost all the way, it has to be a problem in the bar assembly near the outer end, or a problem with the cutter bar near the ball end. On my JD mower, the shims at the end of the bar to adjust the cutterbar height are only about .020" thick, so it doesn't take much to cause a problem. you can make some good shims from an aluminum beer can.
When you say sled foot, I assume you mean the big pointed plate at the very end of the bar. Yes, it is separate, and there are also shims you install with it to get the hole that the cutterbar passes through lined up correctly. You can pry the cutterbar up or down with a screwdriver while someone else pushes the cutterbar in to see if this is the problem. DON'T use your fingers unless you have some extras.
But when you ask about the mechanism on the left side, you're going to have to be more specific. There are springs that support the whole assembly, so that all of the weight is not on the ground. They allow the whole mower to better follow the ground contour, and also pick the outer end up higher when you pick up the mower. These springs must be adjusted properly to work as intended. And your mower may have a break-away feature if you hit an obstacle, so there are some springs involved there also.
Despite being a pretty simple appearing piece of equipment, there are a lot of small adjustments on a sicklebar mower that need to be just right. A well adjusted mower is a pleasure to use. A poorly adjusted one is a nightmare. Consider getting a manual, it is money well spent.
 
Thanks to everyone. What a lot of great advice.

I'm afraid I expressed/explained a couple of things badly in my ignorance, so for the record... The trouble was at the "inboard" end of the bar, I was able to push the cutter bar out toward the end easily until it stopped with the ball against the first hold down. What I couldn't do was to get it to go full inboard past the extreme outboard reach of the Pitman arm.

I took the advice several of you gave me and removed the cutter bar entirely. In order to do that, I had to disassemble the inboard parts which hold the cutter bar on top of the fixed bar. Indeed, just as advised, I found shiny spots showing me where the rub was... and more to the point, found a nut had backed off and fallen off allowing the whole thing to rotate toward the rear.

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In this picture you can see how bolt 1 has almost fallen out and a triangular gap has opened up. (bolt 3 was loose, bolt 2 seemed to be holding it all together, all three bolts are the same kind and size)

So, I pulled all that apart and cleaned it up with a wire brush and am ready to re-assemble it... but, that one bolt is in very bad shape, and the rest are not much better. Here's what they look like.

41631.jpg


I checked with the local farm supply store and the Fastenall store, no luck. Anybody know what to call those bolts and where to get them?

Which brings me to this excellent piece of advice:

Consider getting a manual, it is money well spent.

I'd sure like to, but I still can't tell what this thing is. I almost bought a 25v manual (online), but noticed the picture on the front was not this mower. Any help positively identifying it would be great. Until this bolt came out, it worked beautifully, if a manual helps me keep it that way, it will, indeed, be money well spent.

Here are pictures of the whole mower for ID, and here's another guy wanting to identify one:

https://photos.yesterdaystractors.c...ify/c52728.jpg&w=identify&cc=3&s=

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Oh, and... I took a picture of the lift mechanism, and noticed a missing bolt there too. I put one in but I think it is supposed to have a special one too, a regular hex cap doesn't fit exactly.
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Thanks again, you all helped me make a lot of progress on this very quickly.
 
Those bolts are called PLOW bolts. Getting a lot harder to find them any more. My local Orchesln is selling out of them and will not get any back in due to slow sales. Many good tractor dealers still have them or can get them
 
Thanks for the follow up, it is appreciated when someone does this so we can all learn something from your problem.
As Old pointed out, these are called plow bolts, and a good tractor dealer should have them. My local JD dealer has nuts, bolts, tools, etc. in their showroom and they have a pretty good selection of plow bolts.
JD has a good website where you can view the parts diagrams for their equipment, I would suspect that Case / IH has the same. It's not a substitute for having a manual, but it should show if you are missing something on the lift mechanism.
Good luck
 
(quoted from post at 16:37:52 10/19/16)

41631.jpg


I checked with the local farm supply store and the Fastenall store, no luck. Anybody know what to call those bolts and where to get them?

These are "plow bolts", but not the common (#3 head) plow bolts that are available just about anywhere. They appear to be #4 head plow bolts. #4 plow bolts with a square head were also called square countersunk head plow bolts, and those with the rectangular head were called oblong countersunk head plow bolts by IH.

You can compare your bolts to these pictures I posted in this thread a couple of years back:

http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1156075&highlight=plow+bolts

The square-headed ones still have some availability from CIH. One bolt I priced a couple of years ago had a $20+ price tag (and the nut was extra $). There is some availability of the square-headed #4 plow bolts from a few hardware suppliers yet today. The oblong ones would be harder to find. I don't know if anyone other than IH used the oblong countersunk head bolts.

AG
 
(quoted from post at 13:35:27 10/19/16)
(quoted from post at 16:37:52 10/19/16)

41631.jpg


I checked with the local farm supply store and the Fastenall store, no luck. Anybody know what to call those bolts and where to get them?

These are "plow bolts", but not the common (#3 head) plow bolts that are available just about anywhere. They appear to be #4 head plow bolts. #4 plow bolts with a square head were also called square countersunk head plow bolts, and those with the rectangular head were called oblong countersunk head plow bolts by IH.

You can compare your bolts to these pictures I posted in this thread a couple of years back:

http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1156075&highlight=plow+bolts

The square-headed ones still have some availability from CIH. One bolt I priced a couple of years ago had a $20+ price tag (and the nut was extra $). There is some availability of the square-headed #4 plow bolts from a few hardware suppliers yet today. The oblong ones would be harder to find. I don't know if anyone other than IH used the oblong countersunk head bolts.

AG

Thanks, good info, and yes, the other thread is exactly it. I found the smaller rectangular headed ones at a local tractor dealer today, I got the impression they'd taken them off of something and thrown them in a box rather than throw them away. No luck on the #4 head plow bolts yet, but knowing what to call them is a step in the right direction.
 
Back when I found that Orscheln's was not going to stock them any more I picked up a good many that they had. Now I wish I had picked up 3 times what I did. Oh well many things from the past are getting hard to find any more
 
Those guards are very old and very worn out. The gap in guards is small, less than 3/16 for a reason. Yours look like 3/8 or more. in order to keep the grass from being pulled in, doubled over rather than cut cleanly on the outside edge. You build up a lot of resistance with all those plugged guards. That will cause failures on the next weak link, Bite the bullet and install new guards. You will say "Why didn't I do that 10 years ago."
 

Sounds like one or more of the guards is bent up and the blade is jamming against it. New guards as stated above is a good idea.

I don't know the model number of that mower. I think the old IH mower i had was a 25v and it did not have a gearbox. The pto shaft had a big pulley on the end and a heavy belt drove a smaller pulley which drove the pitman rod.

KEH
 
The mower looks like a model 25V if that helps to track down parts. We had one in mid 1940s and had the steel trailer wheel somewhat in line with the PTO drive. Later models changed the VEE frame configuration to align the wheel behind the inner shoe.
 
I thought I'd follow up again to finish the story and in case anyone else has similar problems.

I finally determined that this is a McCormick-Deering No. 25. I think someone in another thread told me, but in any event, that's what it is. I took the advice about buying a manual, and while I wish it were even better, it is still very useful.

I was able to buy new bolts form BW McNair and Sons, but I think they are almost out of them....

Rather than replace the knife sections I bought a new knife from Webb's, very helpful folks there.

I had a heck of a time getting the knife back in to the bar even after replacing the bolts and re-aligning everything. The manual doesn't discuss it, but it appears to me that you have to tighten bolt's # 1 and #3 first, then tighten #2. I went through several rounds of loosening and tightening them before I got it to line up properly.

I cut about 5 acres of hay with it yesterday and today and am pretty happy with the performance. I still don't have a grassboard rod or an inside shoe rod. I can see what the grassrod should be from the manual and will make one for it soon. The inside shoe rod is still a bit of a mystery, but I figure it must serve to push already cut grass to the left so it doesn't clog the mower...

Next step on the mower is to follow GordoSD's advice about replacing the guards... But first... tomorrow I work out how to setup and use my "new" McCormick 45 baler... Already bought the manual this time...
 

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