Disc cutter/discbine recommendations?

Hey Guys,
Looking to upgrade my hay cutter, I currently have a Galfre 6 foot drum cutter which I love, but I need more capacity. Have to cut down my cutting time. Looking for a 9' disc cutter or discbine, what are the most reliable models through the years? I love the drum cutter for it's simplicity of design, and it's pretty rugged, but again - capacity. Any recommendations on reliable used disc cutters/discbines?

I cut with a 5303 John Deere which is 55 hp on the pto. I'm thinking more than 9' would be too much for my tractor.

Thanks in advance,

- jhilyer

New or used? I bought a New Holland and a Vicon used. They both were junk,even though the New Holland was only two years old at the time. I bought a new Kuhn FC2860TLD with a flail conditioner last year. Fantastic machine. Hooked to my White 2-105 with the three speed Over/Under Hydraul Shift,I can cut more hay in a day than I had ever dared dream possible. Since Kuhn invented the disc mower and a lot of other companies used it and called their own,I have every confidence in the quality of it.

Don't think you'll be happy running a 9 footer (7 disc) on 55 PTO, but it would likely work if shaftdrive bed and you have appropriate ballast for 3pt model. Deere did make an older disc moco with flails that would run on 55 PTO HP. Most discbines ask for 60-65 PTO or more and that is just to get it turning, different story at speed in heavy crop.

I run a 5 disc (NH HM235), 42 PTO HP ran it, mowed 5 MPH easy, but taxed the tractor heavy. Run it on 64 PTO HP now, no comparison.

Mower itself has been trouble free really, mowed with it since it was new.

You'll run a 9' Kuhn OK with the power you have. It won't be super fast probably but should do it. We sometimes ran ours on a Ford 5000 or 5610 without problem. Weight on steep hills is a bigger issue. You don't have power enough to run a discbine so don't even think about that...

Rod

When I got tired of cleaning out and all the other problems with sickle bars I decided to get a DISC cutter. Not having the volume to support a new one, I shopped the used ones. I was unable to find one that didn't have brazing (crack repairs) on the bottom of the unit with oil leaking out.......Hmmmmm.

So I accidentally ran across DRUM mowers, which I didn't know existed, and read up on them. I too have a 6' and I am very happy with it. As you know, built tough, few moving parts, blades are bi directional, 100 for $25 and cuts great.......the little wind row it makes is to my liking too as my previous MOCOs made a WW also (yes I know you can turn the flap down and not make (much of one).

So sir, I wish you well in your search. I know that there are a lot of them out there getting lots of daily use, and surely lots of happy folks.

I don't recollect but I know that I saw a picture of a 3 drum, 9 footer somewhere.

When I was a kid we used to run a 10 ft trailed tarrup disc mower conditioner with an IH 674, so I think you be alright for horsepower... Reese make a 10 ft trailer drum mower, I think galfe do too, might be worth looking at.

All good advice guys! Thanks!

I got a newer new holland disc mower on a 60hp Ford 5000. Works nice, hp is just about perfect. Have and needed 3 weights on front, and it's a load side to side. Would think it would work on a 50hp tractor, but I would not want a lighter tractor!

My understanding is the segmented, drive shaft type are easier to deal with leaks, breaks, and age, as you can treat each segment as an individual cutter. The giant pan of oil with gears running from cutter to cutter work fine, but become a headache as they age, any gear goes out messes up everything across the bar, leaks happen more on that huge sealing pan, etc.

Only 3 or 4 companies make them; big name companies that relabel thrm have switched back and forth so know the brand and age to figure out what type you will find.....

Paul

I believe per Tractordata, your tractor's PTO is 56 hp-ish.

The JD 625 mower conditioner requires minimum 55 hp. It is available with flails and they just added their V10 steel on steel rollers as an option, as well as a wide swath kit. The cutterbar is a gear bed, but can be taken apart in modules vs a full length welded cutterbar. Most everything I read about JD's cutterbar is - it gives a very clean cut and is very rugged. An equal angle hitch is available to assist in chatter free PTO tight turns. It is an 8ft-2in cut mower. Some things JD get's right - IMHO, this is one of them.

The older New Idea 5209 was known for lower hp requirements. It is still being produced today, with improvements, as the MF 1359. It has rubber on rubber rollers or steel on steel rollers. There is no shear protection. The cutterbar is segmented similar to the JD, but uses short shafts with bevel gears to drive the cutter head. Each individual cutter head has it's own oil/grease reserve. The Deere cutterbar shares a common oil bath between it's spur gears.

Here is a quote from a PAMI report on the 5209:

"Average and peak PTO power requirements for the New
Idea 5209 were 38.2 hp (29 kW) and 52.9 hp (40 kW) respectively."

You have 56 pto hp.

A link to the report is below.

Another thing to consider for your tractor is the vertical static drawbar load. Per the manual it is 552 lbs. All of these mower conditioners have a tongue weight of 850ish lbs and up. 1,000ish lbs being what I see on most 9 ft models - and the JD625 too.

Interesting enough, the JD 5205 - which has the identical drawbar hitch as my JD5055d and your 5303 is rated for 1,225 lbs. Don't know if Deere had problems with the hitch assy breaking apart or ripping the lower end of the tranny off the tractor or it's just a CYA for safety - as these tractors are already light on the front end - without weights. The fulcrum effect of the equal angle hitch on the JD would make that 1,000 lbs be an even higher load on the drawbar. It seems like I read somewhere that a Cat 2 spec/standard requires the drawbar vertical static load to be something over 1,000 lbs - but I can't find that info at the moment.

If the limit on the drawbar weight is a show stopper, the way around it IMHO is to find a mower conditioner that mounts to the two lower lift arms. The only mower conditions that I know of are the Kuhn FC2860, which is available with flails, steel on steel rollers and rubber on rubber rollers or the Krone EasyCut 2801 CV - which is an impeller only machine. The downside is the Kuhn requires min of 67 hp and the Krone requires a min of 70 hp. Both of these machines have a spur gear bed drive.

IMHO - gear bed drives in mower conditioners use more hp to deliver power from the hp source to the cutterhead vs a shaft drive arrangement with bevel gears like the New Idea 5209. While the JD is a gear bed, I think it's lower hp is simply due to being about 1 ft narrower than a 9 ft machine.

How do I know all the above? I've got a JD 5055d that is 50ish PTO hp per it's Nebraska test at 540 PTO and am considering a disc mower conditioner. Just as you, my drawbar vertical load is limited and so is my hp. Before I buy a mower conditioner (if I buy one at all), I want it demo'd on my tractor and I am mashing JD now to tell me why a 5205, which is almost identical to my 5505d mechanically, 2.9L engine and 8/4 collar shift tranny has a drawbar rating of 1225 lbs vs my 500 lb limit.

Hp and demand. IMHO - it is relative. I had people roll their eyes at me when I bought our JD 348 baler, but it does fine - even with wagon in tow. Some said I need an 80+ hp tractor. That I get - if I'm using the thing to capacity. We'll probably never to do that, so our slower pace makes the baler manageable. The fastest we can go on our small, bumpy irregular shaped fields is about 4-4.5 mph. Anything faster than that and you need a seat belt, extra glue on the dentures and an open gate in case you can't make the turn. I read all the time about (and see on youtube) folks barreling down a field at 8 miles per hour and faster. THAT requires a lot of hp. Not sure 4-4.5 mph with an 8 or 9 ft mower conditioner will have such hp demands, even in heavy hay. But again, I'd have a demo before I would assume and shell out the $$$$'s.

FWIW - my interest in a mower conditioner is multifold. I want a simpler machine to maintain and repair than a haybine and I want to be able to cut anytime - regardless of the hour of the day, weather, hay lodged, etc., around the day job hours. So I'm thinking about one and studying every inch of them - like an exam.

Hope this helps.

YMMV

Bill
New Idea 5209 Report

The power required to run a discbine at 8 mph is not a whole long more than at 4 mph. Perhaps 10-15%. The biggest part of the draw is actually turning the bar... With your baler scenario you can easily run the baler with 35 hp if you want to drive slow enough but if you want to put 5" flakes in a bale you need a big horse in front. It's not quite the same thing...

I think you'll also find that when Deere states a 55 hp minimum requirement... that is a BARE minimum required to turn it. I have a tedder that they advertised as requiring 50 hp... and it works my 52 hp Ford 4000 extremely hard.
With discbine it's better to have a little more than a little less.... but if there is an upper limit spec'd it's worth respecting that too because the parts start flying if you go over it.

Rod

I bought a Kuhn GMD2850TL 9 ft trailed disc mower three years ago that I've pulled with my 52hp Ford 4000. I can mow in 6th gear at 6.5 mph with no problems. Kuhn rates the mower at 46 hp but fast cornering will push my tractor a little so take it for what it 's worth.
Still have my old Claas WM30 8 ft trailed drum mower that's going strong but parts are getting a little hard to find.

My MIL has a Kuhn GMD600 8 ft three point hitch that's a load on her Ford 5600 and a pain to hook up.

Vermeer's TM600 8 ft or TM700 9 ft are both nice compact trailed mowers.

I've been using trailed drum and disc mowers for 20 years, easy to hook up and not all that weight hanging off the side of the tractor, no way that I'd buy a three point hitch disc mower

Mr. Destroked, would you go to the trouble of posting a picture of your 8' Claas WM30 8 ft. drum?

Thanks,
Mark

"The power required to run a discbine at 8 mph is not a whole long more than at 4 mph. Perhaps 10-15%. The biggest part of the draw is actually turning the bar... "

When you say 10-15% you're referring to ground travel only? In my post when I refer to hp draw at 4 vs 8 mph, I'm saying much more hp is required at faster ground speed so the cutter bar can cut the higher volume of hay - same as driving your riding lawn mower in 12 inch grass at 4th gear vs 1st. Without more hp, it will choke.

"With your baler scenario you can easily run the baler with 35 hp if you want to drive slow enough but if you want to put 5" flakes in a bale you need a big horse in front. It's not quite the same thing..."

I agree 100%. With our hp, we will never realize the capacity of our JD348 baler, however, our goal was more flakes to a bale at a little faster ground speed (and reliability) vs our New Holland 68. Our horse hay customers really like the small flake bales, i.e. 1-1/2 to 2 inch flakes. But we do get around the field at a respectable speed. Next year, just for kicks, I'm going to put it on the MF50 for a few bales just to hear it grunt."

"I think you'll also find that when Deere states a 55 hp minimum requirement... that is a BARE minimum required to turn it."

I agree it is the minimum. However everything is relative. I was told you'd never run that 348 baler on 50hp. We're doing ok. Would my 50 hp run a JD625, I'd like a demo first. If the demo goes well and I can cut at 4ish mph in tall/thick first cutting (8ft-2in cut) working my tractor hard, but not abusing it, I'd buy one. Would 4 mph operation realize the capacity of the mower - no. Would 4 mph operation suit our needs - yes. Would a farmer who shelled out the $$$$$ for a JD625 and had exactly 55 PTO hp be ticked he couldn't run the 625 at 8-10 mph in his tall thick hay over his 150 acres - yes. I'd like to hear from JDSeller if he ever sold a 625 moco to a low hp customer and tell us how it worked out.

"I have a tedder that they advertised as requiring 50 hp... and it works my 52 hp Ford 4000 extremely hard."

What model Tedder are you running?

"With discbine it's better to have a little more than a little less.... but if there is an upper limit spec'd it's worth respecting that too because the parts start flying if you go over it."

I agree 100%

The point of my original post was to offer info regarding various disc mower conditioners I've been reading up on and suggest that 50-56 hp machines MIGHT run one to suit your needs, which includes a slower ground speed. Still I'd want a demo prior to buying one.

YMMV

Thanks!
Bill

The discbine thing... I have a 1460 Deere which uses the Kuhn FC300 bar. 9'9" cut. I run it sometimes with a TS90 at 77 hp. It runs it fine but will struggle on steep hills or wet ground. I really don't find the thickness of the stand makes much difference unless you get into short thick wire grass that we have in some places... that takes massive power to cut. Otherwise I don't find the power requirement is much changed between a 1.5 ton crop and a 2.5 ton crop. Wet ground and higher speed both take more power to deal with and wet crop takes more power to deal with.... I have a neighbor who went and bought a 411 NH which is basically the same mower as mine with red paint.... and he somehow managed to run it with a 995 Brown... that's like 55 horse. but I think that was at 2 mph and blowing black smoke the whole time. He only had ~10 ac to do so he got away with it.... but the Brown's time will come if he keeps that up. On the other end of that spectrum, when I run that mower on my 7710... then parts start falling off. But that's pushing a good deal more than 100 hp on the shaft...
We also ran a PZ230 for a few years on our 4000. That was with a conditioner... and the mower is 7'6". That is about as hard as I'd want to run a 50 hp tractor. The 55 hp Deere would have a bit easier time of that but that would be about the limit I think. If someone wanted to go with a 9' bar... then I think 50 was the minimum for a straight bar Kuhn GMD77 and about 65 with a conditioner in something like a 1327 Deere.

My tedder is a 6 rotor Frontier. TD2427 or something like that. It's a repainted Pequea...

Rod