New Holland Super Hayliner 68

Ron Lines

Member
I bought a NH Super Hayliner 68 yesterday and seems to work as long as I'm not going downhill on a slight slope. It bales great going uphill (I'm in Virginia with the rocks and hills). If I try and bale downhill on a slight grade, the plunger really starts knocking and after about 5-10 feet, it shears the shear bolt every time. When reaching the end of a slight uphill bale, I have to kill the pto and travel down to the bottom and start up another winrow. Any idea what is getting torqued when I try and bale downhill. This grade is not much of a grade at all but it is slightly downhill. I've burned up 16 shear bolts getting this figured out to this point.
Could it be that the oak runners on the plunger are worn? Can they be replaces if so.

Thanks!
 
Going down hill sounds to me like the needle brake on the knitters needs tightened. Gravity coupled with bumps might make the needle
carriage to fall forward, actuating the plunger stop. When it comes into the bale chamber, you'll break the flywheel bolt every time. The
knocking is likely the brake getting close and the plunger tapping it, until it's full in and - bam, the plunger stops and the FW bolt shears.

The wood slides can be replaced. It's a good idea to pull the plunger for an inspection anyway.

Get a manual if you don't have one. With credit card, you can download a PDF manual from New Holland. Also, they have free printable
exploded parts lists on their parts site.

The model 68 is a fine baler.

Good luck,
Bill
 
Thanks Bill. You are a genius. I had ordered and downloaded the owners manual and while I was waiting for a response, I read on page 13 about the Needle Safety Latch. And I had the same thought but you have certainly confirmed it! The actual latch itself looks like it has had a few bumps on the head since there's a 'hammered metal' look to the surface that enters the bale chamber. There is a spring on that latch as well. I'll adjust it, I bet it is bouncing just enough to shear the shear bolts.

I looks like you remove the plunger through the rear of the bale chamber. It also looks like there are 4 metal strips that need to be removed in order for the plunger to slide past them. Can you tell me what to look for as far as wear is concerned? I live in Virginia and have plenty of oak on this place that I could replace the slide blocks with but I don't know the original dimensions to cut for it. Are the blocks (4 or them?) expensive from NH? How about the knives? There are 2? Can they be sharpened? It looks like they are a bag of loot from NH. I really like this baler, it really swallows a lot of hay, good design. I bet when I get the needle safety latch adjusted, all will be good.

Thanks
Ron Lines SW Virginia
"Out where the Hoot Owls make love to the Chickens.."



(quoted from post at 16:50:51 09/05/16) Going down hill sounds to me like the needle brake on the knitters needs tightened. Gravity coupled with bumps might make the needle
carriage to fall forward, actuating the plunger stop. When it comes into the bale chamber, you'll break the flywheel bolt every time. The
knocking is likely the brake getting close and the plunger tapping it, until it's full in and - bam, the plunger stops and the FW bolt shears.

The wood slides can be replaced. It's a good idea to pull the plunger for an inspection anyway.

Get a manual if you don't have one. With credit card, you can download a PDF manual from New Holland. Also, they have free printable
exploded parts lists on their parts site.

The model 68 is a fine baler.

Good luck,
Bill
 
Bill, I have another question: With no hay in the chamber at all, (I have cleared it) can I run the baler and slowly and work the trip latch to make it tie? I can't visualize what the twine will do with no bale of hay in the chamber. I'd like to remove some of the twine that appear to be trapped between discs or something near the bilhook and get them cleaned up. Can I run the baler and get this to happen? I really don't know what I'm doing yet?

Many Thanks
 
It will not tie right without hay in the chamber to hold the twine tight along the top of the chamber. When you get your manual, clean out all hay and twine; and run it by hand(turning the flywheel by hand) through a few knotter cycles. You can check and adjust everything to spec. You can hold the flywheel in place while turning it by hand with a wooden wedge driven between the flywheel and baler frame.

There is a good video on youtube on the knotters. It was made years ago by New Holland. It has all of the parts painted different colors, has slow motion, etc.

Also, when the needles are in the 'home' position, the plunger safety stop should be in it's slot, flush with the baler frame. A neighbor had a 273 doing similar to yours last year. The stop was hanging out enough to catch and shear bolt under certain conditions. A little adjusting, cured that problem. The needles were not vibrating out of 'home', just the stop itself out of adjustment.

Garry
 
A lot of good information Garry. Many thanks for that. I run the baler by hand and see what the latch is doing. I did look at the rod (strap steel) and it has a couple of bolts that need to be loosened so the adjustment can be made. I can see the need for the latch so you don't break those expensive needles. It can cause other problems however. All in all, this old baler works fine and I bet it hums right along when that adjustment is taken care of.

Thanks again,
Ron Lines, Lebanon, VA

PS Can you speak a bit about what to look for in terms of wear when I pull the plunger out for inspection? If I knew the factory dimensions of the oak glide rails, I'd make my own and put them in new. It is truly amazing that oak can stand up to that kind intense sliding and hold up. Amazing.
 

Ron, buy one slide and either make or have made 4 identical slides from a good hardwood like maple, oak, locust or some other type of wood that will burnish to a good finish. Save the factory one for a pattern!

Another possibility on the flywheel shear bolt problem is a worn flywheel bushing or shear bolt bushing or both.
 
Thanks again Bret. I'll check those areas as well. My plunger has wooden slides bolted to angle-iron. There isn't any play in the plunger as I have pried on it a bit to check. It seems to be a very good fit so I'm wondering if I need to remove the plunger for inspection. Seems there would be a little play if there were slide wear. I didn't check side-to-side play but I will. That is also important I would think.
 
Here is a New Holland video of the knitters and how they work.

https://youtu.be/ZoB_1meRa9A

If you do a search for "NH68" you should find all the posts of mine with pics showing the plunger renew on my 68 baler - and other stuff too.
New Holland Knotters
 
Great info Bill, I'll look at this right away. Here might be an iffy question. My knotter assy is pretty filthy. Would you use a pressure washer on it to clean it up, grease it and check its operation? I'm tempted to but you know how that goes. We all have 'good ideas' that turn into nightmares sometimes...I want to avoid that.

Kindly,
Ron Lebanon, VA
 
Super 68 had wood slides. Can't recall all the differences, but they were minimal. One was a rope winch/pulley to allow the pick-up to be lifted
from the seat.

The S69 was essentially identical to the 68, but used roller bearings vs wood slides. While there was a 68 and a S68, there was no regular 69,
only S69. 99% sure a plunger from a S69 is a straight bolt up to a 68.

If you want some great reading, search the S69 and the late Hugh McKay (sp?). He baled 1,000's of squares with a S69 and I believe a
Farmall 300. Very impressive.

Bill
 
as Bill suggested adjust your brakes, also check the angle of the crank arm for the needles in the stowed position, it shows in the manual how to adjust the linkage as it helps to hold them in position,we bought a 273 that was supposed to be in operating condition that turned out not to be quiet so, anyway the first 200 bales for no reason it would break the flywheel shear bolt even though everything was adjusted according to the manual,i tightened up the brake adjusting bolts until the springs were compressed all the way down then backed them off just enough to give a little clearance between the spring coils,i figured that would be too tight but it was a starting point,400 bales later it hasn't broken another bolt and the brakes aren't getting hot,small square balers are a learning experience for sure just don't let it get the better of you.
 
Thank you gbs. Those tips are gems indeed. With all those on this forum who know the 68-69 baler, there's simply a wealth of knowledge here. Wish you all were here for a 1/2 day class on the S68. I could learn more in at time than I could in a few years of trial and error.

Kindly
 
(quoted from post at 11:44:22 09/06/16) Great info Bill, I'll look at this right away. Here might be an iffy question. My knotter assy is pretty filthy. Would you use a pressure washer on it to clean it up, grease it and check its operation? I'm tempted to but you know how that goes. We all have 'good ideas' that turn into nightmares sometimes...I want to avoid that.

Kindly,
Ron Lebanon, VA


Just use compressed air. You don't want to blow water into the knotters if you can help it. A paint brush or old broom and be used to clean off the heavy trash. Personally, I'd blow it off and start pumping grease to it and let the grease clean things out. Trip the knotter and hand roll the flywheel through as you grease it and that will get grease to all the surfaces on the knotter. Then wipe off the excess grease and leave it alone. Absolutely NO GREASE on the brake assy!!!!! Hit all the grease fittings and get some oil of some sort on the chains. I've used everything from drain oil to chainsaw bar and chain oil, just so they are lubed on a semi regular basis and not stiff or rusted. Check the oil int he main gear box and especially in the feeder drive gear box. That one can leak bad and you'll never know it. Then you have to tear the whole top half of the machine apart to fix it $$$. You can guess how I found this out.

Check for slide wear by getting the plunger near the shear plate. Then try prying the plunger sideways with a pry bar. If it slides away from the shear plate, it's worn. There are adjusters on the other side that can take up some wear. You can also see it it wants to move up and down, again there are adjusters. The knife wants to be real close to the shear plate, it's a scissors in essence. You can adjust the knife with shims or do it the easy way and adjust the shear plate which you can access from just below and to the right (looking from the rear) of the knotter. No one told me this and the manual didn't cover it, so I spent years farting around laying half inside the feed asty of the baler trying to shim the knife. Forget that! Shim the shear plate, much easier.

You can also lube the slides with oil. I open the crank arm cover and slobber oil all over the runways, top and bottom, a couple times a season. Drain oil seems to work fine for this.
 
Really good information Bret, thank you for your comments. Now that you have directed me to the proper location to inspect and adjust the plunger if needed, I think I'll take a RR tie and put it under the left tire. Then I'll crawl under the baler near the right side of the knotters and see what there is to see.

On another note, I did look at the adjustment on the needle saftey latch. The latch is adjusted by loosening two bolts and sliding the two pieces of strap steel either in or out to lengthen or shorten the travel distance of the latch. There are bolt slots in one of the pieces to make this possible. When I inspected mine, mine was pulled all the way together so I cannot shorten the latch travel any more. In this state, I think the latch is catching as I travel downhill since when I inspected the actual part of the latch that gets hit when it is activated, I see a lot of hammered steel on the crown of that latch. It has been hit quite a few times by the plunger. Could it be (and I can't get my brain to accept this) that lengthening the latch travel bar will stop the shear bolt shear? I haven't ran through the manual's adjustment procedure but I will.
I am a bit confused as to how to make the baler go into a tie cycle. I know I should put the trip arm all the way down and turn the flywheel in the direction of the arrow. Is there more to it than that?
Lastly, as you know, my trip arm and the wheel it runs on have knurled horizontal lines cut into the metal. On my trip arm, those knurled lines are almost gone and I think that is what is causing me to have bales of different lengths. I must not be reliable anymore and a bump can cause it to fall, tying the bale when it is too short. Is there a way to restore those cut-in lines to increase the friction between the trip arm and the roller it runs on?
 
(quoted from post at 08:45:49 09/07/16) Really good information Bret, thank you for your comments. Now that you have directed me to the proper location to inspect and adjust the plunger if needed, I think I'll take a RR tie and put it under the left tire. Then I'll crawl under the baler near the right side of the knotters and see what there is to see.

On another note, I did look at the adjustment on the needle saftey latch. The latch is adjusted by loosening two bolts and sliding the two pieces of strap steel either in or out to lengthen or shorten the travel distance of the latch. There are bolt slots in one of the pieces to make this possible. When I inspected mine, mine was pulled all the way together so I cannot shorten the latch travel any more. In this state, I think the latch is catching as I travel downhill since when I inspected the actual part of the latch that gets hit when it is activated, I see a lot of hammered steel on the crown of that latch. It has been hit quite a few times by the plunger. Could it be (and I can't get my brain to accept this) that lengthening the latch travel bar will stop the shear bolt shear? I haven't ran through the manual's adjustment procedure but I will.
I am a bit confused as to how to make the baler go into a tie cycle. I know I should put the trip arm all the way down and turn the flywheel in the direction of the arrow. Is there more to it than that?
Lastly, as you know, my trip arm and the wheel it runs on have knurled horizontal lines cut into the metal. On my trip arm, those knurled lines are almost gone and I think that is what is causing me to have bales of different lengths. I must not be reliable anymore and a bump can cause it to fall, tying the bale when it is too short. Is there a way to restore those cut-in lines to increase the friction between the trip arm and the roller it runs on?

Ron, the shear plate bolts are clearly visible at the rear of the bale chamber below the knotters and to the right. There a diagonal brace and your twine running down to the guide in that area. No need to crawl around at all. 3 nuts on a semi circle IIRC, sticking out from the right side on the OUTSIDE of the bale chamber. You can see the shear plate from the front of the pickup area- it's that semi circle plate the knife runs past.

On the knotter trip arm- yes, you can cut new grooves in the surface. I used a threading file, but you can pick up a knife edged Swiss type file and recut the grooves. A hacksaw blade would be much too wide a kerf. Just try to match whats there. And you can clean out the grooves on the roller part with carb cleaner and compressed air.
 
Thank you again Bret. I believe you are talking about the stationary shear plate. I'll look for that. Also, the knives on the plunger, isn't there one on each side or just one on the packing tine side of the plunger?
 
Hello Bret and Forum,
A couple of observations on my S68 NH. With nothing in the bale chamber and no twine in the needles, I started my PTO at idle and just watched the moving assemblies. I noticed when the trip lever is all the way down it is running normally, no tying etc. as it has gone through a tie cylcle. I'm not sure what lifts the trip arm back up but mine just sits there at the bottom after a tie cycle. BUT, I noticed as the knotter drive chain runs the wheel it is tied to, it ever so slightly catches something at the knotter coupling (where there are timing marks) and it quivers every plunger cycle. Almost like it wants to engage the needle yoke and knotter gearing but does not. Next cycle, it does the same thing. Ever so slightly bumping the knotters and the yoke assembly moves about 1/2" and the cycle repeats itself. Is this normal or should there be no attempt to tie at all?

Also, I have sissal twine in the baler that came with it. Can I use poly (orange) twine which looks better but may not work. I'm seeing frayed pieces of twine in the field about 2" long as if the knife that cuts it is too close to the bilhook. I'm not sure what the knife looks like but can it be adjusted so it doesn't fray the sisal twine? I have a few mis-ties I think due to this.

Lastly, when the baler is running slow and I'm observing. I push the trip arm down so I can watch the tie operation. Fascinating to say the least. When the tie cycle is over, I lift the trip arm and it immediately falls all the way down again. It this because my knurling on the trip arm and pulley is very faint or because a spring hasn't engaged to put tension on the trip arm and pull it against the pulley it rides in? When baling, it does make a few bales that are too short and I'm not getting consistent lengths over and over as I should. I suspect that a good jar in the field might cause the trip arm to fall. I might see if the pulley is available and replace it and file the trip arm to give is some grooves to run in as it should have.

Farming, growing alfalfa, baling it and feeding Angus cows is a lot of work for this old duffer. It's probably easier to rob banks and move to Florida... but then again, the neighbors would probably be unhappy with a NH S68 flower pot in my front yard.

Thanks in Advance!
 
Ron, there is only one knife and it's on the feed sides of the plunger.

The knotter trip arm should have a fairly large star shaped doohicky on the shaft that runs the little wheel that raises the arm. With no hay there the knotter arm will fall down, when theres a bale there the star wheel moves and raises the trip arm. Yes, you can use plastic. I gave up on sisal entirely and I have virtually zero knotter problem anymore. The twine knife can be sharpened, it's in the operators manual. You will always get a bit of cut twine on top of the bales as the baler works. Just the nature of the beast. It's the excess from the knot being formed and cut.

My 68 knotters and tine bale also give a slight movement as the plunger moves back and forth. I've tried, but I can't stop it entirely. I believe it's part of the plunger going back and forth and passing the workings of the knotter. I've got the bail rod out about as far as it can go due to wear on the parts. I'd need to make bushings to take up the wear and I may well do that. I'm hesitant to get the bail the additional 1/4" further back. I don't like messing with timing if things are working good. I did about 600 bales yesterday and had 2 missed knots when out of the whole lot. Pretty good for a 57 year old baler.

Yes, if the knurling is worn too much you'll get short bales. Like I said, a Swiss knife file or threading file will fix that right up and the little wheel (metering wheel I think it's called) is still available if it's rusted the teeth away. I make fairly short bales, about 28-30", because that's what my wife and the customer next door want. I very, very rarely see a bale that's off by more than an inch or 2 from the rest, so the fix I did on my baler with the threading file seems to have worked good.
 

I should note the 2 knots that missed yesterday were where I was in real light windrows and had just made a series of sharp turns. This baler has never liked light hay, it wants to have a full bale chamber ASAP. Take too long to form a bale and she throws a temper tantrum!
 
Thanks again Bret. Yes, I got to thinking about it and the star-shaped metering wheel does run the trip arm assembly. So that solves that. I am going to poly twine as well. It just looks stronger, not as thick and 'hairless' when compared to sisal. Much better and I'm glad I can use it in this baler.

Thanks for the confirmation about the cyclic shutter that seems to be normal as the baler plunger cycles in and out. Sure seems the knotter chain wants to drive the knotters to cut and tie. This doesn't happen however until the trip-arm travel is all the way up.

You loose me when referring to a bail rod. Where is that piece on the baler?

600 bales with 2 misses is extraordinary for that machine. You must be living right!
 
Mine does the same thing. Almost guaranteed. While you're talking about turning, is there a direction, left or right that one needs to always turn or can you turn (gently) in both directions? I'm thinking it should always be a right turn but I could be wrong.
 
Hello Bret and/or Forum:
Any tips on good parts supplier for the S68? Seems the standard ones are out in orbit. Baler Parts has a few items but not all. Also, I have noticed that the brass, globe-shaped bearing on the knife finger has flat spots in them. Is this ok to run with them like this? I suppose there is no way to replace just the globe-shaped bearing is there? The complete knife assembly is way high priced.

Believe it or not, the friction discs in the knotter protective clutch assembly are $76. Won't buy any of them at that price.

I would like to take the knife finger assemblies out and sharpen the knife. It looks like I have to remove the 2 bolts that hold the knotter assemblies to the bale chute have to be removed so I can hinge the knotter up and make room for the knife finger assembly to come out. It doesn't look like it will come out without moving the knotter up. Is this correct or is there a way?

Kindly, Ron Lines
 
(quoted from post at 12:10:49 09/08/16) Thanks again Bret. Yes, I got to thinking about it and the star-shaped metering wheel does run the trip arm assembly. So that solves that. I am going to poly twine as well. It just looks stronger, not as thick and 'hairless' when compared to sisal. Much better and I'm glad I can use it in this baler.

Thanks for the confirmation about the cyclic shutter that seems to be normal as the baler plunger cycles in and out. Sure seems the knotter chain wants to drive the knotters to cut and tie. This doesn't happen however until the trip-arm travel is all the way up.

You loose me when referring to a bail rod. Where is that piece on the baler?

600 bales with 2 misses is extraordinary for that machine. You must be living right!

Ron, I have clumsy, large fingers. What I had intended was to write "needle bail rod". IOW- the assy the twine needles are attached to, the large U shaped tube that swings, is called a needle bail by several people I've dealt with and the name stuck. NH calls it the "needle yoke". Theres a rod connected to the brake from the bail/yoke and that's what I was talking about.
 
(quoted from post at 12:14:03 09/08/16) Mine does the same thing. Almost guaranteed. While you're talking about turning, is there a direction, left or right that one needs to always turn or can you turn (gently) in both directions? I'm thinking it should always be a right turn but I could be wrong.

No. You turn whatever way you have to.
 
(quoted from post at 17:46:10 09/08/16) Hello Bret and/or Forum:
Any tips on good parts supplier for the S68? Seems the standard ones are out in orbit. Baler Parts has a few items but not all. Also, I have noticed that the brass, globe-shaped bearing on the knife finger has flat spots in them. Is this ok to run with them like this? I suppose there is no way to replace just the globe-shaped bearing is there? The complete knife assembly is way high priced.

Believe it or not, the friction discs in the knotter protective clutch assembly are $76. Won't buy any of them at that price.

I would like to take the knife finger assemblies out and sharpen the knife. It looks like I have to remove the 2 bolts that hold the knotter assemblies to the bale chute have to be removed so I can hinge the knotter up and make room for the knife finger assembly to come out. It doesn't look like it will come out without moving the knotter up. Is this correct or is there a way?

Kindly, Ron Lines

Everything is expensive these days. No special place to find aprts. Yeah, swing the knotter assy up and you can get at the knives.
 
Thanks for these replies Bret. Now I'm getting the hang of it. The bail/yoke is driven by the bail rod which is attached to the knotter shaft. That clears that up.
Spent most of the day cleaning the ole gal up yesterday Bret. Cleaned the knotters, the feeder tine area and twine roll area. You are right, I checked the tine feeder gearbox and it was low. So, I changed the midnight-black oil in it and added fresh 90w to it. I also drained the main gearbox and let her drip all night long. That oil was the worst I've ever seen. Heavy, heavy, black sludge that needed changing in the worst way. I bet it has never been changed. Refiled that with new 90W oil. Greased the entire machine and cut new groves in the trip bar. The trip bar was entirely smooth with no grooves visible at all. I've ordered the friction disc for it from Best Baler Parts and I'll install that when it arrives. While cleaning and adjusting, I noticed that one of the friction discs in the pickup slip-clutch was broken and a piece hanging out. I priced it for replacement. $76. For a fiber washer. Unbelievable.

While greasing, I noticed the cam follower bearing that rides on the knotter clutch was very worn. I can move the outside of the bearing with my fingers quite a bit. I priced that, $45. Then I took a flashlight and looked into the bale chamber. I see that the bale knife attached to the plunger is a good 1/2" from the shear plate. Not good. Looks like I'll pull that plunger and start making preparations to replace the maple slide blocks. I have to believe that are really worn since there is a piece of sheet metal on the front of the plunger that is dragging the bottom of the bale chamber. So, probably nothing left of the slides at this point. It looks like I'll order one and you suggested and cut my own. On this place there is Walnut, Cherry, Oak. Maple, Poplar and lots of Hickory. I have a mill up in my wood barn where I can cut lumber and we had a large maple fall in Jan. and it has been laying there until now. I'll go whack it up and drag its carcass up to the mill and cut some 3" slabs and fashion 4 slides from the one I (choke) buy from NH. I still think robbing banks is the way to go. If I get caught, hopefully they'll have an old baler rehab program I can join.
 
Looking for Cam Follower Stud bearings? I ran into this website that has quite a few priced all over the board. They have Stainless as well. I need on for my knotter clutch on my S68 NH.

Hope this helps someone someday: Here's the URL:
http://us.essentracomponents.com/en-US/bearings-power-transmission/bearings-accessories/rotary-bearings/cam-followers/cam-followers-stud-metal
 
"I looks like you remove the plunger through the rear of the bale chamber. It also looks like there are 4 metal strips that need to be
removed in order for the plunger to slide past them. Can you tell me what to look for as far as wear is concerned? I live in Virginia
and have plenty of oak on this place that I could replace the slide blocks with but I don't know the original dimensions to cut for it.
Are the blocks (4 or them?) expensive from NH? How about the knives? There are 2? Can they be sharpened? It looks like they are
a bag of loot from NH. I really like this baler, it really swallows a lot of hay, good design. I bet when I get the needle safety latch
adjusted, all will be good."

Biggest thing wrong with my wooden slides were - they were rotten. Looked literally like termites got in them. The baler set for
some 20 years in a barn before I bought it. The stationary knife on the bale chamber can be removed. If you do, it needs to be
filed or ground back to a 90 degree angle. The plunger knife can be removed - after you remove the plunger. Be warned that the
screws might be rusted in place. We had to weld nuts to them - between that and the heat of the weld, they came out.
Replacements from McMaster-Carr for a fraction of the price of New Holland. All obstacles, bolted or spring loaded need to be
out of the way before removing the plunger. Also check the plunger pitman against the plunger for a bit of slack. Mine had some
and you could hear it when the baler as working. Replace the bushing with a new one (press fit) and IMHO, it really helped.
 
"Lastly, as you know, my trip arm and the wheel it runs on have knurled horizontal lines cut into the metal. On my trip arm, those
knurled lines are almost gone and I think that is what is causing me to have bales of different lengths. I must not be reliable anymore
and a bump can cause it to fall, tying the bale when it is too short. Is there a way to restore those cut-in lines to increase the friction
between the trip arm and the roller it runs on?"

The trip arm will not have horizontal lines in it - unless it is a much newer baler. I thought the one on my 68 should have had them, so
I ordered a new one. No horizontal lines. The knurled wheel is another story. It needs the knurls, i.e. horizontal lines. I bought a
replacement wheel - one of the lower cost New Holland parts. Very easy/low cost upgrade. The new wheel went a long way towards
ending premature dropping/slipping of the trip arm.
a236909.jpg
 
"BUT, I noticed as the knotter drive chain runs the wheel it is tied to, it ever so slightly catches something at the knotter coupling
(where there are timing marks) and it quivers every plunger cycle. Almost like it wants to engage the needle yoke and knotter gearing
but does not. Next cycle, it does the same thing. Ever so slightly bumping the knotters and the yoke assembly moves about 1/2" and
the cycle repeats itself. Is this normal or should there be no attempt to tie at all?"

Don't know if this is applicable to your situation, but the chain sprocket on the knotter for my 68 was wobbly to some extent. It
looked like it wanted to trip the knotters (working from memory), but for sure, the chain appeared ready to jump off at any minute.
Turns out there is a bushing that is easily replaced. It is another low cost fix from New Holland.
a236910.jpg
 
You've had a lot of fun with your old baler Bill. I think I'll join you and do the same. I will pull the shear plate and get it squared up. In peering in the chamber, it appears to be rounded off. I can see the plunger knife through the feeder window. Looking at it from that side, mine has plow bolts with Allen hex sockets that show. From the other side, I suppose it's a nut but I'll have to wait and see. Is this what you ordered from McMaSter-Carr? Do you remember what item it was, size, length etc?
Their website has 1/2 million items...bet it's there somewhere.

Thanks Bill, Ron
 
This is a great tip. Never thought to look there but since I'm fixing the problems, might as well look into this one as well. I think I'll change it to be safe and finished with that possibility.

I did drain and refill both gearboxes. They had never been drained. You should have seen the BLACK, THICK, SLUDGE oil that came out....Goodness!

Since the knotter drive chain is always moving, I'm guessing that removing this chain (to get to the sprocket) will not affect baler timing. Is that correct? I sure need to know before I blindly go in end up with a baler that needs to be timed.

Lastly, do you know if the arm on the bale counter can be ordered. My counter works fine, but the arm on it is broken.

Thanks for the heads-up on this adventure Bill.
 
This is a great tip. Never thought to look there but since I'm fixing the problems, might as well look into this one as well. I think I'll change it to be safe and finished with that possibility.

Also, can you tell me if the maple slides are all the same? Is there a left-hand and right-hand, up or down or are they all the same?

I did drain and refill both gearboxes. They had never been drained. You should have seen the BLACK, THICK, SLUDGE oil that came out....Goodness!

Since the knotter drive chain is always moving, I'm guessing that removing this chain (to get to the sprocket) will not affect baler timing. Is that correct? I sure need to know before I blindly go in end up with a baler that needs to be timed.

Lastly, do you know if the arm on the bale counter can be ordered. My counter works fine, but the arm on it is broken.

Thanks for the heads-up on this adventure Bill.
 

Well done Bill! A picture is worth a thousand words as they say.

Ron, I believe you asked about the roller balls on the knotter having flats or being otherwise worn earlier. Yes, they are replaceable and they need to be in decent condition. You want to start looking in your area for a parts machine or a parts knotter assy. I was fortunate that a farmer friend gave me a parts knotter and I was able to rob the updated roller off it. IIRC it's an actual bearing type roller and not just a bushing. Or you can use a good old style and just peen the end over as the factory did. As long as it revolves freely and isn't full of flat spots (many used ones are) it's good to go. A bit of oil on them now and then seem to keep them working. The same guy also allowed me to copy his baler manual from a much later baler, a 315 or 320 IIRC, and it has a lot more info than my old 68 manual. And I'm very tempted to get this manual-https://external_link.com/new-holland-baler-knotters-service-manual.html Looks to be THE knotter manual for NH.

On your plunger knife, if you have a 1/2" gap then yeah, things are worn. There are slide adjusters on the baler you can try but I had to pull my plunger and renew the slides. If you do that then take the time to locate and loosen up the adjusters. They rust in place. Don't so like I did and try to heat one up to loosen it after you've made a few hundred bales. WAAAAYYY too much excitement!!! But it's a good way too find out that your old pressurized water fire extinguisher still works.....

Those allen headed plow bolts- You can't get them anymore, that I know of anyway, so try to get them out intact. The knife will come out with the plunger in the machine, buts it lots easier if it's out. The shear plate has a 90 degree edge and you want to follow the factory edge on the knife. Don't they to put a longer, shallower edge on the knife. It won't stay razor sharp no matter what, so just use the factory edge which is a very stout edge that will give good service for years as long as you don't try baling fence wire, staples, metal roofing of a Tee post. Again, you can guess how I learned this! The knife and shear plate want to just miss each other. I think the factory gap is supposed to be about 1/32". Let your new slides wear in for several hundred strokes before you make your final adjustment.

Slides are the same all around. Bale counters are available from a bunch of sources. I got mine at TSC. I never have found out where the factory location is though, so mine runs off the knotter trip arm. There is a piece of metal in the feeder opening that hangs down. I'm not sure what it's supposed to do, control hay flow I imagine, but it's supposed to be there. There is also a sheet metal cover on the side of the plunger that is supposed to be there. Mine wore in 2 some time back and it seems to work fine with out it.

Despite what Bill found, my trip arm definitely had horizontal grooves cut in it. They were very clear at the top of the working section that had never been used. Apparently no one ever saw the need to a 4 foot long bale! Anyway, NH might have done away with the grooves in later years, but at one time at least they had them.

On the fiber washer- you can buy material to make stuff like that from McMaster-Carr if you can figure out what it is. The $76.00 NH gets would probably buy you enough material to make 50 discs.
 


Well done Bill! A picture is worth a thousand words as they say.

Ron, I believe you asked about the roller balls on the knotter having flats or being otherwise worn earlier. Yes, they are replaceable and they need to be in decent condition. You want to start looking in your area for a parts machine or a parts knotter assy. I was fortunate that a farmer friend gave me a parts knotter and I was able to rob the updated roller off it. IIRC it's an actual bearing type roller and not just a bushing. Or you can use a good old style and just peen the end over as the factory did. As long as it revolves freely and isn't full of flat spots (many used ones are) it's good to go. A bit of oil on them now and then seem to keep them working. The same guy also allowed me to copy his baler manual from a much later baler, a 315 or 320 IIRC, and it has a lot more info than my old 68 manual. And I'm very tempted to get this manual-https://external_link.com/new-holland-baler-knotters-service-manual.html Looks to be THE knotter manual for NH.

On your plunger knife, if you have a 1/2" gap then yeah, things are worn. There are slide adjusters on the baler you can try but I had to pull my plunger and renew the slides. If you do that then take the time to locate and loosen up the adjusters. They rust in place. Don't so like I did and try to heat one up to loosen it after you've made a few hundred bales. WAAAAYYY too much excitement!!! But it's a good way too find out that your old pressurized water fire extinguisher still works.....

Those allen headed plow bolts- You can't get them anymore, that I know of anyway, so try to get them out intact. The knife will come out with the plunger in the machine, buts it lots easier if it's out. The shear plate has a 90 degree edge and you want to follow the factory edge on the knife. Don't they to put a longer, shallower edge on the knife. It won't stay razor sharp no matter what, so just use the factory edge which is a very stout edge that will give good service for years as long as you don't try baling fence wire, staples, metal roofing of a Tee post. Again, you can guess how I learned this! The knife and shear plate want to just miss each other. I think the factory gap is supposed to be about 1/32". Let your new slides wear in for several hundred strokes before you make your final adjustment.

Slides are the same all around. Bale counters are available from a bunch of sources. I got mine at TSC. I never have found out where the factory location is though, so mine runs off the knotter trip arm. There is a piece of metal in the feeder opening that hangs down. I'm not sure what it's supposed to do, control hay flow I imagine, but it's supposed to be there. There is also a sheet metal cover on the side of the plunger that is supposed to be there. Mine wore in 2 some time back and it seems to work fine with out it.

Despite what Bill found, my trip arm definitely had horizontal grooves cut in it. They were very clear at the top of the working section that had never been used. Apparently no one ever saw the need to a 4 foot long bale! Anyway, NH might have done away with the grooves in later years, but at one time at least they had them.

On the fiber washer- you can buy material to make stuff like that from McMaster-Carr if you can figure out what it is. The $76.00 NH gets would probably buy you enough material to make 50 discs.
 
There is no nut. I don't recall the part number, but it's essentially on the NH parts diagram via thread size. Mine, once installed, fit within a hair
of being totally flush, so I took a grinder and leveled them out with the knife body. Couldn't have been setting up more than a 64th of an inch,
but I wanted them smooth with the knife face so as not to hit the stationary knife.
 
If you remove the knotter drive chain, you will have to reset the location of the sprocket hash marks (I believe my 68 had dots) for proper timing.
The manual shows this clearly. The 68 is a very simple baler to time and you should check the timing anyway - especially with respect to the
needles entering the bale chamber with respect to the plunger face. I had to retard the entering of the needles by maybe one link, so my
hash/dots were off that much. Timing, however, is now perfect.
 
Thank Bill. Great info. I'm within 2 bolts of getting the plunger out this afternoon. I made sure the crank arm was trapped and did not rotate as I'm not sure if that would affect timing if it rotated without being connected to the plunger. Boy, I can already see I am WORN out on my maple sliders. 1-1/2" play on the top and probably that much side-to-side.
I did find the timing marks yesterday and they are as you noted, 3 punched dots in each side. I marked them with a straight line with black paint pen so I can clearly see them.

It it this simple?
1) Make sure the crank arm is centered between the two notches on the frame.
2) Without a chain on, line up the two sets of knotter drive timing marks.
3) Reinstall the chain keeping the timing marks together.
4) Make sure the tine feeder is between its two timing notches when 1 and 2 are complete.
5) Make a few dry runs and make sure the needles enter the bale chamber when the forward edge of the plunger is approx. 1" beyond the needle tips.


Thanks Bill
 
Plunger is out. Slides worn to the metal. I see what you mean about the knife bolts....mine won't budge. Might have to weld a nut so I can get them out...they are soaking with penetrating oil. We'll see. I see how the thing adjusts not. I'll probably buy the adjusters from NH and replace all the rest of the bolts with Gr-5 stuff so it will be easier to adjust once I put it back in the baler. Glad to have it out and glad I took it out...it needs a re-work..probably orig. wood from the early '60's.
 
Bill,
When you replaced your wood slides, what initial setting did you set your plunger width and height at before putting plunger back in the baler? It looks like one should put them in lying flat on the angle iron with all hardware intact. The install the plunger and adjust it to fit. Is that the best route?

Thanks
 
I set everything to the minimum and adjusted the fit after I got the plunger back in.

However, my plunger was ultra tight. I used a 4x4 and a sledge hammer to get it in. I've read of folks using a come along to pull them In, so be
prepared for that.

The plunger smoked a tad when I ran it for the first time. Works great now. I attribute the tightness to a 50 something year old bale chamber
being a bit out of square.
 
That makes sense to me Bill. I bet with new lumber all around, it is a tight fit to be sure. Doesn't sound like you needed any adjusting when you got it in if it is that tight. I bet you can bale for a long, long time before you ever need to stretch out the skids. That's what I'm hoping anyway. Better go dig up a 4x4 and get the sledge ready.

What angle should one grind the knife to? Mine is rounded off dull so it's hard to tell what it was. I'm thinking 30 degrees? I would love to get the knife off to sharpen it in a vise but the 3 tapered screws with 5/16" Allen sockets won't budge I have a 5/16" Allen socket on a 24" breaker bar and they aren't interested at all in breaking loose. I've taken a socket and gave them pretty good blows to no avail. No heat yet but that might be what I have to do. I'm thinking of sharpening it is place. My knife's edge must have been straight when new but now it curves inward (concave) due to wear which I believe is ok since the knife won't cut all at once. You think I can sharpen this knife attached to the plunger? I looked at the price of one of the three bolts that hold the knife on. $26 for one bolt. Amazing. I think they don't want us fixing this old equipment.
 
I think with the plunger out you can sharpen the knife with a grinder. 30ish degrees sounds about right.
 

I replaced the slides in my 68 also. I had the first set made and I told them I wanted them made out of hardwood. I go to pick them up and they made them out of mahogany! I got another set made out of oak but I still have the mahogany slides. I think I sent bill one to use a pattern. If you need one to use as a pattern I could send you one also. My plunger wasn't hard to get out. The main thing I did was I backed the bolts off on the rails and then took a putty knife which I fastened on a long handle and cleaned the rust and hay out from behind the rails. I then blew all that crap out from behind the rails and not only did mine slide out fairly easily, it also went back in easily.
 
Well done Bill! A picture is worth a thousand words as they say.

Ron, I believe you asked about the roller balls on the knotter having flats or being otherwise worn earlier. Yes, they are replaceable and they need to be in decent condition. You want to start looking in your area for a parts machine or a parts knotter assy. I was fortunate that a farmer friend gave me a parts knotter and I was able to rob the updated roller off it. IIRC it's an actual bearing type roller and not just a bushing. Or you can use a good old style and just peen the end over as the factory did. As long as it revolves freely and isn't full of flat spots (many used ones are) it's good to go. A bit of oil on them now and then seem to keep them working. The same guy also allowed me to copy his baler manual from a much later baler, a 315 or 320 IIRC, and it has a lot more info than my old 68 manual. And I'm very tempted to get this manual-https://external_link.com/new-holland-baler-knotters-service-manual.html Looks to be THE knotter manual for NH.

On your plunger knife, if you have a 1/2" gap then yeah, things are worn. There are slide adjusters on the baler you can try but I had to pull my plunger and renew the slides. If you do that then take the time to locate and loosen up the adjusters. They rust in place. Don't so like I did and try to heat one up to loosen it after you've made a few hundred bales. WAAAAYYY too much excitement!!! But it's a good way too find out that your old pressurized water fire extinguisher still works.....

Those allen headed plow bolts- You can't get them anymore, that I know of anyway, so try to get them out intact. The knife will come out with the plunger in the machine, buts it lots easier if it's out. The shear plate has a 90 degree edge and you want to follow the factory edge on the knife. Don't they to put a longer, shallower edge on the knife. It won't stay razor sharp no matter what, so just use the factory edge which is a very stout edge that will give good service for years as long as you don't try baling fence wire, staples, metal roofing of a Tee post. Again, you can guess how I learned this! The knife and shear plate want to just miss each other. I think the factory gap is supposed to be about 1/32". Let your new slides wear in for several hundred strokes before you make your final adjustment.

Slides are the same all around. Bale counters are available from a bunch of sources. I got mine at TSC. I never have found out where the factory location is though, so mine runs off the knotter trip arm. There is a piece of metal in the feeder opening that hangs down. I'm not sure what it's supposed to do, control hay flow I imagine, but it's supposed to be there. There is also a sheet metal cover on the side of the plunger that is supposed to be there. Mine wore in 2 some time back and it seems to work fine with out it.

Despite what Bill found, my trip arm definitely had horizontal grooves cut in it. They were very clear at the top of the working section that had never been used. Apparently no one ever saw the need to a 4 foot long bale! Anyway, NH might have done away with the grooves in later years, but at one time at least they had them.

On the fiber washer- you can buy material to make stuff like that from McMaster-Carr if you can figure out what it is. The $76.00 NH gets would probably buy you enough material to make 50 discs.
 

Is anyone else seeing a long post I made here that starts out "Well done Bill..." I keep trying to post it and the post says it's submitted, but I don't see it. Not the 1st time this has happened.
 
Well done Bill! A picture is worth a thousand words as they say.

Ron, I believe you asked about the roller balls on the knotter having flats or being otherwise worn earlier. Yes, they are replaceable and they need to be in decent condition. You want to start looking in your area for a parts machine or a parts knotter assy. I was fortunate that a farmer friend gave me a parts knotter and I was able to rob the updated roller off it. IIRC it's an actual bearing type roller and not just a bushing. Or you can use a good old style and just peen the end over as the factory did. As long as it revolves freely and isn't full of flat spots (many used ones are) it's good to go. A bit of oil on them now and then seem to keep them working. The same guy also allowed me to copy his baler manual from a much later baler, a 315 or 320 IIRC, and it has a lot more info than my old 68 manual. And I'm very tempted to get this manual-https://external_link.com/new-holland-baler-knotters-service-manual.html Looks to be THE knotter manual for NH.

On your plunger knife, if you have a 1/2" gap then yeah, things are worn. There are slide adjusters on the baler you can try but I had to pull my plunger and renew the slides. If you do that then take the time to locate and loosen up the adjusters. They rust in place. Don't so like I did and try to heat one up to loosen it after you've made a few hundred bales. WAAAAYYY too much excitement!!! But it's a good way too find out that your old pressurized water fire extinguisher still works.....

Those allen headed plow bolts- You can't get them anymore, that I know of anyway, so try to get them out intact. The knife will come out with the plunger in the machine, buts it lots easier if it's out. The shear plate has a 90 degree edge and you want to follow the factory edge on the knife. Don't they to put a longer, shallower edge on the knife. It won't stay razor sharp no matter what, so just use the factory edge which is a very stout edge that will give good service for years as long as you don't try baling fence wire, staples, metal roofing of a Tee post. Again, you can guess how I learned this! The knife and shear plate want to just miss each other. I think the factory gap is supposed to be about 1/32". Let your new slides wear in for several hundred strokes before you make your final adjustment.

Slides are the same all around. Bale counters are available from a bunch of sources. I got mine at TSC. I never have found out where the factory location is though, so mine runs off the knotter trip arm. There is a piece of metal in the feeder opening that hangs down. I'm not sure what it's supposed to do, control hay flow I imagine, but it's supposed to be there. There is also a sheet metal cover on the side of the plunger that is supposed to be there. Mine wore in 2 some time back and it seems to work fine with out it.

Despite what Bill found, my trip arm definitely had horizontal grooves cut in it. They were very clear at the top of the working section that had never been used. Apparently no one ever saw the need to a 4 foot long bale! Anyway, NH might have done away with the grooves in later years, but at one time at least they had them.

On the fiber washer- you can buy material to make stuff like that from McMaster-Carr if you can figure out what it is. The $76.00 NH gets would probably buy you enough material to make 50 discs.
 
(quoted from post at 12:06:11 09/11/16)
Is anyone else seeing a long post I made here that starts out "Well done Bill..." I keep trying to post it and the post says it's submitted, but I don't see it. Not the 1st time this has happened.

Well done Bill! A picture is worth a thousand words as they say.

Ron, I believe you asked about the roller balls on the knotter having flats or being otherwise worn earlier. Yes, they are replaceable and they need to be in decent condition. You want to start looking in your area for a parts machine or a parts knotter assy. I was fortunate that a farmer friend gave me a parts knotter and I was able to rob the updated roller off it. IIRC it's an actual bearing type roller and not just a bushing. Or you can use a good old style and just peen the end over as the factory did. As long as it revolves freely and isn't full of flat spots (many used ones are) it's good to go. A bit of oil on them now and then seem to keep them working. The same guy also allowed me to copy his baler manual from a much later baler, a 315 or 320 IIRC, and it has a lot more info than my old 68 manual. And I'm very tempted to get this manual-https://external_link.com/new-holland-baler-knotters-service-manual.html Looks to be THE knotter manual for NH.

On your plunger knife, if you have a 1/2" gap then yeah, things are worn. There are slide adjusters on the baler you can try but I had to pull my plunger and renew the slides. If you do that then take the time to locate and loosen up the adjusters. They rust in place. Don't so like I did and try to heat one up to loosen it after you've made a few hundred bales. WAAAAYYY too much excitement!!! But it's a good way too find out that your old pressurized water fire extinguisher still works.....

Those allen headed plow bolts- You can't get them anymore, that I know of anyway, so try to get them out intact. The knife will come out with the plunger in the machine, buts it lots easier if it's out. The shear plate has a 90 degree edge and you want to follow the factory edge on the knife. Don't they to put a longer, shallower edge on the knife. It won't stay razor sharp no matter what, so just use the factory edge which is a very stout edge that will give good service for years as long as you don't try baling fence wire, staples, metal roofing of a Tee post. Again, you can guess how I learned this! The knife and shear plate want to just miss each other. I think the factory gap is supposed to be about 1/32". Let your new slides wear in for several hundred strokes before you make your final adjustment.

Slides are the same all around. Bale counters are available from a bunch of sources. I got mine at TSC. I never have found out where the factory location is though, so mine runs off the knotter trip arm. There is a piece of metal in the feeder opening that hangs down. I'm not sure what it's supposed to do, control hay flow I imagine, but it's supposed to be there. There is also a sheet metal cover on the side of the plunger that is supposed to be there. Mine wore in 2 some time back and it seems to work fine with out it.

Despite what Bill found, my trip arm definitely had horizontal grooves cut in it. They were very clear at the top of the working section that had never been used. Apparently no one ever saw the need to a 4 foot long bale! Anyway, NH might have done away with the grooves in later years, but at one time at least they had them.

On the fiber washer- you can buy material to make stuff like that from McMaster-Carr if you can figure out what it is. The $76.00 NH gets would probably buy you enough material to make 50 discs.
 
Jason, that's a heck of an offer. I was within minutes of buying one block from NH (did I say buy? I meant mugged) and that one block including tax is $138 + $20 shipping. Obscene to say the least. If you wouldn't mind calling me 276-883-4020, I'd like to take you up on the offer and make arrangements to pay you for the costs, block and shipping. That will save me some wasted dollars just to get a pattern. My blocks are all the way down to the edge of the angle iron they are bolted to so I have no idea of the original dimensions.

How are your oak blocks holding up? How long ago did you install them? Will you get 10, 15, 20 years out of them? Did you soak yours in oil before you installed them?

Has anyone heard of yellow Locust being used? There's a lot of here on my farm and I have a lot of dry Locust. It's about the hardest wood I know if, you certainly cannot drive a nail in it if you've used it for a fence post. I wonder if it would age properly? I have a wood mill and can cut lumber to 14 feet and I'd use it if I thought it would last. I have plenty of sugar maple here and can use that but is sugar maple hard enough? I have some dried and it is HARD but there may be another species of Maple that fits the bill better. Any thoughts on this?

Kindly,
Ron Lines
SW Virgina
Near Bristol where the BIG T whupped up on VT last night. A sad day in mudville.
 
(quoted from post at 18:25:19 09/11/16) Jason, that's a heck of an offer. I was within minutes of buying one block from NH (did I say buy? I meant mugged) and that one block including tax is $138 + $20 shipping. Obscene to say the least. If you wouldn't mind calling me 276-883-4020, I'd like to take you up on the offer and make arrangements to pay you for the costs, block and shipping. That will save me some wasted dollars just to get a pattern. My blocks are all the way down to the edge of the angle iron they are bolted to so I have no idea of the original dimensions.

How are your oak blocks holding up? How long ago did you install them? Will you get 10, 15, 20 years out of them? Did you soak yours in oil before you installed them?

Has anyone heard of yellow Locust being used? There's a lot of here on my farm and I have a lot of dry Locust. It's about the hardest wood I know if, you certainly cannot drive a nail in it if you've used it for a fence post. I wonder if it would age properly? I have a wood mill and can cut lumber to 14 feet and I'd use it if I thought it would last. I have plenty of sugar maple here and can use that but is sugar maple hard enough? I have some dried and it is HARD but there may be another species of Maple that fits the bill better. Any thoughts on this?

Kindly,
Ron Lines
SW Virgina
Near Bristol where the BIG T whupped up on VT last night. A sad day in mudville.

Well I'm not too far from you. I'm in Greeneville. My slides have held up fine. I baled close to 200 bales with it yesterday. I did not oil mine before I put them in. It would take a long time for oil to soak into the oak and I didn't have the time to spare because I needed the baler. But it hasn't caused me any problems. I'm with you...I can't see why locust wouldn't work either.
 
(quoted from post at 14:16:49 09/11/16) Bret, that post hasn't appeared that I can see.

Kindly,
Ron Lines

Well done Bill! A picture is worth a thousand words as they say.

Ron, I believe you asked about the roller balls on the knotter having flats or being otherwise worn earlier. Yes, they are replaceable and they need to be in decent condition. You want to start looking in your area for a parts machine or a parts knotter assy. I was fortunate that a farmer friend gave me a parts knotter and I was able to rob the updated roller off it. IIRC it's an actual bearing type roller and not just a bushing. Or you can use a good old style and just peen the end over as the factory did. As long as it revolves freely and isn't full of flat spots (many used ones are) it's good to go. A bit of oil on them now and then seem to keep them working. The same guy also allowed me to copy his baler manual from a much later baler, a 315 or 320 IIRC, and it has a lot more info than my old 68 manual. And I'm very tempted to get this manual-https://external_link.com/new-holland-baler-knotters-service-manual.html Looks to be THE knotter manual for NH.

On your plunger knife, if you have a 1/2" gap then yeah, things are worn. There are slide adjusters on the baler you can try but I had to pull my plunger and renew the slides. If you do that then take the time to locate and loosen up the adjusters. They rust in place. Don't so like I did and try to heat one up to loosen it after you've made a few hundred bales. WAAAAYYY too much excitement!!! But it's a good way too find out that your old pressurized water fire extinguisher still works.....

Those allen headed plow bolts- You can't get them anymore, that I know of anyway, so try to get them out intact. The knife will come out with the plunger in the machine, buts it lots easier if it's out. The shear plate has a 90 degree edge and you want to follow the factory edge on the knife. Don't they to put a longer, shallower edge on the knife. It won't stay razor sharp no matter what, so just use the factory edge which is a very stout edge that will give good service for years as long as you don't try baling fence wire, staples, metal roofing of a Tee post. Again, you can guess how I learned this! The knife and shear plate want to just miss each other. I think the factory gap is supposed to be about 1/32". Let your new slides wear in for several hundred strokes before you make your final adjustment.

Slides are the same all around. Bale counters are available from a bunch of sources. I got mine at TSC. I never have found out where the factory location is though, so mine runs off the knotter trip arm. There is a piece of metal in the feeder opening that hangs down. I'm not sure what it's supposed to do, control hay flow I imagine, but it's supposed to be there. There is also a sheet metal cover on the side of the plunger that is supposed to be there. Mine wore in 2 some time back and it seems to work fine with out it.

Despite what Bill found, my trip arm definitely had horizontal grooves cut in it. They were very clear at the top of the working section that had never been used. Apparently no one ever saw the need to a 4 foot long bale! Anyway, NH might have done away with the grooves in later years, but at one time at least they had them.

On the fiber washer- you can buy material to make stuff like that from McMaster-Carr if you can figure out what it is. The $76.00 NH gets would probably buy you enough material to make 50 discs.
 
(quoted from post at 14:16:49 09/11/16) Bret, that post hasn't appeared that I can see.

Kindly,
Ron Lines

Too bad, it was a long, multi paragraph reply that covered a lot of things you asked about. No clue why it won't post.
 
I think I will try using Locust for these slides...I bet they work very well. How can we get up Jason? I'd like to arrange for a mahogany template so I can get started before our weather turn cold. Thanks for the offer.
 
If you're in Greeneville, Tn Jason, off of 81, I'm only an hour from you here in Lebanon, Va. Can we arrange for me to come down and pick up a wooden slide from you sometime?
 
Yeah I have it Ron, but I'm not retyping it. Took me 20 minutes the first time! I can try emailing it if you want to give me your addy.
 
Sorry for your troubles Bret. Electronics can be frustrating at times for sure. Yes, hope it is posted, and my email is [email protected].

Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge. I have a feeling that once this ole gal is put back together correctly, she'll work another 50 years.
 
(quoted from post at 23:56:42 09/11/16) If you're in Greeneville, Tn Jason, off of 81, I'm only an hour from you here in Lebanon, Va. Can we arrange for me to come down and pick up a wooden slide from you sometime?

Sure. I'll look for them this evening since I'll be out on the farm baling hay.
 
Nothing better than a sunny day baling hay. Takes the kinks out of life. Now stacking it in the barn, that's another story...
 
(quoted from post at 09:06:05 09/12/16) Sorry for your troubles Bret. Electronics can be frustrating at times for sure. Yes, hope it is posted, and my email is [email protected].

Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge. I have a feeling that once this ole gal is put back together correctly, she'll work another 50 years.

The email was sent Ron, it will be from "moneypit" or show Bret Martin as the sender. Hope it helps.
 
Got it Bret! Many thanks. I'm 'digesting' your wisdom and will respond after I get my head around it. There is a lot of good information in it. I wonder why you can't post it?
One point: Did you say that one can buy the globe shaped bearing on the ends of the knife assembly? They appear to be brass and I haven't removed one of the assemblies to sharpen the knife yet. But I will. I have my hands full with this plunger rebuild. Mine indeed have flat places on them and I would very much like to get them replaced. Did you use old parts to correct this or did you buy new bearings and replace the old ones?

Thanks again Bret!
 

I've been thru that too. Newer NH balers had a srew and washer that held the brass roller on so they was replaceable. The older ones like yours and mine had the ends bradded over to hold the brass roller on and they wasn't replaceable. What I did was order new brass rollers and I ground the bradded part of the knife arm off so I could remove the old roller. Then I found a hardened washer that the outside diameter was slightly smaller than the new brass roller. I put the new brass roller on the knife arm and then welded the washer to the end of the arm to hold the new roller on. I just made a plug weld in the hole of the middle of the washer. They have worked like that now for four years and close to 2000 bales and I have not had a problem.
 

I believe I ordered them for a NH 273 or 278. I can't remember right off but I have the parts bag at the house if you need the number. Flat spots will cause tying problems. Btw.. I laid one of those mahogany slides in the back of my truck last night.
 
That is a great tip Jason. In the manual I have for the s68 baler, The knife assembly finger is all one part number and no number shows for the brass bearings. I sure need to replace mine if you have that part number.
How can we meet to pick up that slide? I'd sure like to get some locust cut on my mill and then I'll put them on my planer when I know the exact dimensions.

Thanks again!
 
For anyone who would like an electronic copy of NH's knotter manual pointed out by Bret, I have located one and have put it here for download:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/luc7cjxewe6xorl/Ford-NH_Std-HD_Baler_Knotter_Service_Manual.pdf

Enjoy,
Ron
 
Thank you Jason. I'll look for a pair right now. I can get up with you anytime you're available. In Greeneville, on 81, Bristol or wherever. Let me know and I'll head that way.

Kindly,
Ron Lines
 
Jason,
I did contact NH in Abingdon on those spherical bearings. Stephanie is saying there isn't a part number of 146 that she can see. Could it be that there is another number for these? Most of NH numbers are 5 digits and sometimes 7 and 8.

Kindly,

ron Lines
 
(quoted from post at 20:08:06 09/13/16) Jason,
I did contact NH in Abingdon on those spherical bearings. Stephanie is saying there isn't a part number of 146 that she can see. Could it be that there is another number for these? Most of NH numbers are 5 digits and sometimes 7 and 8.

Kindly,

ron Lines

Both messicks.com and partsspring both show that roller as 146.
 
Found it Jason. Thanks. This looks like a brass ring. So there isn't any bearings, it just rotates around a shaft?
 
(quoted from post at 23:54:40 09/13/16) Found it Jason. Thanks. This looks like a brass ring. So there isn't any bearings, it just rotates around a shaft?

Yes. That's all it is.
 
How in the world did you ever match these up? NH doesn't show them as a separate item.

Another question. Concerning the bottom slides. When I install new slides and put the plunger in the bale chute, I can see the slots on the side of the baler that lets me adjust the bottom feet up or down, raising or lowering the plunger. The carriage bolts that bolt the slides to the plunger all have nuts on them and they all face the inside of the plunger. The plunger side that faces the outside of the baler (same side as the slots and knotter chain) has slots cut into the angle iron so that the carriage bolts can be loosened and be raised by the feet, then re-tightened. My question is, how do you get to the inside of the plunger to loosen these carriage bolts when the plunger is inside the baler? That one stumps me.
 
(quoted from post at 10:02:59 09/13/16) Got it Bret! Many thanks. I'm 'digesting' your wisdom and will respond after I get my head around it. There is a lot of good information in it. I wonder why you can't post it?
One point: Did you say that one can buy the globe shaped bearing on the ends of the knife assembly? They appear to be brass and I haven't removed one of the assemblies to sharpen the knife yet. But I will. I have my hands full with this plunger rebuild. Mine indeed have flat places on them and I would very much like to get them replaced. Did you use old parts to correct this or did you buy new bearings and replace the old ones?

Thanks again Bret!

I don't know why Ron. Maybe you can copy and paste it here for me? Been many years, but it seems to me I replaced the brass ball by chiseling the peened over end away carefully and then re-peening it to the point it was secure but free moving. THe newer style arms have a bolt on roller bearing. You could just get the arm with the new roller and be done with it.

Not sure which parts your talking about on the plunger. Does yours have wooden slides or rollers? Mine has slides which I replaced. If you have a model with bearings and they have flats they need replacing.
 
(quoted from post at 22:11:55 09/13/16) How in the world did you ever match these up? NH doesn't show them as a separate item.

Another question. Concerning the bottom slides. When I install new slides and put the plunger in the bale chute, I can see the slots on the side of the baler that lets me adjust the bottom feet up or down, raising or lowering the plunger. The carriage bolts that bolt the slides to the plunger all have nuts on them and they all face the inside of the plunger. The plunger side that faces the outside of the baler (same side as the slots and knotter chain) has slots cut into the angle iron so that the carriage bolts can be loosened and be raised by the feet, then re-tightened. My question is, how do you get to the inside of the plunger to loosen these carriage bolts when the plunger is inside the baler? That one stumps me.

Ron, you are looking at the wrong bolts or someone had repalced the correct square headed set screws and lock nuts. Look for the square headed set screws and lock nuts, that's how you adjust. Should be in the manual. They are on the outside of the bale chamber, not ont he plunger itself.
 
This is a tough one to explain Bret. Think plunger only. If you need to adjust your plunger up or down to get the fit right, you have to move the feet on the bottom of the plunger up or down. What these feet do is push down on the wooden slides which increases your overall vertical height of your plunger. The slides move relative to the plunger they are bolted to. To do this, you need to loosen the carriage bolts that bolt the slides to the plunger, adjust your feet (which pushes the slides away from the plunger, then retighten the carriage bolts. I'm wondering how to loosen and tighten these carriage bolts nuts which are on the inside of the plunger if the plunger is in the bale chute and you can't get to them. Perhaps you can reach them when the crank is pointing towards the tractor but that would be a good stretch to do so.
 
(quoted from post at 02:11:55 09/14/16) How in the world did you ever match these up? NH doesn't show them as a separate item.

Another question. Concerning the bottom slides. When I install new slides and put the plunger in the bale chute, I can see the slots on the side of the baler that lets me adjust the bottom feet up or down, raising or lowering the plunger. The carriage bolts that bolt the slides to the plunger all have nuts on them and they all face the inside of the plunger. The plunger side that faces the outside of the baler (same side as the slots and knotter chain) has slots cut into the angle iron so that the carriage bolts can be loosened and be raised by the feet, then re-tightened. My question is, how do you get to the inside of the plunger to loosen these carriage bolts when the plunger is inside the baler? That one stumps me.

Here is a pic of one.
146_zpsu7wevyu1.jpg
[/URL][/img]
 
Thanks for finding these Jason. I've ordered two of these. It should interesting finding a washer just a tad smaller that I can weld to hold this feller in place. I'm thankful that these are even available and can be used given some innovation.
 
(quoted from post at 13:57:37 09/14/16) Thanks for finding these Jason. I've ordered two of these. It should interesting finding a washer just a tad smaller that I can weld to hold this feller in place. I'm thankful that these are even available and can be used given some innovation.

You could order the washer and screw that is used on the 273 and just drill and tap yours if you don't want to weld them on. The screw is a button head 1/4"-20 but it doesn't tell what size the washer is, but you can still order them.
 
(quoted from post at 09:27:47 09/14/16) This is a tough one to explain Bret. Think plunger only. If you need to adjust your plunger up or down to get the fit right, you have to move the feet on the bottom of the plunger up or down. What these feet do is push down on the wooden slides which increases your overall vertical height of your plunger. The slides move relative to the plunger they are bolted to. To do this, you need to loosen the carriage bolts that bolt the slides to the plunger, adjust your feet (which pushes the slides away from the plunger, then retighten the carriage bolts. I'm wondering how to loosen and tighten these carriage bolts nuts which are on the inside of the plunger if the plunger is in the bale chute and you can't get to them. Perhaps you can reach them when the crank is pointing towards the tractor but that would be a good stretch to do so.

Ron, I vaguely recall the set up you're talking about. IIIRC you make your rough adjustments as the plunger goes into the bale chamber with the bolts you're talking about. I don't believe you can adjust them once it's inside the baler proper. You make your fine adjustments with the square headed set screws I was speaking of. They move the angles the slides run in.
 
Thanks again Bret. Yes, the horizontal (knife adjustment) adjustment is done with the bolts on the rails inside the baler. As far as vertical adjustment of the plunger, it's done by adjusting the feet found only on the bottom of the plunger iron. Much like adjusting a table height. I'll see if I can come up with something innovative to save my skin on this one. Sometimes actually doing it makes it crystal clear. Other times we get a little deeper in the quicksand...which is my way of doing things.
 

Ron, I went out and looked at mine. I think you'll find that if you can get the plunger in the chamber at the exit end and make the rough setting there that it will work fine. It's the knife to shear plate gap that becomes the issue as parts wear in. On mine I had to keep relieving the corners of the slides until it would go in pretty freely. Up and down just aren't the problem side to side play is.
 
I certainly agree Bret. Even to the point where one could measure at least the vertical opening with a tape and set the plunger just below that measurement, that will take care of any vertical adjustments that are needed. I have to think that if the vertical clearance is pretty close anyway, gravity will take care of the rest as that plunger is pretty stout. It also makes sense that all adjustments on the plunger are vertical. There are no horizontal adjustments that can be made on the plunger. The horizontal settings (knife against shear-plate), as you say, are accomplished via the internal left-side rails (upper and lower) on the left side of the baler.

I did myself a favor I think, I unloosened every bolt both on the plunger and the left side of the baler that adjusts the horizontal. Even the ones top and underneath. I hit every one with penetrating oil and got all of them working smoothly. Now, when I reinstall, it should be easier not having to fight rusted bolts on the outside or on the plunger. Lot of work but worth it, now and into the future.

I rotated the knotters up and removed the billhooks and knife assemblies. On the end of the knife assemblies are, as you know and as Jason pointed out, brass bearing. Mine have many, many flat spots. I put the assembly in a vise and took a flap-disc grinder and slowly took the crown off the bearing shaft. Amazingly, a faint ring appeared in the shiny portion of the grind that was easy to see meaning that they added a cap at the factory that would slip over the shaft AND be just the right size to hold the brass bearing in place. I suppose they crimped this cap or welded it. Once I saw the faint circle that appeared after grinding, you realize it is an outer ring, not part of the knife assembly shaft and that you could tap this up and off by tapping the bearing upward and the bearing came right off, no need to file the top of the knife assembly at all. I think it is a 1/4" washer that is the right diameter to weld back on top of the knife assembly to hold the replacement brass bearings on. I've cut the two inner tines of a common eating fork off, leaving the two outside tines. A little bending and I have a tool that will hold the washer down exactly where I want it while a buddy welds it.
Also, the previous owner had changed my billhooks and they're brand new.

You remember I had that shear-pin problem with the needle safety latch when going downhill on a slight grade. I certainly can see on the plunger where the latch has hit it several times. Quite an indentation. I'm still stumped about that to a point as the adjustment for the latch has the two pieces of strap steel pulled together all the way, holding the latch open longer. I read something in the manual about this that is a possibility. It pertains to the brake shoes believe it or not. Mine are pretty thin, but I don't know what they look like when they're new. I'll have to put the thing together and see if the shoes are holding the knotter shaft tightly. Here's what I found in the manual: (page 19) "If the brake is lubricated or becomes too loose, excessive flywheel shear-bolt breakage will result due to the knotters rotating slightly and allowing the needle safety latch to enter the bale chamber when it should not". Interesting! Another place to check.

Something about working on this old iron that gets in your blood, sometimes literally while you're scraping and banging away.
 

Ron, don't weld that washer in place!!! What you want to do is peen the end over the washer enough to hold it if you can.If there isn't enough metal there, then get a small puncture wound punch and start tapping. Do this enough and you'll displace enough metal to hold it securely. Weld it on and how are you ever going to get it off again? Or if the heat warps things, how can you fix it? Obviously, I'm firmly against welding it! You could drill and tap it for a stay bolt too.

Does your needle yoke/bail move at all when the machine is off? If it does, can you adjust the actuating rod out a bit to lessen it? Thats where the occasional nick on the safety stop I get comes from. I discussed the wear in my last email I think.
 
I did consider tapping the top of the assembly Bret, and it could be down. I'm not sure about the amount of metal I can afford to put on the end without hitting something, but I certainly will look into it. That is the way to go I believe.

My rod that connects my knotter shaft to the yoke isn't factory. Someone had did some welding on it, etc. Perhaps I should order the factory rod and clevis and do it right. It works great going up a gentle slope but going down, I can't get 4' without shearing a bolt. I mean something is bad wrong if that's the case. I need to watch what is happening and walk beside the baler, watching the yoke rod and the safety latch and see if I can see what is triggering it. Do you know how thick your brake shoes are? Mine are probably something like 3/16" or so but the knotter shaft seems firm and held. I can't move it at all by moving the yoke arm.
 
(quoted from post at 14:09:10 09/17/16) I did consider tapping the top of the assembly Bret, and it could be down. I'm not sure about the amount of metal I can afford to put on the end without hitting something, but I certainly will look into it. That is the way to go I believe.

My rod that connects my knotter shaft to the yoke isn't factory. Someone had did some welding on it, etc. Perhaps I should order the factory rod and clevis and do it right. It works great going up a gentle slope but going down, I can't get 4' without shearing a bolt. I mean something is bad wrong if that's the case. I need to watch what is happening and walk beside the baler, watching the yoke rod and the safety latch and see if I can see what is triggering it. Do you know how thick your brake shoes are? Mine are probably something like 3/16" or so but the knotter shaft seems firm and held. I can't move it at all by moving the yoke arm.

I welded mine simply because the ones I took off were the originals that had been on there since 1956. I have my grandfathers notepad he carried in the baler and even back then when it was powered by a Wisconsin motor and pulled with a Ferguson TE-20 they was baling around 6500 bales a year like that! I figured if the originals can last that long chances are I won't need to replace these in my lifetime. Besides they get flat spots because they quit turning...I always check mine before I bale. I give them a little squirt of oil to make sure they turn freely. If it ever happens that I do need to replace them then I will just take a cut off wheel and split the brass roller since obviously it will was needing replacing and then just grind the washer down on a bench top grinder wheel. Then replace it exactly like I did before. Ron will you be around later today?
 
(quoted from post at 09:25:00 09/17/16)
Ron, don't weld that washer in place!!! What you want to do is peen the end over the washer enough to hold it if you can.If there isn't enough metal there, then get a small puncture wound punch and start tapping. Do this enough and you'll displace enough metal to hold it securely. Weld it on and how are you ever going to get it off again? Or if the heat warps things, how can you fix it? Obviously, I'm firmly against welding it! You could drill and tap it for a stay bolt too.

Does your needle yoke/bail move at all when the machine is off? If it does, can you adjust the actuating rod out a bit to lessen it? Thats where the occasional nick on the safety stop I get comes from. I discussed the wear in my last email I think.



In case anyone else is as confused as I am, the "...then get a small puncture wound punch and start tapping." line was supposed to read , "...then get a p r i c k punch and start tapping." While I abhor foul language on the internet, especially a family rated site like this, you sometimes need to call a spade a spade and not a "long handled, sharp edged, steel digging instrument designed to be used from the upright position in gardening, construction or farm work"!
 
(quoted from post at 10:09:10 09/17/16) I did consider tapping the top of the assembly Bret, and it could be down. I'm not sure about the amount of metal I can afford to put on the end without hitting something, but I certainly will look into it. That is the way to go I believe.

My rod that connects my knotter shaft to the yoke isn't factory. Someone had did some welding on it, etc. Perhaps I should order the factory rod and clevis and do it right. It works great going up a gentle slope but going down, I can't get 4' without shearing a bolt. I mean something is bad wrong if that's the case. I need to watch what is happening and walk beside the baler, watching the yoke rod and the safety latch and see if I can see what is triggering it. Do you know how thick your brake shoes are? Mine are probably something like 3/16" or so but the knotter shaft seems firm and held. I can't move it at all by moving the yoke arm.

There is a bend int he factory rod Ron, Not sure if yours has it or if it's needed, but it exists. It could also be that your plunger slides were so worn that they were allowing the plunger to wedge itself somehow going downhill I suppose. My money is still on the needle yoke/bail moving. My brake material is about 3/16" too.

Baled up a small field yesterday, beat the rain too. The 68 got temperamental on me and missed 3-4 knots in a row on the first load. That's the one downside to a Bale Basket, by the time you realize there's a problem the bales are in the chute heading up the ramp and theres not much you can do. I believe it was when the new ball of twine started, but that's the first time it's done that this year, for 2 years I think. Once she got over her hissy fit she went right back to making bricks.
 
Hello Jason,
Should I order that word block from NH or is there a way to meet up and pick up your mahogony one? I'm needing to get this plunger finished and reinstalled.
Thanks!
Ron
 
Thanks agsin Bret. If you can believe it, thats a length of 1/2" pipe welded into my rod without any thought of what shape that rod should take. I wonder if that shape is lending itself to moving the knotter shaft and triggering a needle safety latch event? I wonder how to know for sure?
I don't see in the manual a procedure to adjust it.
 
(quoted from post at 16:56:09 09/18/16) Hello Jason,
Should I order that word block from NH or is there a way to meet up and pick up your mahogony one? I'm needing to get this plunger finished and reinstalled.
Thanks!
Ron

I asked in my previous post if you was going to be around today.
 
(quoted from post at 16:56:09 09/18/16) Hello Jason,
Should I order that word block from NH or is there a way to meet up and pick up your mahogony one? I'm needing to get this plunger finished and reinstalled.
Thanks!
Ron

I asked in my previous post if you was going to be around today.
 
I sure missed that Jason. My apologies. I was out of town today but am back. Is there a way to get up with you tomorrow?

Thanks!
 
It will be great to get the dimensions and get some put together. Mine are so worn, they'd be terrible to pattern after. I am going to make mine from locust, maybe 2 sets and my locust is limitless. I have to believe it will last for a long, long time. I have maple here as well and that has to be very, very good as well. Might make two sets of each...thanks Jason
 
(quoted from post at 15:08:59 09/18/16) Thanks agsin Bret. If you can believe it, thats a length of 1/2" pipe welded into my rod without any thought of what shape that rod should take. I wonder if that shape is lending itself to moving the knotter shaft and triggering a needle safety latch event? I wonder how to know for sure?
I don't see in the manual a procedure to adjust it.

Looking at the pic you emailed me, I'm seeing a bend in the wrong place and it certainly looks like it could flex quite a bit. As far as adjusting the rod, there is a yoke at the threaded (bottom) end thats supposed to allow adjustment. I don't have the manual nearby, but there are instructions on adjusting. It comes down to the needle yoke/bail being all the way back in the "stored" position when the knotting cycle is done. If you can grab the needle yoke and move it upwards, then there's too much play. In your case I'd see if it moves down while pushing on it. I'll bet you see movement. On the opposite side of the baler you'll find the safety block and see that it operates off the roller on the needle yoke. There can be wear on the parts there and on the pin the safety block pivots on. A little wear here and there can add up to a bunch of movement.
 
I agree Bret. Great tips on what to check. This ole gal is loose and worn and I'm doing what I can to tighten bolts, add sleeves and bearings where I can. I'll check that yoke for play and eliminate it.

I also found that my twine finger plates are really loose. They also have a bolt with an allen head built in. I'm looking now for wear and a way to tighten that mec. up so that plate won't wobble so bad.
 
Bret, I am thinking about the hay pickup. I see the chain on the wheel on the right side of the baler. That looks like it turns the pickup (?). Also, on the left side, the chain going down to the pickup axle drives it as well(?). Perhaps I'm not seeing what is really driving the pickup, are both?

Kindly
 

IIRC the pickup assy is driven out of the feeder gearbox, the one by your twine storage area, by a chain. IIRC the pickup drive is a chain dropping down from the 1st sprocket out of the feeder gearbox. It powers a shaft driving the pickup by other chains at both ends. So, if I understand you correctly, yes it's driven from both ends of the pickup reel. Of course that's IF my memory is working right!
 
(quoted from post at 09:52:48 09/19/16) I agree Bret. Great tips on what to check. This ole gal is loose and worn and I'm doing what I can to tighten bolts, add sleeves and bearings where I can. I'll check that yoke for play and eliminate it.

I also found that my twine finger plates are really loose. They also have a bolt with an allen head built in. I'm looking now for wear and a way to tighten that mec. up so that plate won't wobble so bad.

The twine disc has a bushing/spacer under that screw head that goes in the hole in the disc itself, with a washer, then star type lock washer under it, all leading to a square nut...I think. Chances are if you can loosen up that screw and then retighten it you can remove some play. It's entirely possible something in there has rusted away, or together for that matter. That's not a real hard assy to play with IIRC. It needs to move freely but I don't think it should flop around, so to speak.

Look for significant wear in the rod that actuates the disc and be sure to check both ends of that rod. They never get lubed.
 
Or could it be Bret that drive is being supplied to the right tire by the left side chain for some reason? Perhaps NH wanted that side of the baler driven for traction purposes. It would be good to know if the right tire is a driver or is driven...
 
(quoted from post at 13:05:58 09/19/16) Or could it be Bret that drive is being supplied to the right tire by the left side chain for some reason? Perhaps NH wanted that side of the baler driven for traction purposes. It would be good to know if the right tire is a driver or is driven...

There is no drive to either of the tires and the tires don't drive anything.
 
Then the obvious question then is this: On the right side of the baler, he pickup center shaft drives a chain and you know. What is that chain for? It's not needed for pickup drive since the pickup is being driven from the chain that comes down to the pickup axle.
 
I see now Bret, they bring the pickup drive over to the right side via a shaft which drives the pickup. The pickup is not driven from its left side. Probably makes sense when you raise and lower the pickup.
 

I can't recall if it's driven from both ends now that I think about it, but there is a shaft that drives the outboard side for sure. Should be a grease zerk and steel line that lubes that bearing too.
 
(quoted from post at 02:21:11 09/19/16) I sure missed that Jason. My apologies. I was out of town today but am back. Is there a way to get up with you tomorrow?

Thanks!

I tried calling but didn't get an answer.
 
Thanks Jason, yes we were out later than usual today. I went ahead and order the block from NH. But, I was honest with NH parts in Abingdon (Stephanie). I asked price ($148/block) and then asked her what her restock charge would be and told her honestly that I would be returning the block once I pulled all the dimensions off of it. She said the restock would be $44 so, all in all, that isn't too bad and I won't have to bother you about this.
Hope all is going well down your way, Fall is setting in and I'm going to keep working on this ole gal until she's in better shape. She's getting there but there's work to be down until I put her to bed in the barn for the winter.
Thanks for your past advice, I certainly needed it and into the future.
Kindly,
Ron
 
Hey All,
In looking at the parts diagram, I'm a bit confused as to what is what. Parts shows two shafts under Rockwell tube. Does anyone know what is missing here or worn out? My tube over the pto shaft isn't attached to the end and I didn't see it when it was so I have no idea what I need to order to get this returned to the original state. is there an internal bearing that welds to the end of the tube or how did this work originally?

Thanks!
 
I'm stumped, my photo filesize is 76k and I cannot see how to make it upload. when I put my curser over the 'Begin Download' it turns to a vertical bar and won't let me upload the .jpg file. If anyone knows how to do this, I'd appreciate a hint...thanks
 
(quoted from post at 17:00:03 09/21/16) Hey All,
In looking at the parts diagram, I'm a bit confused as to what is what. Parts shows two shafts under Rockwell tube. Does anyone know what is missing here or worn out? My tube over the pto shaft isn't attached to the end and I didn't see it when it was so I have no idea what I need to order to get this returned to the original state. is there an internal bearing that welds to the end of the tube or how did this work originally?

Thanks!

Front or rear? On the front there is a male and female piece. I think the female is on the rearward side. The safety shields, what I think you are calling Rockwell tubes, have a snap ring, thrust washer, and a plastic bushing that fit in the end and hold things more or less together. Should be on the IPL under front PTO shaft. The rear shaft is set up the same basic way but no telescoping feature IIRC.
 
Thanks again Bret. If I could get my photo to upload, it would be easier. But yes, my outer telescopic safety tube is not connected to the bearing housing on the tongue hookup pivot. It's come loose and sits on the pto shaft at that end while the pto is running. Because I didn't see it when it was connected, I'm wondering how it connects to the bearing housing. I see the snap ring is in place but there is a ring of some kind loose from the end of the tube.
 
"If I could get my photo to upload, it would be easier."

Try uploading your pics from the "classic" view in YT.
 
Well I'll be. Isn't that strange. Great job Bill. Who would have known. I 'hope' you can see my protective shaft has come loose from the bearing housing it once was part of. I cannot tell what parts you need to fix this by the parts drawings. Did the original fit just 'snap' into place or how did it come from the factory?

By the way, my wooden slider for my plunger came in today. $147. I almost have my first one copied from it and from there, I'll check the fit and return the one I bought. It looks like it is made in Italy and they have added 4 inset rectangles two on one side and two on another to have a hard surface were the set-screws (bolts) will tighten up against without gouging the wood. I'll try and post a photo. As you said, one width is 1.75 inches x 1.70 inches (1-11/16"). I did figure out the angles on my compound miter saw. With one of the 1.70 sides facing up, move your left-right angle to the right to 43 degrees. Then, tilt the top of your saw's head to the left, 30 degrees to get the proper compound miter that they use. It is as good as exact...then drill the holes and you're done!
 
I think I understand the question about how to loosen and tighten the inner nuts of the horizontal bolts on the wood glides. If you look in the manual, you can see the part about having to move the plunger to the location where there are some inspection/adjustment holes and slots in the bale chamber. Some of the slots are to either side of the bale chamber but a couple are on the bottom.
 
That's right Ron, there are slots that you use to adjust the horizontal positioning of the plunger so that you move the knife (attached to the plunger) to a tolerance of 1/16" to the stationary cleave plate bolted to the plunger. That's a horizontal plunger adjustment.

I haven't looked at the slots on the bottom but that's what you'd use to increase or decrease the vertical height of the plunger, making a nice vertical fit for the plunger. In short, all adjustment hardware found on the plunger will adjust your vertical height only.

The pairs of bolts found along the left side of the baler, I think there are 7 locations, either push a piece of angle iron found inside the baler on the bottom left and top left sides in or they pull that angle iron in. Doing so adjusts the horizontal position of the plunger so that the knife tolerance is correct. I sharpened my knife very sharp and squared up the cleave plate that it runs against. Mine were very rounded over AND the knife was at least 1/2" from the cleave plate. It's a wonder it cut anything. I'm making a set of slides now out of yellow locust wood. Hard stuff. I bought one slide from NH ($147) and am using it as a pattern. I'll return it for restock when I'm finished with it and I have told NH what I plan to do so they are aware I will return it.
 
Error in the last posting. The stationary cleave plate is bolted to the baler, not the plunger...my mistake..the knife is bolted to the plunger...sorry for any misdirection..
 
Error in the last posting. The stationary cleave plate is bolted to the baler, not the plunger...my mistake..the knife is bolted to the plunger...sorry for any misdirection..
 
"I 'hope' you can see my protective shaft has come loose from the bearing housing it once was part of. I cannot tell what parts you need to fix this by the parts drawings. Did the original fit just 'snap' into place or how did it come from the factory?"

I don't have a clue on that one. My baler isn't nearby for a look-see either. It looks like it's a protective collar more than anything functional. Other than for protection if a bearing exploded, not sure what it's purpose is.
 
Thanks Bill. That outer telescopic tube is for protection from the inner rotating pto shaft. Once again, I uploaded a photo and it didn't make it. This forum software really needs to improve as I can't tell what the software is doing after an upload and it ends up double-posting comments without a photo...

Ron
 
Anyone with any ideas? I got my sliders finished and thickness planed to the exact dimensions of the new slide I bought for a template. I put a little oil on them and slid the plunger with the new sliders into the bale chamber. Slid in easily and with only about 1/8" side play.

I am now stumped. I can slide the plunger and Pitman arm all the way back to the crank arm so I can mate up my bolt surfaces, crank bearing to pitman arm. Can't do it. The pitman arm is as far as it can go to the right and it is still needs to go at least 1/2" more or 3/4" and it will not go. So, I cannot bolt up my pitman arm to the crank. I am really stumped over this. What could be causing this? The horizontal fit of the new wood blocks is perfect. Slides easily in and out. I need to adjust the vertical about 1/4" but that isn't causing my problem. The welded surface on the pitman arm is hitting the crank arm by about 3/8" and will not go any further to clear the arm and mate up with the bearing. Any ideas?

Kindly,
Ron
 
Off the top of my head, I'm thinking the pitman arm is not symmetrical to the perpendicular cross tube that attaches to the plunger. Look at that
and perhaps it can be flipped over to get you the travel distance, also check the pitman to plunger attachment pin fit. Any slop and you should
replace the bushing while you've got the plunger out.
 
I'll look at that Bill and thanks. This is a real head-scratcher. The wood blocks fit snugly into the iron rails they run in. A very perfect fit. If you sight down the knife edge, it aligns perfectly with the new wood block, doesn't protrude at all. I can slide the plunger by hand in and out so it's not bound anywhere. The blocks I removed were in REAL bad shape, I have to say they were original from 1960. They were 1/2 gone at least. I really am shocked that I'm having this very strange problem. The pitman arm bushings are excellent. Side pressure on the pitman arm to test the bushings and you get a deflection that is literally negligible. They are way tight. The pitman arm assembly is all the way as far as it can go towards the right edge of the shaft itis running on, won't go any further. There is, obviously, about and inch of shaft showing on the left where the arm is slid all the way over. I am really stumped with this one, almost like the design is wrong but I know it isn't.
 

Ron, finally had a chance to look at my baler. I had the front and rear shafts confused. THe rear shaft telescopes, front is solid. There is an internal snap ring on mine that holds the bushing and washer inside the tube. If yours is missing that's the problem.
 
That's what I needed to know Bret. The snap ring was the key. I want to look at the parts drawings again and see what I need to order. I have a snap ring already in place at the bearing between the two shafts. There is a bushing or something that has come out of the end of the outer tube. I really would like to fix this since it is running and bouncing and it won't take long for that to become a bigger problem.
Got the pitman arm bolted up. Whew! The new blocks have made for a tight fit so I'm glad I put 30w oil on them before I installed the plunger. The crank bearing that runs the plunger has a nice 'wobble' bearing holder on it and that is what saved my bacon. I got the piece just close enough to start the top bolt and then I tapped the bottom in place. Amazing that it went. I was relieved to say the least. It runs great, knife is real close to its cleave plate now and I'm happy about that. She'll need to wear in but it's going to be a lot better. Made the runners out of yellow locust so I'm sure they'll do a great job. They're hard as iron..
By the way, I'm sitting there listening to the baler run at slow speed to see how everything looks and sounds. The brass bearings on the knife fingers work great and I'm glad I changed those. But as I was listening to the baler, squeak, squeak, squeak. The pickup reel is squeaking so I 'tried' to shoot some grease into the left-side bushing on the reel itself. No dice. That zerk is frozen. Its obvious that it hasn't had grease in a long time. So, check yours and make sure it takes grease. I'll be removing mine and replacing the busing to get that going again. That could fail easily in the field and I don't want that. I think on the left side of the reel, it's just a busing and not a bearing. I'll go into the all the components of the left side after that. There are bearings there. While I'm at it, I'll re-pack both wheel bearings and the small pickup tire bearing. Do you know a source for just the tire, 5x12 I think. Messicks has one for fifty but I believe it the entire rim and all. Thanks for checking your pto tube.
 

I don't think you can get just the tire. You couldn't the last time I checked with my dealer anyway. Mine bee in pieces for years and I'm on the lookout for a suitable replacement of some kind. I can always make one out of plywood!

I've never looked at the left side pickup end. I thought there was a grease line to it? Now I'm going to have to try to remember to check.

Made another 260-275 bales day before yesterday and beat the rain. Bricks! Tough time of the year here to make dry hay, but I've got a lot left to do yet. Wish me luck!
 
"I've never looked at the left side pickup end. I thought there was a grease line to it? Now I'm going to have to try to remember
to check."

There is a grease line.
 
Brett and Bill, Left as I understand the conventional orientation, is the left side as you are sitting on the tractor seat looking ahead at the direction of travel. Yes, the right side, (small tire side) has a grease tube to grease the pickup reel drive-shaft bearing. I'm going to disassemble that entire area changing bushings and bearings. Got both sides wheel-bearings cleaned and re-greased. No worries there any longer. I don't know about yours but on mine, there is no rhyme or reason to the seals and bearings. Some are Koyo, some Timkin, some RCM. Just mixed and matched. One thing I have noticed, New Holland has done an excellent job of keeping their parts hard to find unless you go to them or one of their contracted folks. Dimensions of their bearings are odd for sure, ID 30.123 mm x 36.817 OD and on and one....weird diameters.

Now that's a few bales of hay Brett. I'm thrilled to hear the ole gal is doin' you right. Keep on keepin' on...you feedin' cattle or selling the hay?

Do either of you use the cable that inserts a steel peg into your right side wheel hub so you can be on the tractor and lock-up the wheel to extend or retract the tongue pivot? Mine didn't have a cable so I added one. We'll see how it does. Something else to drag or get caught up in the drive line I suppose.
 
My bad - Right as standing behind the baler. There is a grease zerk on the left side too - under the pick-up too that you will
have to crawl under to access from the bottom.
 
Sure is Bill. That's what I couldn't get grease in, it was plugged solid. So, I removed all of it. The collar has the grease zerk in it and it comes completely off of the reel shaft. It has a bushing in it, NH 28280 (23 bux) that I removed. It was all screwed up, no thicker than aluminum foil. AND, that bushing is only long enough to go about 1/2 way in the collar. To make things worse, the factory grease zerk in that coupling (if it's not plugged up) dumps grease on the far end of the bushing and on out. No way provided to grease between the shaft and the bushing. So, while I had it out and after I put in the bushing, I drilled (7/32) the collar and tapped it to 1/4" right through the collar and bushing. Now the grease has access to the shaft and the busing. On the end facing you are 3-4 large washers that act as spacers between the collar and the cotter pin on the end of the shaft that have to travel around as the reel rotates. So, you have washers rubbing against the collar as the reel rotates. That's the factory design. Very poor. Now when I grease it, grease comes out the front and into the washers which is much better. I also grease the factory zerk which gets the tail end of the bushing but not into the bushing at all. Now my squeak, squeak is gone. I'm ordering the right hand reel shaft bushing and I'll replace that as well. Also, I'll replace the two ball-bearings in the drive shaft that comes all the way across to drive the reel.

I got to looking at the knotters by the way, and notices that the cam follower that rides the twine-finger cam (same cam that trips the bale counter) was eaten into pretty good by the cam over the years. Replaced that so it's much better now.

I'm still wondering where to find material to make the reel-clutch washers fiber washers that look to be about 6" in diameter. A large fiber washer is what it looks like. They want some nutty price for them, $37 each or some such nonsense. NH parts are beyond overpriced to the extreme.
 
(quoted from post at 08:56:47 09/29/16)

Now that's a few bales of hay Brett. I'm thrilled to hear the ole gal is doin' you right. Keep on keepin' on...you feedin' cattle or selling the hay?

Do either of you use the cable that inserts a steel peg into your right side wheel hub so you can be on the tractor and lock-up the wheel to extend or retract the tongue pivot? Mine didn't have a cable so I added one. We'll see how it does. Something else to drag or get caught up in the drive line I suppose.

I have no clue if that peg is even on mine. The beauty of the 68 is it's small size to start with. I haven't had to pivot the tongue since the day I brought it home. I live on a lane and half road and have no problems transporting. But my max travel is only 3/4 of a mile. The haybines and bale basket are much wider. It's just not an issue for me. Did almost get nailed by a school bus cutting a blind corner at a hillcrest yesterday though! Good thing I was as far over into the right side grass as I could because I knew that people habitually cut that corner.

I did 2 more baskets full yesterday and then round baled 20 5x4 foot rounds to beat the weather. That's about 260-270 more squares and the 68 performed flawlessly. I, on the other hand, tied a poor knot between balls of twine (forgot to add my half hitch on either side of my square knot) and caused the baler to make 4 bales without a left side twine. Not the balers fault. Fortunately that was the load coming to me and not my customer. So far I've made 20 some loads using the 68 and bale basket, which is well over 2K bales, and the old 68 has performed extremely well for a 57 year old machine that most people would walk on by without a second look. I have 3 bushings I want to replace, I need that pickup wheel/tire and I want to get a coat of paint on her but she's been a real trooper this year.
 
Boy, ya got me jealous Brett. That's a good days work up your way. It's always nice to have a barn full of hay. There's nothing better knowing that you can move a baler into a field and have confidence that it will work without any breakdowns...that's danged good for a 57 year old gal...
Slowly I'm getting mine overhauled and all of the weak spots fixed.

I didn't know until yesterday that if you extend your pto telescopic shaft out far enough, there's a grease zerk you can get to through an oval elongated hole. Mine is covered up when it's attached to the tractor. Good to know.

I'm chasing that small pickup tire as well. The correct part number (you get wheel and tire together) is 87041549.

Are you running sisal twine or poly twine Brett? If poly, do you run NH twine or just any brand such as Tractor Supply? I'm going to poly twine next year I believe. I understand it is really good.
 

Ron, I've given up on sisal entirely since I couldn't find any that was up to the standards of 15-20 years back locally. Went to plastic 7-8 years ago and never looked back. I use the TSC stuff simply out of habit. There's supposed to be a much less expensive alternative supplier over near LeRay NY that I have to look into.

Although there is apparently a listing for a "plastic" bill hook, mine has worked fine from day one. Did have to touch up the knife edge though!

IIRC that wheel assy is a 12" item. I can find 12" wheel and tire assys, but they all have tiny center bearings, whereas the 68 has something like a 3/4" bore. I have yet to find a parts 68 with the wheel assy intact.
 
I'm going to poly twine next year myself. I'm really putting the parts into this old gal and she'll shine next year. I can manufacture those plunger wooden bearings now and I've put a set of 4 hickory ones on ebay for $360. Hickory is harder than Locust, Maple, Red Oak and White Oak. But not as hard as Live Oak which we don't have here. Same set at NH is over $600. Hope it helps someone out.

I have ordered that tire from Messicks Brett. Turns out, you can't get it from NH any longer if you just want the tire. You get the wheel, bearing, and tire for $50 which is a bargain given what some things cost at NH. The parts diagram shows a bearing in the original wheel so I have to guess that the one that's headed my way also has a bearing..I'll take a pic and send it your way.
 

I have to order 2 of the 3 bearing I need and thought of getting the wheel assy while I was at it. Seems and awful lot of money for what you get to me. There has to be a cheap alternative out there, I just have to find it.
 

Here's one alternative. Not sure a poly wheel would hold up though. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200333272_200333272
 
By golly, if you could get that tire off that plastic rim Brett, the orig. wheel unbolts into two halves and it would fit right one. My wheel is heavy duty iron...I hate to replace it. Who knows, that wheel may work as is...just have to try it.
 
(quoted from post at 19:45:02 09/30/16)
Ron, I've given up on sisal entirely since I couldn't find any that was up to the standards of 15-20 years back locally. Went to plastic 7-8 years ago and never looked back. I use the TSC stuff simply out of habit. There's supposed to be a much less expensive alternative supplier over near LeRay NY that I have to look into.

Although there is apparently a listing for a "plastic" bill hook, mine has worked fine from day one. Did have to touch up the knife edge though!

IIRC that wheel assy is a 12" item. I can find 12" wheel and tire assys, but they all have tiny center bearings, whereas the 68 has something like a 3/4" bore. I have yet to find a parts 68 with the wheel assy intact.

Mine is still intact...plus I have another original wheel I took off of a 67 in case mine does decide to come apart.
 

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