NH 461 pulled by 8N??

Chuckk · Aug 9, 2016

Hello!! been lurking here for a long time and have a question. I have an opportunity to pick up a gently used 461 haybine for a very attractive price. I currently do 15 acres of hay a year and would like to reduce the amount of trips around the fields.

Current process is cut with JD#5, crimp with a NH 404, rake with JD 594, then bale with Ford 250 (with Wisconsin engine). I LOVE my little tractors and so far they fit in great with my operations. I do organic pork, chicken, and beef.

My question is dose anyone have experience pulling a 461 with a 8N or an AC-B?

Thanks!
Chuck

old · Aug 9, 2016

I have a NH460 and I sure would not try pulling it behind an 8N or the A/C B neither one has the HP needed to pull it and also run it. Plus weight wise the NH461 is at least as heavy if not almost half again as heavy as either one of those tractors. When I use my NH460 I pull it with my Oliver 77 which is around 38HP

NY 986 · Aug 9, 2016

Usually a 9 foot cut M-C needs at least 30 hp and we always liked 50 plus hp in heavy hay meaning 3 tons per acre or more first cutting or heavy alfalfa. Then there would be the issue of rigging up the hydraulics due to the 8N not having a remote hydraulic circuit in the conventional sense.

NY 986 · Aug 9, 2016

Just a personal preference but I always liked a row crop tractor for that kind of work as you can see a little ahead and to the side for downed branches, woodchuck holes, and young deer. Also, a row crop is less apt to drag hay under the belly because of the better clearance due to the profile versus a utility tractor.

Chuckk · Aug 9, 2016

Updated Info!

In not sure we are talking about the same model? The 461 I'm looking at is about 1500lbs. My 8n is around 3000lbs and can pull baler and hay rack no problems.

Both my 8n and AC-b have hydraulic hook ups. 8n pump runs off front of tractor.

My fields are currently very light. They haven't been worked in 20+ years before I got them. This is my 2nd year working them. They are a work in progress and are getting thicker with every cutting. Currently 80-85% grasses and 15-20% clover. I plan on over seeding them ether late fall early spring.

I do plan on getting a bigger tractor once I have the budget for it (in about 2 years, heart set on AC-D17!)

Whats the smallest anyone has tried to pull a 461 with?

Thanks!
Chuck

NY 986 · Aug 9, 2016

The front pump will help in terms of a hydraulic circuit but will not change the fact that 23-25 PTO HP is very marginal and that the 8N sits fairly low and will be more apt to drag hay. I helped a fellow years ago who had a 461 so I am familiar with how they are constructed. An 8N with a 461 in tow is one of those things I would do in a pinch versus doing it pre-planned. The lack of live PTO could be frustrating.

old · Aug 9, 2016

8N is around 2300-2500 lbs and I was told but have not had it on a scale that the NH460 I have comes in around 3500lbs. And as I said you lack HP to boot. I have pulled my NH460 with my D-17 a few times but the hyds not being true live causes odd problems and the lack of a true live PTO on the D-17 is also a small problem

M Nut · Aug 9, 2016

When we got our first haybine ( 9ft gehl 880) we tried pulling it with a d-14 allis chalmers (about 32 hp) and it was more than it wanted.
Switched over to an 861 (about 45 hp) ford, and it had the power, but sat low to the ground and the cut hay would catch and drag under the
tractor. Bought a 170 allis chalmers that winter and started using that on the haybine following spring. It worked great with plenty of clearance
and 55 hp.

DLMKA · Aug 9, 2016

I used my Oliver 77 (37hp) on a JD 1209 (9' sickle moco) and on flat ground it was okay. Going downhill was sketchy and making and uphill turn was an exercise in using brakes to get around the corner. Oliver 88 (43hp) has enough weight and it does okay on moco but prefer 1650 Oliver on it with power steering and wfe.

Get a tractor with live power and live hydraulics. Makes cutting and baling hay much more enjoyable.

Zachary Hoyt · Aug 9, 2016

I have a 461 and have run it with a Farmall H and a 300. The 300 is nicer with the IPTO and live hydraulics, plus a bit more power. I have some hills that are fairly steep but
my hay is very light. I would not try it with either of your current tractors, but that's just me. I ran mine once with a Massey 35 and it had enough power but traction was iffy
and I couldn't lift the head as I had no remote hydraulics.
Zach

Mike(NEOhio) · Aug 9, 2016

How wide is that 461, not familiar with it. I've been pulling a JD 1207 (2400 lbs) with a late 2000, 28hp and std PTO. Most of my corners are sloped to the outside in both directions so I often can't make a turn. Works it hard but it does just fine and I have some short but steep hills. 12.28s, loaded, but no other weight.

Brendon-KS · Aug 9, 2016

My FIL's 12-ft New Holland 490 gives my 40-hp Farmall 350 all it wants in heavy material. It's
first gear with an occasional pull of the T/A to slow down even more when swathing good oats. Your
mower is (I believe) a 9-ft but you only have around 25 hp to work with. (The 20-hp Allis B
wouldn't even be a consideration in my opinion - way too small and light.) Compounding the lack of
power would be the very fast (3+ mph) first gear of the 8N. And, a live PTO is nice when the
tractor's capabilities are limited since you can slip the clutch a bit or stop altogether to let
the mower clear out if you run into a nasty spot and bog down.

With the loader mounted and rear wheels ballasted my 350 weighs in at over 7000 lbs (over twice
what an 8N weighs) which is helpful to control the offset pull of a mower/conditioner.

rankrank1 · Aug 9, 2016

My opinion is a Farmall h (gasoline version - no distillate or kerosene model) is the absolute bare minimum for a mower like you are considering. As many people will tell an h is not much of a tractor but it is a heck of a lot more tractor than an 8N.

I have run my Hesston 1120 (9' sickle based mower conditioner equivalent of a haybine) on many occasion with my lowly Farmall h. It handles it okay but I would not want any less of a tractortractor either. My Hesston 1120 is one heavy son of a gun. The Farmall M handles the mower much better.

Haybines are heavier than they look, lots of tongue weight, and the offset hitch creates side draft.

If you dead set farming with the 8N's then simply continue with a plain ole sickle mower. *N's handle plain sickles great. If you want that haybine it means another tractor...

Chuckk · Aug 10, 2016

Thank you everyone for your responses; much appreciated! I'm going to get it and put it in the back of the shed until I have a tractor big enough to handle it. I've been saving so hopefully within 2 years I'll have a tractor that will work for it.

With only 15 acres the couple of hours it would save me are not that big of a deal so I'll stick with the old way. In 2 years I should be up to 30-40 acres so it will be a big time saver then.

Thanks!!

Chuck

Bill VA · Aug 10, 2016

If you are going to buy the 461 anyway, give it a try. Keep the PTO up to speed and ground speed down, if the hay is light, it might work -
nothing to loose.

Good luck,
Bill

Traditional Farmer · Aug 10, 2016

Yea but if he gets to the bottom of the hill how is he going to get back up?

Bill VA · Aug 10, 2016

Open the gate, drive around the road back to the house....

Chuckk · Aug 11, 2016

I have my final cut of the session coming up in 2-3 weeks. I give it a try and post how it goes. Should be interesting!

Thanks!
Chuck

Chuckk · Jul 16, 2017

Hello! I know it's an old post but wanted to give an update. I bought a Case 400 last year so I never tried the 8n. Well as luck would have it the case decided to have last minute starting trouble ( bad condencer) and my weather window closing fast. So I hooked the NH 461 to the old 8n and went to work. It will run it!!! She doesn't like it but it did 10 acres and saved the day!

Ran mostly in second but had to drop to 1st on the steep hill. That being said I don't recommend using a 8n to run a haybine. Took 3times longer than the case 400. It will work in a pinch but it is not something I would want to make a habit of.

Good day!!
Chuck

rankrank1 · Jul 16, 2017

Sometimes necessity strikes and dictates what has to happen.

Regardless, 2nd gear on an N is flying with that cutter and so few hp. surprised it was not 1st gear always which is still fast on an N.

Glad it worked, but I know I would not want anything less than a Farmall h on my cutter and even then I have a choice of a couple gears slower than an N in first

Chuckk · Jul 16, 2017

I do have to admit my fields are not top notch by any means. I'm guessing I'll be getting around 500- 600 bales from 10 acres. (1st cutting). First time I have 3 days in a row without rain!! Should have final count tomorrow when I bale it.

The tallest stand was at the bottom of a steep hill and the grass was over my head and I'm 6'2". Had to drop to 1st for that and had to clear 3 or 4 jams due to the 8ns high speed.

She will get a full service job when I'm done as I know it was hard on her. Raking is being done by AC b and baled by Ford 250 with Wisconsin engine. I know it's old equipment but it's paid for and a fella has to start somewhere

Marc Mi · Jul 17, 2017

(quoted from post at 23:28:39 07/16/17) I do have to admit my fields are not top notch by any means. I'm guessing I'll be getting around 500- 600 bales from 10 acres. (1st cutting). First time I have 3 days in a row without rain!! Should have final count tomorrow when I bale it.

The tallest stand was at the bottom of a steep hill and the grass was over my head and I'm 6'2". Had to drop to 1st for that and had to clear 3 or 4 jams due to the 8ns high speed.

She will get a full service job when I'm done as I know it was hard on her. Raking is being done by AC b and baled by Ford 250 with Wisconsin engine. I know it's old equipment but it's paid for and a fella has to start somewhere

I can relate to your challenge... A few years ago I had only a 2N to work with and a good weather window to put up 3 acres

We cut it with a NH 46 sickle trailer mower, raked with a JD 850 bar rake, and baled with a NH super hayliner 68 (PTO driven) Not ideal, but put up good dry hay. I did add a HYD outlet to the test port and chained down the rockshaft arms thanks to knowledge from this site.

Marc Mi · Jul 17, 2017

33 acres, not 3

NH 461 pulled by 8N??

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