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This old disc II

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DieselVol

Member
Now that we've established that my disc is a model 37, 12 ft, built between 1963 and 1966, I'm ready to get rolling. Is there something like a service manual that describes disassembly and repair? Ever seen a thread where somebody documented how they did it? Any advice to offer?
I have seen a picture where somebody turned a smaller disc upside down to work on it. That would be difficult to impossible with a 12 ft and would likely break it, I think. Do you remove the gangs intact and then take them apart, or leave them where they are and pull the axel?
As you can tell fron the questions, I'm not sure where to start. Any help appreciated.
 
Set it right on the ground.. Loosen the gang nut first. then loosen/remove the bearing holders from the frame and roll it out
from under.May be ncessary to remove scrapers.Then you can dismantle the gang and replace whatever parts are needed. Handyman
jack,long prybar,sledge hammer(come-a-long helpfull) will be needed.Buy bearings,spools,blades from Shoup. wwwshoupparts.com And
yes,it is a lot of work.......
 
If it is like most, shove a 4 X 4 between the disc and the frame, there should be a nut on one end of each disc gang, check if it has a flat type washer with wings under the nut. If so bend the tabs down so the nut will turn, grab the biggest pipe wrench you have, apply large amounts of penetrant and try to turn the nut (cheater pipe will most likely be required). Be prepared to spend some time on this. The last time I did my JD I ended up torching the nut, after using a 2' wrench with about 3' of cheater on it. After you have the gang bolts loose on all four you should be able to drop the gang carriers and roll the gangs out and dissemble them. When reassembling reverse order and TIGHTEN the gang bolts, tighten as much as you can and then take a BFH and hit the gang bolt on the opposite end, tighten some more and do it again until you have no more slack, then bent the lock tabs down. the biggest enemy of disc blades is looseness. if you have rocks a loose blade is more likely to break. Hope this helps.
 
Any place for an impact wrench in all this? Are there any specific torque wrench numbers available? I'm thinking when we hit it with a BFH, that'll probably be no.
 
I use an impact to remove the scrapers. But for the gang bolt,no way an impact will do those.As for "torque". TIGHT!!!
 
I recently replaced some bearings and disk blades on my 370 disk, just a newer version of your 37. The way I did mine might not be as quick as some of the other ways mentioned, but being alone it works for me. First I get the main gang nut lose with a pipe wrench with disk on the ground. Then I raise the disk and remove the all the scrapers as unit by unbolting the bar they attach to. Then I remove all the disks from the gang bolt to the 1st bearing. I then unbolt the hanger bolts starting at the one nearest the disks I removed. Once the hanger is removed, I unbolt the bearing and slide it off the shaft. Then I remove all the disks up to the next bearing. I then remove next hanger & bearing etc. Eventually you end up with just the shaft with a couple of disks blades on the end. I just reverse the procedure to install new bearings and or blades. Anyhow this procedure does work when you are all alone. Al
a223938.jpg
 
Note: Be sure that the discs are clean before you tighten the shaft. Have a hammer ready when you tighten the shaft. Periodically hit a disc until the dull "thud" goes away and the disc will "ring". I was taught when the disc has a "ring" to it, that is tight enough.
 
(quoted from post at 21:49:55 04/15/16) I recently replaced some bearings and disk blades on my 370 disk, just a newer version of your 37. The way I did mine might not be as quick as some of the other ways mentioned, but being alone it works for me. First I get the main gang nut lose with a pipe wrench with disk on the ground. Then I raise the disk and remove the all the scrapers as unit by unbolting the bar they attach to. Then I remove all the disks from the gang bolt to the 1st bearing. I then unbolt the hanger bolts starting at the one nearest the disks I removed. Once the hanger is removed, I unbolt the bearing and slide it off the shaft. Then I remove all the disks up to the next bearing. I then remove next hanger & bearing etc. Eventually you end up with just the shaft with a couple of disks blades on the end. I just reverse the procedure to install new bearings and or blades. Anyhow this procedure does work when you are all alone. Al
a223938.jpg
Click to expand...
This will prove to be useful advice, as I'll be worse off than working alone: I'll have 2 teenage sons "helping" me!
 
Do you tight the gang back up on or off of the frame? What do you use to hold the axel still while you tighten?
 
You use the weight of the frame to keep things from turning when trying to tighten. And I have had to cut the nuts off with a cutting disk on an angle grinder. And the operators manuals do give assembly directions.
 
This is the way I would do it. Take the nut off with all the weight on blades you can get and the gang might still turn. If that happens to get more holding power for turning you might be able to take C clamps and clamp on blade so they will hit the scrapers for a stop when the axle turns.
 
Good to know. I'll get one of those manuals ordered. I assume you pick up the whole frame periodically as you tight so as to let it all come together without bending a disc?
 
I'm sure at one point in their lives these discs were 16", as that's the smallest I've seen offered on this model. They all now measure 14-14.5". Is it going to be an issue when I put several 16s amongst these 14s? Replacing them all will get pretty spendy.
 
No need to "periodically pick up to prevent bending a blade". Once snugged up,they wont move.BTW,The end casting(right next to
the nut) will have 'flats'. put a wrench on that as backup to keep the gang from turning.I acctually made a 'wrench' just for
that.
 
I don't see a 14" disc offered, as in it looks like it never was. Do outside discs wear down faster for some reason? Should I replace them with 16" ones even if they aren't broken?
 
That disk should have 18" blades or possibly even 20" depending on if it is the 7" blade spacing or the 9" blade spacing. For the 7" the blades at 16" are completely wore out, at 17" they are already getting wore down to the point they are not doing a good job, it is the blade when they get wore down you loose the concavity of the blade and to make up for that loss you have to keep giving the gang more angleand with the smaller diameter the blades will not cur as deep, deep enough to do the job you are wanting the disk to do. A 14" blade taking into consideration the bearings you have a max cut depth of 4" and with those small blades you will be doing at least 2 or 3 more trips to get field cut up for planting, this again crom the curve of the blade and size, so not only are you spending a lot more time working the ground you are spending more on tractor expence pluss a lot more fuell. So the cost of those larger blades if you look at the more expence you have with the small blades the cost per acreis not that buch more than trying to work with something that is wore out. If there is one more blade on back gang than front then it should be on an extender and be about 4" smaller than the rest and that is for filling in the furrow cut by the outside blade of the back gang and the more angle you have on the gangs the greater that furrow will be. And they are easy to break off if you hit a fence post ortree as they make it a lot wider than you realize. A 7' blade spacing should not need them but a 9" will as a 19" blade is already wore out.
 
It's a 7" space, 10 blades in each gang, front and rear. The Case/IH parts manual shows 16, 18, and 20" discs available. So could it have come with 16s? I know where this disc has been and what it's been doing since about 1970, and it's really not been worked very hard since then, and almost not at all since about 1984.
 
Also, if I decide to replace them all, can I just pick 18 or 20"? Are there any differences in the overall machine when it originally had the larger discs (different bearings, etc.)?
 
Just thickness of blades. Some 20" are quite a bit thicker and may make it hard to get the nut on axle. As far as that thickness on the bearings they are mounted adjustable on the frame.
 
X2 but to clarify "tight"- we're talking at least 5-600 ft lbs. heavy duty wrench or socket/drive, big cheater pipe, and put all your weight on it. if there is ANY give between the discs and the spacers, they will wear and get loose in just a few acres. if you get it TIGHT, it should stay tight for hundreds of acres.
 
(quoted from post at 19:03:43 04/16/16) X2 but to clarify "tight"- we're talking at least 5-600 ft lbs. heavy duty wrench or socket/drive, big cheater pipe, and put all your weight on it. if there is ANY give between the discs and the spacers, they will wear and get loose in just a few acres. if you get it TIGHT, it should stay tight for hundreds of acres.
Click to expand...
I bought a copy of the owner's manual online tonight. Apparently, when you bought one of these back in the day, you got to put it together yourself. They called for 500 lb/ft of torque on the gang bolt. You're a pretty good guesser!
 
(quoted from post at 18:51:42 04/16/16) Just thickness of blades. Some 20" are quite a bit thicker and may make it hard to get the nut on axle. As far as that thickness on the bearings they are mounted adjustable on the frame.
Click to expand...
I must say that you've got me thinking about upgrading. All I'm going to do with this is strip disc CRP land, once a year typically. That'll include some waist high natural grasses, small woody vegetation, and some brambles. I can bush hog first and then run the disc as is, or if I go to all 20" notched blades, I think the notching and extra weight may allow me to just run over it once and cut up all I need. Your point about the extra cost being offset by time, wear and tear, and fuel savings is starting to make sense.
 
(quoted from post at 20:24:46 04/15/16) I use an impact to remove the scrapers. But for the gang bolt,no way an impact will do those.As for "torque". TIGHT!!!
Click to expand...
My impact wrench (Dewalt) goes up to 650 lb/ft of torque, which would exceed the original torque on these nuts. However, those numbers do not include 50 years of rust. Is there a reason not to at least try the impact wrench?
 
In terms of working on them I usually just remove the gang from the inner hanger and swing the gang towards the center of the machine and
pull the gang bolt to the inside, disassembling the blades in place. Reassembly I loosen the outer hanger from the beam but not remove
it... then I can pound the gang tight by moving the hanger on the gang bolt.
Always clean the gang bolt threads with a wire brush before you start disassembly. Use lots of lube... and either a good 3/4" or 1" impact
or a LONG bar on a 3/4" drive. You'll need to chock the blades with a piece of wood so the gang doesn't turn if you're using a bar.
The smaller blades you see on the outside are outriggers. They're just there to cut down on the ridging from the front gang. The front gang
may have smaller ones just to cut down on that too.... or it may just be that it had some broken blades and some old ones got put on the
outside.
If you want to go with larger blades, measure from the gang bolt to the closest frame point and see how much clearance you have. Subtract
1" and double that figure and that would give you the max blade size I would run. Another VERY important factor to consider is the actual
lift of the wheels. If you put too much blade on it, you may find the wheels are not big enough to get the front blades off the ground....
Something to be very careful of.
Generally I think an IH 37 can run a 20" blade without a problem.... but check it.

Rod
 
(quoted from post at 18:51:42 04/16/16) Just thickness of blades. Some 20" are quite a bit thicker and may make it hard to get the nut on axle. As far as that thickness on the bearings they are mounted adjustable on the frame.
Click to expand...
The 20" blades are a few millimeters thicker, but there are 10 of them, so it adds up. The (hopefully) attached photo shows how much thread I have left on th axel. Think that's enough?
 
When I do it I shut off the tractor and then let gravity lower the disk so that the bolts can be
removed from the hangers. Before removing anything I take the end nut loose. Then I raise the
disk up and roll the gang out. I pull it all apart and lay it out on the ground in order. As I take off
each disk and cone I use a one inch putty knife to get any dirt off. When it is time to go back
together I stand it up and stand on the tailgate of the pickup. I have a helper hand me the pieces
and then have them help me lower it. If it's someone with some grunt we can usually do it. If not, I
use the skid steer to lay it down. I use three one inch rachet straps to rachet it back up to the
hangers. That way you can have some wiggle to get things lined up.

It is important to get those blades clean so they are a tight fit. You need them to be complete with
no gaps caused by "junk" as it will cause the whole thing to work loose. I double nut mine or use
some locktight if there isn't enough thread left.

If you are stuck between matchup sizes on your replacement choose the smaller for your
replacement. If you are even a half inch bigger that disk will want to dig to China and throw more
dirt - you will end up with a ridge in every pass that will be really annoying. The new one will be
thicker so the others in that gang will wear down to it sooner rather than later.

The only thing I hate as much as fixing fence is fixing the disk. I have an end disk that's broken on
the disk right now. I just disked a 40 with it like that because I hate working on it so much.

Oh, and don't booger up those threads. I learned the hard way - the square axle for mine was
over $500 about 10 years ago. Since then I have treated them like gold.
 
You are correct that if you put larger blades on it, you might have trouble with the front blades hitting the ground a bit when raised. My 14 ft. IH 370 has 18" blades, but for some reason it came with 14" wheels. So I replaced the wheels with 15" and put on the largest car tires I could find. Think they were some old Michelin 225-15 x 15. Now I get about 5 to 6 inches clearance in front when the disk is lifted. Al
 
I just called a place called Messick's and they have the bolts for mine in stock at $77 each. I don't plan to booger one up, but if I do, at least it won't destroy the whole project.
 
One other consideration before I pull the trigger: I'm pulling this with a John Deere 5500, an 83 hp tractor with the forward assist 4 wd. I'm planning on the 20" notched all the way round. I think I can pull this no problem, as the forward assist greatly increases the traction. Anybody disagree?
 
You'll pull it.... but it will probably struggle at times depending on how it's ballasted and how well it cuts. Discing on hard ground is one
thing. Sinking a 20" blade to the gang bolts in plowed sand is another thing entirely....
Shoup is usually the way to go for disc parts, IIRC. If you're getting blades try to get the ones that only have one square cut in them. If
you have to go with something that has two different size holes cut at 45 deg from each other.... use the one that has the larger size being
the gang bolt you have... otherwise they just round off.

Rod
 
If he has self lever that might be a problem, crank no. The self lever to get around that I just took a piece of iron that would fit in the self lever and made sure it could not drop out and just put it in druring transport. Out while working.
 
I've got the crank. I managed to ge about 6" clearance with it as is, so I ought to have about 4" when finished. There's no need to get out on the road where I'll be using it, so as long as I don't try run too fast, I think it'll work.
 
(quoted from post at 20:40:01 04/18/16) You'll pull it.... but it will probably struggle at times depending on how it's ballasted and how well it cuts. Discing on hard ground is one
thing. Sinking a 20" blade to the gang bolts in plowed sand is another thing entirely....
Shoup is usually the way to go for disc parts, IIRC. If you're getting blades try to get the ones that only have one square cut in them. If
you have to go with something that has two different size holes cut at 45 deg from each other.... use the one that has the larger size being
the gang bolt you have... otherwise they just round off.

Rod
Click to expand...
Ok, I think I've got what you're saying. I've looked at every blade available to man and thought you were saying "don't get the two sized models.' Mine has 1 1/8" square axels. What you're really saying is "if you buy the variable size, buy the one for 1" and 1 1/8", DO NOT buy the 1 1/8" and 1 1/4", since the extra size for the 1 1/4" will cause it to round off." Is that right?
 
Agri Supply has the corect blade for your disk, 20" notched with 1 1/8" square hole and 3.5MM thick for $14.14 each, You would have shipping on top. The 3.0 MM is a bit thin and the 4MM or thicker are for newer heavier disks and that is what you would only find a Schoups. You go with thicker you might or might not have enough axle threads, the thicker would not break as easy but they are desinged for disks weighing a thousand pounds more than yours so that weight helps the thick blade penetrate the soil, with your disk the 3.5 blades would be same as orignal factory so should penetrate better and you should not have to worry about breaking one. Agri supply might be a bit softer and wear a bit faster but I don't think you are going to be using it enough that it would be a problem and the softer blades if you do hit a rock chances are you might get a slight bend the edge of blade (I have when that happened used 2 heavy hammers and straightened that spot) the harded blades for more wear will instad of doing that bending will crack. What you will find at about all places is the conical type that just about every other maker used instead of the flat center blades that IHC used and they work better than the flat center blades. I ran a 37 disk for years. In past I have checked Schoups blades but they did not supply the sizes I would have needed and I thought they were way double overpriced on there blades that the few they did have.
 
(quoted from post at 08:30:28 04/21/16) Agri Supply has the corect blade for your disk, 20" notched with 1 1/8" square hole and 3.5MM thick for $14.14 each, You would have shipping on top. The 3.0 MM is a bit thin and the 4MM or thicker are for newer heavier disks and that is what you would only find a Schoups. You go with thicker you might or might not have enough axle threads, the thicker would not break as easy but they are desinged for disks weighing a thousand pounds more than yours so that weight helps the thick blade penetrate the soil, with your disk the 3.5 blades would be same as orignal factory so should penetrate better and you should not have to worry about breaking one. Agri supply might be a bit softer and wear a bit faster but I don't think you are going to be using it enough that it would be a problem and the softer blades if you do hit a rock chances are you might get a slight bend the edge of blade (I have when that happened used 2 heavy hammers and straightened that spot) the harded blades for more wear will instad of doing that bending will crack. What you will find at about all places is the conical type that just about every other maker used instead of the flat center blades that IHC used and they work better than the flat center blades. I ran a 37 disk for years. In past I have checked Schoups blades but they did not supply the sizes I would have needed and I thought they were way double overpriced on there blades that the few they did have.
Click to expand...
Well, it's a good thing you responded. I was just about to pull the trigger on the Case/IH $38 each, 15 pound blades. They are the latest, greatest thing, but if the bolt won't go back on, that's bad. Are you saying to get the flat centered ones or to NOT get the flat centered?
 
Never mind, I reread what you said and looked at agrisupply and found the blades. I guess 1mm thickness could make a difference, but $24 price difference definitely makes a difference. I ordered them. Still waiting on a price for shipping, but unless it's a huge amount, the ones you suggested have got to be a better option. Thanks.
 
1MM on 10 blades and that is what a 12' disk ( actually called a 12'2" disk with the 7" spacing) would take per gang is .4" I just looked that up on the net. Those dealer blades were they the flat center or not? I am just wondering if they still make them. The disk I was thinking about blades on would have been an 18" blade in 3 MM thickness but we just decided it was too much work for time we had to buy the disk, rebuild it and sell it but those little 7 on a side Kewanee disks are a very desireable disk to the Amish farmers. The 37 IHC that I had it was 30 years ago we changed from flat center and it is still working with the same blades we put on. Probably got them at TSC when they were actually a farm parts store.
 
Mine was 7 blade 8' 8" size. I also had a 12' Kewanee and pulled it with a 60 HP Ford, the IHC I pulled with a 38 HP John Deere A so I don't think you should have any problems. That is what is called a finnishing disk the one you would have trouble pulling is a plowing or rough cut disk. I also pulled that 12' with the same John Deere in conditiond sounding like you are going to have. First time over plowed ground would have been too much for that A
 
Yes, they were flat center. They are available both from Case/IH and from Shoup, though they're not the same blade, just the same style. I'm concerned that the curved blades may take up some space as well, but that 500 lb/ft of torque may flatten the curve such that it won't matter. I have about 3/4" of threads to play with and an extra $900 in my pocket after ordering the ones you suggested.
 
(quoted from post at 18:59:53 04/21/16) Mine was 7 blade 8' 8" size. I also had a 12' Kewanee and pulled it with a 60 HP Ford, the IHC I pulled with a 38 HP John Deere A so I don't think you should have any problems. That is what is called a finnishing disk the one you would have trouble pulling is a plowing or rough cut disk. I also pulled that 12' with the same John Deere in conditiond sounding like you are going to have. First time over plowed ground would have been too much for that A
Click to expand...
I wanted the dealer blades for the hardness and the weight, but I'm only giving up about 1.5 lbs per blade and your comment on hardness makes sense. Plus, $900 is $900...
 
Yes, that's what I'm saying.... you have 1-1/8" axle so get the blade that is for 1" and 1-1/8". Preferably, don't get the two size blade at
all, but if you must.... get the 1 and 1-1/8"

Rod
 
I found the ones with 1 1/8" holes only and they're on the way. Getting all the parts and tools together and hope to get started in the morning.
 
So the buffoonery begins. Not one wrench I need with me. I bought a 1 1/8" impact socket for the gang bolts as that's what size they list as replacement. As I realize now, that's the thread size. The nut is much bigger. I'm measuring it at 1 5/8" with a tape. Does that sound right? Shockingly, I actually own one of those, it's just not here at the farm...
 
(quoted from post at 09:19:10 04/23/16) So the buffoonery begins. Not one wrench I need with me. I bought a 1 1/8" impact socket for the gang bolts as that's what size they list as replacement. As I realize now, that's the thread size. The nut is much bigger. I'm measuring it at 1 5/8" with a tape. Does that sound right? Shockingly, I actually own one of those, it's just not here at the farm...
Click to expand...

FWIW, the actual size on that gang bolt nut is 42mm. I happen to have a 1 5/8" and a 42mm. The 42mm fits perfectly. Can't imagine why IH used a metric size 50 years ago, but it appears they did.
 
(quoted from post at 21:49:55 04/15/16) I recently replaced some bearings and disk blades on my 370 disk, just a newer version of your 37. The way I did mine might not be as quick as some of the other ways mentioned, but being alone it works for me. First I get the main gang nut lose with a pipe wrench with disk on the ground. Then I raise the disk and remove the all the scrapers as unit by unbolting the bar they attach to. Then I remove all the disks from the gang bolt to the 1st bearing. I then unbolt the hanger bolts starting at the one nearest the disks I removed. Once the hanger is removed, I unbolt the bearing and slide it off the shaft. Then I remove all the disks up to the next bearing. I then remove next hanger & bearing etc. Eventually you end up with just the shaft with a couple of disks blades on the end. I just reverse the procedure to install new bearings and or blades. Anyhow this procedure does work when you are all alone. Al
a223938.jpg
Click to expand...

To clarify, using your technique, I'll need to remove the u-bolts that hold the support brackets on, as well as the support brackets themselves. Correct?
 
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