Square Bale Tightness - A Rule of Thumb

Bill VA

Well-known Member
By the end of last summer, we got the consistent bale length figured out - combo of knotter trip arm and smaller/higher number of flakes. We get a pretty consistent 32 inch bale of hay.

However, as the day and humidity changes, so does the bale density or as I convey to my kids, the strings lift higher off the bale. The strings aren't as tight.

I think that rather than weigh bales - hours into the hay, I'd like to say - if the strings pull off the bale "X" inches, you need to tighten or loosed the bale chamber tension springs. We'll figure that out.

I've read of bales so tight you have to pry your fingers under the strings and have seen strings loose enough that they pull off the bale 7 or 8 inches.

Question is - for your square bales of hay, what is your "inches pulled off the bale" that you find acceptable and/or trigger you to tighten or loosen the cranks, hydraulic tension or air bag tension?

With a constant bale length, I like the idea of giving my kids a rule of thumb, if the string pulls up "this" much, then we need to stop and adjust the baler.

Just curious.

Thanks!
Bill
 
Honestly, if I may - I'd say you're trying to micromanage your kids, and you're overthinking the baling process!

There are just too many variables to have THAT much control over the process. I can be the same way, wanting everything perfect, but my advice: Learn to let it go.

You'll do better by your kids by letting them know you trust their judgement.

Density is one thing, but so is weight - For instance, you can have super tight bale where the twine's still going to lift off the bale 8 inches because the bale weighs 80 pounds. In other words, you don't want to be punching data into a computer to figure out the right number; humidity, grass type, weed content, twine manufacturer, width of hands picking up the bale, water content, etc etc etc.

This is NOT an exact science, it's personal preference, and you just need to know what "feels" right.

Try telling a hay customer your bales are all perfect because the twine lifts off exactly 3 inches. It's just not going to matter to them when they pick them up and they only weigh 20 pounds.

When you come across a bale you think feels good, have your kids feel it. Ask them what they think. Work together towards picking out good examples.

If you're selling it, know your customer and what they think is a good bale. I think you'll find you're probably not far off between what you think is good and what they think is good - without taking out yardsticks or scales.

The one thing that's MUCH more important than perfectly consistent bales is a couple of kids who ENJOY baling - that enjoyment will be greatly amplified if they're making their own decisions out there in the field.
 
I re-read my reply for typos - and realized my reply sounded a lot "preach-ier" than I intended, but I can't edit it! The point I was trying to make was it's better to have everybody "knowing" what a good bale feels like. And the only way to do that is give it time for the feel to develop. It'l happen.
 
Firstly - I don't need a lecture from ANYONE on raising,my kids.

Secondly - just trying to make a little conversation on a cold January day.

Thirdly - as I told a friend of mine and a fellow YT member (who rarely posts) - I generally know the answer to the questions I ask, but I'm thinking, if I'm asking the question, there's probably others who have a similar question and a need for an answer. So I post. I know that the posts that Kelly C made regarding haying, New Holland balers and Farmall tractors from over 10 years ago have been a great reference. Hopefully my posts will return the favor down the road for so some else too.

Fourth - I probably DO ask to many questions, so I think I'll ratchet it back.

Bill
 
There is no "rule of thumb". As was said,the kids will tell you. They will learn how much is right....too loose/too tight.They already know what is acceptable or not.Set the baler to where you like it and bale.
 
Yes Bill, IMHO its pretty straightforward - the answer is to teach the bale stacker son to know what a perfect bale feels like. IIRC you have a chute baler so this should be pretty easy. I ?try? to do this but I have a belt thrower so I am not handling every bale. Besides, if I made each bale exactly 44.4 lbs and 36 inches long I would be spoiling my customers and they would expect that every time (all while complaining $4 is too much!).
This question does bring up something I have observed on my operation?.a bale can feel perfect when pulled off the wagon and placed on the elevator. Then 4 months later when its loaded back out to the customer it does not feel so perfect any more.
 
I not an expert by any means but proper bale tightness depends a lot on consistent windrow density and baler speed. In some types of hay the twine tightness will never be very tight.
 
Don't get your feelings hurt. He was just thinking out loud and not trying to instruct you.

I've always tried to get 34" bales and 30/ton, or 67 lbs per bale.

People are wimps now, they like 50# bales. Why am I trying to give away hay if it's priced per bale. My dad did a lot of custom baling in the 1940's, but that was all done by the ton, they would use a scale to weigh several bales from around the field to even out field conditions.

Adjusting bale tension during baling is a pain in the donkey. I wire tie and if the wires come up an inch the bales are too loose for me. But I haul with a NH bale wagon and it works better if the bales are consistent, so I try to check them occasionally. My JD 347 is pretty well worn and I can usually tell by the sound if the plunger is going in too easily. A little too tight and I get an uncomfortable thump on each stroke. But if I try to just go by feel I make a mess. When I handle them in the barn I always use on hay hook and rarely try to pick them up by the wires, they're still pretty tight all year. I'm feeding two square bales each morning to some steers I'm fattening. Going to try to sell some square bales at a premium about March.
 
Bill, I enjoy reading your posts.. I made my own air packer for my n.h. 273. Cost of 125 bucks. Works really well and can pack the snot out of bales if I so choose.. But I don't. I bale a 36" bale just because when stacked perpendicular I have a square pile. My preference. Also with my air packer I installed a air dial so I can know and see what kind of bale its producing from tractor. For instance: I like a bale that pops out (55lbs) when my dial sits at lets say 10 till 12 oclock on my dial that about what the bale will be. If I get into dryer material or wetter material that needle moves.. lesser on the scale if dryer and will go up when wetter. I like knowing and seeing that when Im on the tractor and I can hop off and turn air up or down to get that "55" bale when I start and as I progress can adjust if the hay dries out etc. Worst thing is you have to keep air tank with you to refil if you have something go wrong. I built in a "holding" tank that rides on baler but still bring about 80 lbs with me to the field. THis of course is only a problem when I'm not at home place. But its made to take off and I can put the mechanicals on in minutes if need be. Good luck
 
Bill,

I tighten the bales any time the twine comes off the bale by about an inch when the bale is lifted. You know that it all varies based on a bunch of factors, but that's my "rule-of thumb". The bales stay together well on the wagon and in the barn.

Tom in TN
 
I have had bales vary greatly on the same load in the same field, same settings of the baler. I am the kid on the wagon so I see them all. Vary from "Holy cow - there's a dead body in there!" To "will this one make it to the barn?" All on same field. Depends on conditions. Seems like moisture content is one variable that changes bale density. And that will vary throughout the field. Guess you have to try for a happy average. If I try to make bales too tight, baler will start having knotting problems.
 
Bill, please refer to my added-on comment - I realized quickly that my wording sounded a little holier-than-thou and preachy, I didn't mean it to sound that way at all, I just - very frustratingly- couldn't fix it.

A lot gets lost when you're typing vs. talking in person. All of my comments are said in the friendliest way here.

I do think if you re-read what you wrote and put yourself in a reader's spot who doesn't know you from a hole in the wall - when you say your bales are coming out X inches long etc., and you're trying to figure a measurement of twine lift - you can see why I pictured kids out in the field with dial calipers to make sure they're doing it right.

I'm exaggerating that image, in a lighthearted way - but the point is, I know that's not your intent, but even so you ARE over thinking it. That's not a criticism, it's sharing of experience.

Trying to standardize the process to the level you're talking about will drive you insane. I know because I've been there, I'm sure many of us have been. There really are just too many variables to make it practical and workable, so all I'm trying to do is turn you off of that path.

My advice isn't parenting advice, it's management advice. To improve your product, improve your help. It sounds like you've got the technical aspectsd of the process down as much as one can, so don't over-think it now.

Work with your kids to develop the right feel, involve them in the decision making and you'll all be in synch. The instant any of you pick up a bale, you'll just know if it's right. You will have a stronger self-reliant hay team that way.

If you're selling your hay - your customers are going to be the ones that truly determine what's good and what's bad. If you have a customer complain that the bales feel too loose or too tight - feel the bale yourself - get to know their tastes. If they're a good customer, bale some hay just for them the way they like it if you can.

There's no right and wrong here. It's all personal preference.

So Again - sorry we got off on the wrong foot there. Just trying to share what I've learned.

If you want a standard - you'd have to focus more on weight and water content. But around here - even that's over-thinking it. A bale is a bale, as long as it just "feels right". A little frustrating to the technically minded, but that's just how it is.
 
One other caveat here - I'm speaking as a new englander. You may live in a part of the country where conditions are much more even and predictable.

Around here - there's such radical variation from year to year, or even day to day, field to field, that I think of such a measurement as entirely impractical.
 
Not trying to hijack the post.But if the plunger is
knocking too loud you probably have worn plunger
arm bushings.
 

Bill,

You have that 68 NH don't you? If you make the bales extremely tight, the baler will let you know because you will break more shear bolts, at least that was the case with the 67 NH I had.

If the twine pulls way off the bale and the bale is heavy, then the hay is too green, with most hay anyway. I don't claim any experience with alfalfa.

I think you said you also got a JD square baler. I think it is a later model that can pack hay tighter with out having shear bolt issues.

Re WEIGHT of bales: That is an individual opinion matter. I never did like very heavy bales, handling them makes you old before your time.

Re: SIZE of bales: My opinion is that the bale should be twice as long as it is wide because bales of that size can be stacked more neatly, resulting in more bales in the same area,

KEH
 
Personally... I don't like baling hay that suffers from density changes to the bale through the day. If it's doing that, it's not dry enough for my liking. So my answer to that is to put yer hands under yer arse and sit on them till it drys. Around here anyway, if we go baling that kind of stuff it always gets dusty.
In terms of string... I think depending on what weight you want, the string shouldn't lift very much. We aim for 50-55# bales at 32" and the strings are always hard to grab on those. If they're lightened up to around 40-45# then they're still reasonably snug but easy to grab. When they start busting knots in 9000 poly... they're just about the right weight for me LOL. I had to switch to 7200 poly for knot strength...
All else being equal, I prefer heavier bales because we're handling them mechanically and heavy bales handle better. If you're handling by hand you probably don't want them much over 45#?

Rod
 
I make 36 inch bales and I try to keep them at 50 pounds. Since I am using a wire baler too (old IH 47) I could very easily have 70-80 pound bales but then I would be giving away hay as all the horse people know the price of hay "by the bale" and don't know a thing about pricing hay by the ton. At 50 pounds my 13 year old and 15 year old can both stack hay without killing them in the heat. I've had a few buyers pick from the field and while they might comment about "light bales" on the phone after they've loaded 40 to 100 I've never had one complain about them being too light.


I usually check the bales several times the first couple rounds on a patch and then every half an hour afterwards as the sun dries the windrows (hopefully). I usually don't have much variance in a 4-5 hour period as most of the drying took place before it went into windrows and only a little more on the top happens while in the windrow. In the course of 4 hours I'll tighten the chute three more turns per side - usually one turn at a time an hour.

The wire does give some on my bales (more than most people are used to with wire), but since I've never used hooks as long as I can get gloved fingers under the wire with a little effort its "tight" enough. I've worked with guys who make iron cubes that you can't handle without hooks because the bales are too tight to get a finger under the wire and the bale weighs about 90-110 pounds each. With the antique machinery I'm using it just seems like you're making everything work harder than it really has to (including the humans) just to save a little wire and give away the extra weight. Especially with it seeming like all the "horse people" are actually women - giving them a bale they can lift doesn't hurt either.
 

Make consistent windows if possible and make sure everything is dry before starting.

I bale on ground, only check tension every 50 bales or so.

I've seen SOGGY bales with loose string, and dry ones TIGHT and both weighed the same...
 
We had a number 276 baler and had to adjust for conditions . If you kicked bales over the back of the wagon they wer too loose . If they landed in the wagon like a brick and couldn't hit the back too tight. We switched to 575 hydraulic tension and it self adjusts somewhat which makes it easier to have anyone run baler. But have to stay in same gear and windrow size
 
Round here, As tight as possible; AKA almost to the point the baler and strings(9000 sisal) beg for mercy. Run average around 45-50lbs. completely dry. Never readjust when baling(once set), unless having too many problems. Then we stack on edge(strings around sides) in the barn and they stay tighter.

Helped neighbor for a time his were so loose they almost bent in half when picked up, Pain to handle and stack.

All it comes to is your preference.
 
Thanks - yes we have a 68. Once we replaced the wooded plunger slides and set the knife clearance and ran the baler full out at 540 PTO, sheared flywheel pins became a thing of the past - even when making 8-9 flake bales. We now shoot for 15 and have very good bale shape and more consistent length with the smaller flakes.

We'll see how the JD 348 does..... ;-)

Bill
 
With our Heston baler I usually bale 20-25 bales to get the rust off the chamber and adjust after that. Generally you don't have to adjust much here in VA unless you bale late into the evening.
 

Mine are 2 and 11/16. An eighth of an inch more or less and they get cut and re-baled. Juuuuuust kidding, LOL. Like RayP said, there can be so much variation from one part of a field to another, that even though you rake as wide as you can in the thin places and rake narrower in the heavy places you still can't control it that closely. Other than judicious raking I may go up on the power shift a gear in thin areas.
 
When the knots fall apart/ fail to tie I need to loosen up the tension. Shows up in the heavier, not as well dried part of the field.

When the twine pulls right off the side, that part of the field is too dry and need to tighten up.

Run somewhere between these two.

It would be great to live in an area where the soils are so uniform the hay is all uniform, and in a climate where its always nice hay drying weather to make that ideal field of windrowed hay.

Here is not that spot, you just hope you can stay in that middle area most of the day....

Paul
 
Yes, my 347 has worn rails and didn't cut well last summer. Got to take the plunger out this spring and tighten everything up. I made new rails for it several years ago, didn't buy JD rails. Main reason I need to take it apart is to get the knife shearing better.

By the way, mine had the oiler pump for the twister. I fiddled with broken hoses for a few years, finally tore everything off last spring and put nine zerks on instead. I figured they'd be push in connections which I hate, but they were 1/4-20 so zerks screwed right in. Happy day when I threw that pump away.
 
Bill,
The rule I use is having the bale laying on its string and squeeze the 2 strings together. If you can have both strings in one hand squeezed then the bales are too loose. I pick my bales with a stack wagon so I like my bales solid so the stack does not lean. To fit the wagon the bales are 42-44 inches long and yes they do challenge you in the winter time to put in the back of the pickup to feed. 90-105 pounds depending on how much dew. Bud
 
I don't worry as much about wire lift as I do length and weight. Thirty four inch bales stack well in our system and the weight depends on the customer. I want my bales around 65 pounds. The hay I sell should average around fifty pounds. As long as the wire holds the bale I am happy. Your crew will learn the right feel of the bale. After stacking three hundred in the barn they are all too heavy anyway
 
We used a in-barn hay drier for years. Made the bales damp , heavy and as tight as I could make them without the bales blowing apart when they came out of the baler. Real hard on the hands and could make your leg hurt if you used your thigh to carry the bale across the mow. Those same bales at feed out time were lose and sloppy to carry, but perfect hay. Sure don't want to go back to doing that again.
 

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