A Little More Info on the JD348....

Thought I'd share a little more info on how I came to buy the JD348 baler. I've been contemplating a second baler even though I felt the New Holland 68 is now in great shape. We're making horse hay - or at least that's the goal and one day extra (or more) can turn your prized horse hay and the revenue that comes with it to goat or worse, mulch hay. We sell everything, no more livestock on the farm, so quality and appearance are paramount.

In the mix of all this was the thought that we'd move up in hp - currently, our max is 50 PTO, and we wanted more capacity in this second baler than we could handle with 50 PTO hp so that if/when we up the hp, we'd have a baler that could take advantage.

We are also, over time, going to 9ft cutting widths and with it rakes. It just cuts down overall effort on the limited time we have after work. Don't know to what extent you folks combine windrows, but I could see us combining 2 - 18 ft windrows going into the 348 with the appropriate hp in front of it.

We also wanted additional capacity and throughput if/when we move away from towed behind wagons to an accumulator/grapple system or a bale basket. Really the bottle neck is not the baler, it's how fast the bales get stacked on the wagon. With enough hp, we can go to the races with the 348 using a bale basket or accumulator grapple. We wanted that potential available when/if we go there. I think the 348 has it.

We considered a JD 328 or 338 or earlier variants that were 80 strokes per minute. We looked at New Holland 565 and BC5050 balers, but they are 79 strokes per minute. The 68 baler we have is 60-65 strokes per minute. We want 12-15 flakes per bale. To get that, we have to drive in 1st low on either the JD or MF we have. Not a problem, the 68 now cranks out a great looking brick bale, but it is somewhat slow - especially if your fields are going to yield much more hay - which we are on the path of doing. On the New Holland front, we looked at the 570/BC5060 balers - which I especially liked. Also considered a 575/BC5070, but felt the hp demands and overall weight of the baler made it less attractive. The 570/575 and BC5060/70 balers are 93 strokes per minute, similar to the JD 348. So from a bale quality standpoint, we wanted the higher strokes per minute of 93. The JD gives us that and with it 12-15 flakes per bale at a higher bale output capacity. Same flakes in as the NH68 cranks out, just more of them per hour.

In the end, we narrowed our choice to the JD348 or a New Holland 570/BC5060. The deciding factors that pushed us to the JD were the following: the JD348 has a wider pickup and more tine bars/pick up teeth, but the baler overall width is comparable to the 570/BC5060. The second thing is hp requirements. Not sure I fully understand the hp requirements and how the manufacturers glean them, but the JD348 minimum hp is 35. I've got 50 PTO max to work with. The 570/BC5060 requires 62ish hp minimum, if I remember correctly. The 575/BC5070 requires, I think, 75 minimum PTO hp - 40 more hp than required of the 348. Seems like I read that the JD balers with the flywheel on the side vs direct on the face of the PTO, like the New Holland, has some kind of gear reduction that reduces hp input - but could never verify this.

So for us, the JD 348 was IMHO the best fit for our hay making - we'll see. I especially liked the BC5060/70 balers. Such a simple, yet high capacity feeding system. They are very much heavy duty balers. What I like most about them is service access. I've never seen a new anything that was designed for service and repair as these BC balers. They have abundant flip up hood/access panels everywhere. I would absolutely recommend a BC5060 or BC5070 baler and who knows, one of these days we might own one.

Once we locked the JD348 (or a decent 347) on our radar, we waited/watched for a deal. That happened on December 31, 2015 and we brought it home.

That's what I think I know about our baler buying decision and the thought that went into it.

YMMV.

Bill

Dang! Can't edit - meant to say combine 2 - 9ft windrows......

Bill

I always roll two 14' windrows together here, I do little small squares anymore though,,, our hay runs from 1/2 ton to 3 ton per acres depending on H20
cnt

I enjoy reading your posts and especially the analytical approach that you put to your decisions.

That all said, I have to ask when is the forecasted break even point (or better yet some profitability expected) on all this equipment that you have been buying? New JD 50 hp tractor, 7' Hesston haybine, JD 348 baler, possible multiple carports yet to come, possible bigger tractor hp yet to come, another 9' cutter yet to come, accumulators yet to come, etc....

Seems like you are only doing just a few acres of hay if I remember right( maybe the acreage has gotten much bigger than I remember). I do realize you are trying to teach your kids some valuable farm life lessons about the virtues of hard work, turning a wrench, repairing things, etc. Make sure to also include some business sense in your lessons along with that. Cost analysis, return on investment, road to profitability, etc. I am sure you have it all mapped out and it is there. The fiscal lessons are just as important as the other lessons you are trying to teach your boys IMOP so do not let that slip through the cracks.

Great question. Everything we buy is cash. I don't figure the tractor in as it was coming to the farm regardless of the hay effort, but in the long
term, easily we will pencil that out too. Remember, I bought the 2nd lowest cost 2 wheel drive utility tractor JD made in the 5055d vs a honking
4x4, 100hp cab'd tractor and it gets the job done nicely.

Part of the equation and a lesson for the kids is there must be a break-even and profit. I don't really want to go into our financial details, but all
we are doing pencils out. I tell myself and my kids - if you're going to get laid off, better (worse case) to have something paid for free and clear
that you can sell, than be without a job and be faced with a payment.

We are expanding our acreage, maximizing our yield via appropriate fertilizer, lime and herbicide application and growing top quality, top dollar
horse quality hay. We are using the tax code to our advantage via tax exempt purchased for equipment, parts and consumables and
depreciation. We don't guess on anything - everything is planned with a purpose, including/especially the financials.

Moreover, as I upgrade our equipment, I feel that I'm laying a foundation for my kids to use when I can't do this hay stuff anymore - one that
won't cost them a dime.

Bill

347 is a wire tie, did you look at wire tie balers too? I don't know if I'd want wire tied bales.

Bill, did you ever get a tedder???

Jay,you're wrong. A 347 is the predecessor to the 348. They could be had in wire or string(like any of the 3** seriesbalers). String is the most commonj(at least around here). I used to have a 347 string.Atleast 2 of my 'neighbors' alse have 347 'stringers'.The JD 3** series balers are by far the most common/plentyful baler in this area af Colorado.

Your right, I think it would have been labeled 347w to indicate wire tie,,,,

Ah my post was not really intended as a question, but more of a statement. Just wanted to point out that it was just as important to cover the fiscal aspects with your boys so they can learn that aspect too as I figured you had a plan in place.

Yea - I looked at my service manual and they list the 347 in both twine and wire tie - like the 348.

If I had found a deal in a 347, I would have jumped on it - but really didn't see any of those or for that matter not hardly, if any 3x7 series balers. OTOH, there were many 348's for sale vs the 328 and 338. I really liked the 338, but wanted the 93 strokes per minute of the 348.

Not sure totally what the differences between the 347 and 348 are, but I believe one of them is the 348 has split knotter frames. I believe the New Holland 575 and know the BC5070 has them.

There are always some 24t and 14t balers around for sale, but the one baler that is plentiful are the JD 336 balers. JD must have made a boat load of them.

Bill

Yea we found a well used New Holland 2 basket 156 tedder last year. Works OK, but we need to do a little work on it. It is a Kuhn painted New Holland.

did you say two 18 foot windrows??? maybe is third cutting not first if you have good hay.

I have never baled behind a 348, but i have handled a lot of bales behind a 336 and a 14 t. They make great bales when you feed them right. I really like our Hesston 4550 inline baler as I can put two 9 ft swaths together on first cut and bale them with a 45hp tractor if need be. The NH baler you have will stay in the shed once you use the 348 because it is much faster.

Better find a second one,,,,,,

I had a line on a MF/Hesston 1835 that set for at least a year on a dealers back lot. Couldn't see anything wrong with it and decided to make a play on it. Sales guy gave me a price on a Friday, said he might could do better, would call back on Monday. Never heard anything, went out to the dealer the following Saturday and it was sold. I really like the inline balers, drop dead simple IMHO. Few and far between around here. I'd say NH is #1, followed by JD and then MF in my neck of the woods.

I think the 1835 MF is similar/same as the Hesston 4550.

Thanks,
Bill

Yep......

Just a thought about HP requirements on the NH balers:
The 62HP for the 570/5060, or 75 HP for the 575/5070 is most likely the HP needed to run them to capacity. The minimum HP needed prolly won't be any different than the JD 348.
JMHO, Dave
PS: I LOVE my 570 with belt thrower, and don't notice much difference, in power required, from the NH 315 that came before it. I ran the 315, many times, quite successfully with my 3910 with 42 PTO HP. I would not hesitate to use the 3910 on the 570, but have never wired in the electric thrower distance control for the 3910.
Disclaimer: I do have a small aversion to green paint! :roll:

How does the bale size compare with the JD 348 vs say a 336 or 337 or 338? I think the 336 makes a 14 X 18.

Same bale size, 14"x18"

will you be providing some pictures?

Yea at some point. We were kind of hurried on New Years Eve getting it towed home and in the shed as it got dark, so no pics. We've got it stored in a dome shed of mine - open on the ends. My boys did a great job of tarping it to keep blowing rain (or snow if we ever get any) off it and I don't want to undo that. I'll drag it out this spring and post some pics and some videos of us using it too.

Bill

50 hp max?? What kind of tractor?

John Deere 5055d

Link below of it making a bit of hay with my trusty New Holland 68 with wagon in tow.
JD 5055d with NH68 and Wagon

Oh.. We traded a 5403 JD in a year ago trying to do hay. We bought it new and before it had 1000 hrs on it the clutch adjustment was max.. the 348 is going to make it whine at capacity. Keep us posted maybe I bought a lemon for a tractor?

Don't know what you were baling with to bring the JD to it's knees, but....

I doubt we'll ever run the 348 to capacity with my tractor, but what we can do is lower the hp input by not choking the baler. We want 15ish strokes per bale and that's a 32ish inch bale. The feed back I get from the horse folks buying my hay is - they prefer a bale with lots of small flakes. It makes the bale easier to break apart and feed small portions. Higher strokes also gives us a more consistent length bale too.

I was able to do all this with the 68, but feel that with our renewed fields, as we are trying to sell horse hay, a day can make or break the quality, so a second baler was in order.

I have to say that our 68, especially for our 2nd cutting, was really dialed in. That thing was mashing out beautiful bricks! I've said before, the nicest bales of hay I've ever seen was working a wagon behind a JD 24t many years ago. I've only seen inline Hesston type balers' bales in videos and pics - they look GREAT! But I would say our 68 spit out bricks that if not equal in bale shape, were close. Not bad for a 57-58 year old baler. And we're keeping it too. I am anxious to see how comparable/consistent the 348 will be in bale shape quality. Don't think I'll be disappointed - knock on wood.....

Bill

They take a little bit dial in. 3rd and 4th cutting I use a 24T. Keep us posted.

I use a NH 479, JD 347 wire, and NH 1032 bale wagon. Puts a lot of hay in the barn fast and I farm only with H and M Farmalls. 48 HP M is plenty of power for the 347, a little light on hills on the bale wagon but still acceptable. The NH 1032 handles 69 bales per load, and within a half mile of the barn on a smooth field I am pushing three loads per hour.

In case you do't know about shawn larrabee's youtube channel it may be of use to you as he devotes several videos to the maintenance and repair of John deere balers. The model you have is listed.

Looks like you are doing all grass hay? About how many bales do you do a year? Those look like very small windrows, and your groundspeed is quits slow, under 5mph? You could certainly have raked three of those windrows into one and any baler would handle it.
You might pencil out having some alfalfa/OG mix acreage. The horse nuts around here get into bidding wars for mine,

"Looks like you are doing all grass hay? About how many bales do you do a year? Those look like very small windrows, and your groundspeed is quits slow, under 5mph? You could certainly have raked three of those windrows into one and any baler would handle it.
You might pencil out having some alfalfa/OG mix acreage. The horse nuts around here get into bidding wars for mine, "

That hay was all grass, goodly part of it orchard grass, but with a healthy dose of purple top in it. We had sprayed for weeds, so it actually turned out to be decent hay - my buyers really liked it. Prior to wacking the weeds, we did about 1250ish bales in 2014 and last summer we did about 750ish. That hay was the last we took off our fields, before hitting them with roundup and starting over with timothy. We are also opening up a few more fields for this spring and will plant teff grass to carry us over the summer until we can plant something more permanent - yet generate some income. We are expecting 2,000 bales this summer, maybe 2,500 and if we are lucky, maybe 3,000 - but that is probably a stretch. Keep in mind our bales are 30-32inch-ish 40-45 lb bales. As our fields mature, I'd like to see 3,000 per year and as we add more acreage, maybe 4,000; all of which will be sold into the horse market. We'll see.

After the refurb on the New Holland 68, we found our bale shape quality AND consistent length was much better if we ran the baler at 540 PTO RPMs and slowed the ground speed to get around 15ish flakes per bale. Prior to that we would spit out bales with 8 or 9 flakes per bale. Everything is just better with more flakes and full 540 PTO speed. We are selling into the horse market and visual is IMHO very important. I am hopeful our "looks" will be even better with the addition of the mighty JD348.

Keep in mind that my kids are still in a learning curve - but MUCH better and the best is yet to come. So when one of my boys was raking this field, not sure he understood the idea of straight windrows, gradual turns and the 3pt rake needs to be fully on the ground - LOL! All good lesson learned, but we went back and re-raked some of the remnants. That's why you see such a thin windrow in the video. I can't explain the speed - interestingly enough, we found the 68 once tuned and running at 540 PTO rpms really didn't care if the pickup was full or thin, it spit out bricks regardless.

One note about the video, I don't care to show our faces, especially my kids (though maybe that may change as we continue to "film? ). My daughter was taking the video with instructions on not showing faces, which is why the shot is down low. At the end of it, somehow she managed to get the rollbar between my face and the camcorder too! Don't know if she was lucky, or just brilliant! I kind of think she's brilliant - LOL!

Also, one of my pet peeves on these youtube haying videos is people talking, carts running or dubbed music such that you can't hear the great sounds of the baler and tractor at work. I like the sound as much as I do the videos. You can hear the sound of the JD responding on every plunger stroke - which is music to my ears. In addition (not that our video is perfect) another pet peeve is some of these haying youtube videos are recording, it seems, everything EXCEPT the haying!!!!!! My daughter was very good at getting shots of the hay going into the throat of the baler and out the back. We will have more pics and videos this summer, including both the JD tractor hooked to the 348, with wagon and stacker in tow and my trusty MF50 diesel with the 68, wagon and stacker in tow - side by side in the field. Sounds like fun to me....

That's what I think I know.

Bill