IH 209 Plow Questions

I've got a IH 209 and the wear iron is less than perfect. Truth is I'm not even sure what style of bottoms (Plow Chief or Super Chief) are on it.

Is it just a myth that the PC and SC's bolt up to the same frog? For instance, I was told that I could switch my C-20 from PC to SC's without changing out the frogs. Would this be true for 209's also?

Or is it maybe the case that different style frogs were factory installed on the 209 where some do, and some don't accept each bottom style?

The snow's too deep right now for a thorough inspection to try to find PN's.

Dont know what a 209 is. But yes,PC and SC use the same frog.

DRed. The 209 is the first generation IH 2-bottom FH plow.

You're saying that same thing I've always heard, that the PC and SC's would bolt up to the same frog. Another highly esteemed forum member has told me that he's seen plow manuals that show multiple frogs, some accepting, an other's not, both bottoms.

Edit: Meant to say the 209 is first generation LARGE PRONG FH plows.

I don't see how Plow Chief parts will work on a Super Chief frog, nor do I see how Super Chief parts will work on a Plow Chief frog. You could probably do a cob-job of some sort and get some parts to work, but as equipped from the factory, I am almost certain that absolutely none of the major wear parts will interchange. Bolt patterns and bolt sizes are totally different on the shares. Spearpoint area of the PC frog would need modification to allow flush-mounting of a 1-piece share. Can't mount the spearpoint on the SC frog as it is, either. PC moldboards and shins (RSPC) were thinner than SC moldboards and shins. (I think there was one thinner SC moldboard that was designed for lower horsepower plowing.) PC shin was considerably wider than SC shins. Landside bolt patterns are not the same.

IF bolt patterns of the moldboards and shins were the same (and I don't think they are), you would have to have the curvature and positioning of those parts be the same as well.

If you don't have them now, but you want Super Chief bottoms, get Super Chief frogs and the proper wear parts designed for them.

AG

The 209 and 309 plows were built to be used with 424, 444 size tractors. They were 3 point not fast hitch. 211, 311 were fast hitch plows. Plow chief and Super chief frogs are not the same, not even close. Plow chief and Super chief frogs will bolt on to 209 beams, but I don't know why any one would want Plow chief bottoms. Parts,if you can find them, are expensive and they never did a good job plowing.

Thanks for the replies....learning.

Follow up question: Could the 209 be equipped with either or PC's, SC's?

(quoted from post at 00:37:40 02/23/15) The 209 and 309 plows were built to be used with 424, 444 size tractors. They were 3 point not fast hitch. 211, 311 were fast hitch plows. Plow chief and Super chief frogs are not the same, not even close. Plow chief and Super chief frogs will bolt on to 209 beams, but I don't know why any one would want Plow chief bottoms. Parts,if you can find them, are expensive and they never did a good job plowing.

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Both 2pt. and 3pt. versions of the 209 and 309 plows were available. I had a 2-point 309 with Plow Chief slat bottoms for a few years. Later the models were updated and called 209A and 309A plows. Op. manual I have shows these in only a 3-pt. hitch version, but I've been told by someone here that fast hitch versions were made as well.

Plow Chief bottoms do a fine job of plowing in many soil types. Biggest shortcoming of these bottoms wasn't the design, but was that many people didn't try all that hard to get/keep the bolts on the wear parts tight, and many more left worn out points and shares on the plow far too long.

AG

(quoted from post at 00:43:45 02/23/15) Thanks for the replies....learning.

Follow up question: Could the 209 be equipped with either or PC's, SC's?

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Probably could be equipped with either/or, or perhaps even earlier style bottoms. Operator's manuals should say what bottoms were available, but available bottoms changed on some models as time passed.

Pictures for parts reference follow:

Plow Chief share (14" regular) and spearpoint (cast):




Super Chief shares (14" undercut), 3-bolt on top, 4-bolt on bottom:



Plow Chief filler plate (red) and front steel landside on top, Early style Super Chief front steel landside on bottom:



Plow Chief shin (for bottoms that use a shin) on left, Super Chief shin on right.




None of the above PC/SC parts will interchange without modification of the parts or the frogs.

AG

I'm sorry I misled you.I was not thinking straight. No, the PC and SC bottoms do NOT share the same frog. They will each bolt to the same 3 holed beam.That part I have done.Sorry for the confusion.........Boy,do I feel like an idiot!

You need to change out the entire bottom, frog and all.

From the IH McCormick archives at the Wisconsin Historical Society where the original IHC documents are Archived:
The 209/309 model plows were released for production on June 13, 1958 for use on the Farmall and International 240 and 340 tractors and other tractors equipped with a Category 1 three-point hitch by Product Identification Committee Decision No. 286. I have an original Operator's Manual and Setting-Up Instructions for the 209/309 plows dated March 1959 being No. 1 011 794 R3. There are numerous illustrations and directions on how to configure them for either the fast hitch system or a 3-point system, so yes they were produced for both hitches.
The 209A/309A model plows were the result of a request to revise the model designation of the 209/309 plows for use on the 404 and 504 tractors and notes the paint colors for the three-point completing package to accommodate those tractor models. With the change of the three point provisions installed on a 209/309 plow new decals were released with the 209A/309A Model Designation. I don't have an Operators Manual for the 209A or 309A models so don't have any knowledge what might be contained in them. The implementation of the 209A/309A was authorized by the Product Identification Committee Decision No. 610 dated April 16, 1962.
All of these plows were produced by Canton Works in Illinois.

I spent all weekend going through numerous IH Plow and Bottom Part Catalogs and can assure you there is nothing similar or common between the Plow Chief and Super Chief bottoms. For instance, the trash plates and the tie plate between the moldboards and shares are even different. One feature on the Super Chief bottom is the ability to tilt it downward for better ground penetration through the use of an eccentric bolt in the top hole of the frog which can't be done with the Plow Chief bottom. The change all starts at the frog which makes everything in the bottom different. The plow frame and shanks are the same for both models of bottoms but it ends there. In looking at the illustrations of the Plow Chief and Super Chief bottoms the former has many more detail components while the later looks like a very simplified design containing just the basic components, frog, shin, moldboard, share and attaching hardware.
Through this weekend of reviewing these catalogs I have a great appreciation of the high level of design work and the complexity of plow components for specific soil types and conditions. And to think the native Americans used a buffalo shoulder blade as a plow for generations. There must be a MIT for plow designers somewhere, Hal.