Baler vs Wagon Weight

Bill VA

Well-known Member
As I mentioned in my earlier post, I have some reservation about putting a 20 ft wagon loaded to the max behind my old NH68 baler. Not sure if the NH engineers visioned such a load behind that baler.

Looking at today's late model balers, I should think pulling a maxed-out 20 ft hay wagon with the baler would be no sweat - even going up a hill.

Question is - anyone ripped the tongue or rear baler hitch out of their old New Holland or Deere baler when pulling a 20 ft wagon maxed out?

My old JD 14T had a huge square tube for an axle spanning the baler for the axle shafts/wheels to bolt onto. As I recall, the wagon hitch came directly off this axle tube and I believe was steadied by a small brace to the bale chamber. Though the 14t was a low/slow capacity baler, it was pretty stout in construction and while I never pulled a wagon with it, reflecting back, I don't think a 20 ft hay wagon would have been a problem.

Fast forward to today, my NH68's rear hitch is attached to the bale chamber. My concern is that to much of a load on the trailer and I've got a warped bale chamber. In addition, the tongue on the front of the baler isn't exactly (IMHO) a super stout structural member. I also have some concern about ripping that thing out too.

So again my question is - anyone damaged their bale chamber or ripped out a front or rear hitch pulling a 20 ft wagon load of hay maxed out?

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I'm most likely to use 16 ft wagons with this baler, but am interested in it's practical limits too.

Thanks!
Bill
 
Farmer I use to help, also bought hay from, broke the rear tongue on a very nice NH 315, that had not seen heavy use, well kept etc. It was just across the old fence line from our place, very inconvenient given it had a thrower on it. What was odd about it breaking was that it was rusted out, yet the baler had always been under cover, prior to and while he owned it. It was the first season out with it, forget what he was using just prior. I've run that one before, and have stacked wagons full behind it with no issue at all. We have hills here but had saved the steeper ones for round bales, given the chance of rolling the wagons over.

He had the local welding shop repair it and I never saw any issue with a heavy wagon behind it. Most times this baler was pulled by a JD 4440, I ran it with a JD 3150, so the front end was certainly heavy enough to control the back LOL !

There are some places I'd not want to lose a wagon from the tongue breaking. I think what happened was that he figured it was good, given the rest of the baler was so nice, probably never took a close look at it.

So I would suggest that one does need to closely inspect the rear tongue and make necessary repairs. I saw the old piece and it was rusty, thinned from same, looked like old crappy rusted out thin wall pipe. We ran a 532 Ford baler for many years with a rear hitch, on hills, it was never an issue.
 
I have an old Ford baler, (Red paint mid 1950 model) The hitch was attached to the bottom of the bale chamber. I would pull a wagon with 110 approximately 40lb bales with no problem. Used mostly on gently rolling ground.
 
Bill, unless you are some BTO hay broker with a dozen funkies working for you, stick with those 16 foot hay racks.

Those beastly big hay racks are not nearly as efficient, fun, or useable as you might think. You need a modern strong running gear, new tires, heavy beams, miserable to hitch up, hard to manuver, don't fit in barns, drop through floors. Too heavy to push around by hand, oversize on the road. Really miserable to load you need twice the labor force, a person can't keep up walking the extra 8 foot round trip to keep up with the baler.

Its fun to dream big, but keep it a dream. The reality is no dream......

Paul
 
When I got the bale basket I got the special hitch with it that puts the hitch pin centered behind the chamber on a NH.

Was running a few loads on the highway from a close field, mile on the highway. Only have the one basket so didnt pay to unhook, just ran the whole rig back and forth.

Next day I was baling right next to the barn. 1/4 load and looked back and the basket was a couple 100 feet behind me, some welds let loose on that manufatured hitch.

Person stops and thinks, what could have been........

Paul
 
That certainly does not sound like fun, having something like that drop off. Maybe these were not so well built in places, need reinforcement. I could not believe that piece broke on his, could have been a dirt floor shed that it was in previously, with a bit of moisture, it just did not add up, as he got a really nice NH 315. I've greased it numerous times and it sure looked as if it had not seen heavy use.
 
Back when we had cattle and baled hay we had at end 3 16' and 1 18' foot bed, 2 of them were 7' wide while 2 were 6 1/2' wide and could load just as much on those 6 1/2' beds as could have beem loaded on an 8' wide bed but they were much easier to handle. If I was going to be baling now I would not even go with 16' beds but 14' for more conveinous and easier handling. That 18' bed was on a wagon that I wanted the gear from or would not have had it. It was on a wood wheel gear and sat4 1/2' off ground, only time that 18' bed was nice was using it to park against side of building to work on building as you had a bigger work platform, height was good for that as well. When decided to use to bale on then put on a rubber tired gear but it was always the last of the 4 to be used and a lot of times it was never completely filled.
 
I make my kicker racks 8'x18'. They'll hold 150 bales or so. I pull them behind a NH 316, which is a heavier baler than yours, but the hitch does still attach to the bale chamber. I run some steep ground, and haven't had any troubles with it. You have to think ahead when you're mowing though - you want to start your loads on the steep ground, and leave yourself some flatter ground to finish the load out.
Also keep in mind that a loaded wagon will want to push the baler around heading down hills
Pete
 
This fall I was pulling gravity wagons to the coop a mile away from my field road with the pickup, had the 230bu wagon on. Turn left out the driveway,, up a bit of a hill, stop for the state highway crossing, cross highway turn right into the coop scale. Pretty simple drive.

When I turned into the coop drive, something was wrong. I saw the whole wagon in my right mirror. Oh boy! Kept my feet off the pedals and turned with it, the hitch pole was sideways and rubbing on the wagon front wheel.

We coasted to a stop a few feet from the well house there by the coop. Went back and looked, kicked the hitch pole and it fell off. The bolt through the hitch pole broke off on the wagon side, was just holding by one ear on the hitch pole.

Thinking back the wagon was not following quite right the whole trip, musta been broke all along the way.

What coulda been.

I ran home with the wagon pole, put it in the press to push the ear back straight, grabbed a bolt and washers and nut from the bolt bin, drove back up and had it on the scale in 1/2 hour, drove slow for the few 100 feet and home empty.

Still need to fix that right, new sleeve and hardened bolt needed. Old bolt looked good, they had welded the nut on at the manufaturer that end was snapped off, but was fresh break, not worn badly or rusty crack. Wasn't that I missed something or my fault.....

Paul
 
Used a NH68 baler many years with a 20 foot wagon and never had a problem.Wagon would hold about 150 bales.Was used on hills also.
 
I have a NH 68 that is going to be used next year, and if I can find someone to drive the tractor, I will be stacking on the wagon.

Personally, I wouldn't want to run 20 feet back and forth with each bale!! I have my running gear at 8 feet center to center, and I am a going to stretch it out to 10 feet and put a 12 foot deck on it... Will be kind of small, but my fields are only 5 acres (give or take) and the hay doesn't have far to go.... I have little tractors, and a heavy baler, and lots of time!!! :)

Don't think that I would go over 16 foot myself, just sounds tooooo big! Bryce
 
Bryce, the gear on 8' length would be correct for a 12' bed, now for a 14' bed then 10' on the gear would be correct and for 16' a 12' spacing on gear would be correct. You want about 18" in front of axle on front so with things correct on front you would have 6" of tire sticking out in back of the bed on the rear end, you go to a 14' on gear length of 10' you could have the correct 18" on front for baler chute for loading and that would give you 30' on back end to cover your tires and allow proper amoint of overhang, possibly still a bit short on the overhang. Setting it at 9 1/2' would be better.
 
I remember when I was about eight y/o my dad hired a 17 y/o to help on the farm during the summer. My sister was driving the tractor on the baler with the hired man and they didn't come home even though it was after dark. My dad and I when to check on them and he had hooked the full load behind the wagon he was loading the bales out of the baler. This was southern Wisconsin which has fairly steep hills. The baler was an old NH 77 with a Wisconsin engine. This was the last time he hooked two wagons behind the baler. Very dangerous situation. Somebody was looking out for them!!!! Richard
 
I guess I'm a bto in my little operation, I can't stand little racks. They don't hold much, and the little tires sink into wet ground.

A pair of 24 ft'ers double hitched you can haul 500-550 bales per trip home so 6 wagons you can get an afternoons baling / 1500 bales on wheels in 3 trips.

The little racks you'd need 14 wagons and 7 trips plus the time of changing wagons in the field all the time.
 
I believe the only NH baler we ever owned that didn't get the wagon hitch ripped off the bale chamber was the S-77. We did break the pipe a couple of times, though. Pop rebuilt the 269 at least once and I did twice. The 273 was rebuilt at least once before we bought it. The JD 336 had a stronger hitch setup. We never had any trouble with that one. Our biggest wagons were 18 footers. These old Adirondack foothills were tough on baler hitches of that era.
 
Bryce, you just need to do some math that I know you can do. Just find a board or pole or piece of pipe that is 12' long and lay it onto your gear and have it so it lays 3-5" in front of the front tires. A standrd measurement for the 6:00x16 or 6:70x15" is considered 28" so devide that in half that would be 14" + the 3 to 5" in front of tires would be 17" to 19" in front of center of front axle. You need about that length to get good turning, of course a larger tire would take more distance. Now that you have that pole in place see where it layes on center of rear axle, if you extend the length of the wagon to 10' on the axles you will only be covering the rear tires by just a few inches, not completely covering them. and to properly ballance the wagon you need 2 feet behind the rear tires. And remember to allow the bale chute to overlap the front of the bed 6" or possibly more if you have deep waterways-washouts in field to go across so the chute does not drop in front of the bed when you go through them and when the baler comes up the chute is still on top of the floor so it does not tear up your wagon bed or the baler. Just do the math and see how close I am comming to these figures. It has been 35 years since I baled but am now 71 years old but you do not forget things like tearing up the bed (have done that or even if did not destroy the bed have to wiggle things around so you could pull the hitch pin and unhook and get back on level ground and hook things back together) or having too much overhang on the back and dumping the bed backward off the gear when starting a load. That happens more if the bed is not fastened to the gear on the front end. If it happens it will toss the loader off the wagon. And the bed will flex as much if the back end is not fastened down as it will if fastened down with a load on. A 12 ft bed should hold about 75 bales. 14' a hundred bales. Trying to make a bed for 3 bales wide, 9' like one other is planning with a normall width wheel track-tread of 60" you have a much more chance of sideways tipping a load on a hill, you do not want that could also put you under the load that you could not dig yourself out from under. Changing a flat tire could also make it flip over and pinning you under the load and killing you. A wide track of 72" would be less likely to do that. But I don't think you have a wide track gear. A lot of older gears instead of being 60" were only 56" with a 38" long bolster where a 60" gear could have a 42" bolster. Just be safe.
 
I would have no real worries about pulling a big wagon behind a baler OTHER than the ability of the baler to not slide out of the sandwich on the down grade. A light baler between a heavy wagon and heavy tractor is a recipe for a baler that will look like an accordion if you make one wrong move going down a steep hill. The wagon will jackknife the baler. I would have little worry about pulling it up grade as the bale chamber would be quite strong while in tension.

Rod
 
I have a 273 New Holland baler and I have my racks 9 wide by 18 long. I can pile about 180 on those racks and pull them up out of a road ditch. I agree with some of the guys here though. A 16 foot rack is plenty. The only reason I built my racks 9x18 was for hauling round bales with the same racks.
 
You have to watch out on steep ground. I had a neighbor who was not watching his turns and turned downhill and then sharply to his right with a nearly full wagon hitched to his baler. The wagon to baler hitch did not give out, but the down hill tire rolled off the rim and the baler flipped completely over on its back. Surprisingly enough, little damage was done, the hitch to the tractor had to be reworked and the bolt sheared in the baler to wagon hitch and the hitch rotated in the tube. The pto was bent. We had some time getting the wagon away from the baler. Once we did that we were able to get a wrecker in and put the baler back on its wheels. The tire was not hurt, it took air once we got it back on the rim. After the tractor hitch and pto were repaired, he went back to using the baler. Quite a day. He was did not have a thrower, his son was stacking the load.
Bottom line, watch what you are doing. I have never bent a hitch on our farm, but we watch our turns and do not fill up the wagons on a steep hill.
 
I agree Paul, 16 feet is about the most you want if you are catching hay behind the baler, especially if there is only one person on the wagon.
 
Thanks again everyone - great info!

Probably go with a 16 ft wagon and as I mentioned in another reply. I just don't see this NH68 with it's age (though the thing is pretty rust free) pulling a crazy long wagon - but stranger things have happened.

Though we have hills, we are not putting equipment on them, be it a tractor, a tractor towing a wagon and certainly not a tractor towing a baler and wagon full of hay. Safety is first.

However, if my ship ever comes-in and I've got that massive 4x4 Cab'd JD tractor (new) with a 348 baler (new) and 24 ft kicker wagons with brakes (new) and a gigantic barn (new) and plenty of help on the payroll - I might consider making hay on some hillsides.

In the mean time this LTO (little time operator) will make due with the NH68 and a 16 ft wagon.

Thanks again!
Bill
 
(quoted from post at 23:45:33 02/03/15)
....In the mean time this LTO (little time operator) will make due with the NH68 and a 16 ft wagon....

Oh you are quite far from little time operator. Not very many LTO's have a brand new tractor to use.

Heck most true LTO's like me have zero interest in even owning a wagon. A wagon is 1 trick pony and otherwise a hassle to store. On the other hand a 16' trailer for pulling behind the pick up truck is a multi-use tool that is useful for other things besides haying.
 
I don't know.....

That new tractor was many years in the making and as my
Dad would say, "I bought with my wallet." I got the second
lowest priced JD utility tractor they offer and the only option
was a step up in rear tire size and fluid - LOL! What is
sickening is though the tractor (JD 5055d 4x2 tractor for those
who aren't familiar with what I bought) is new, a new JD, NH or
MF square baler costs more than the tractor - yikes!

But - for whatever reason, I still like my MF50 diesel - which it
were new.

Taking my own thread even further off topic, I'm still amazed at
some of the folks up and down the highway from where our
property is and their equipment. Cab tractors, 4x4, shinny
newer round balers - lots of $$$$$'s and I don't think many of
them are putting up more than 20 acres of hay. They do have
additional acres and some cattle, but again, not large herds
and definitely not BTO's. No harm, no foul - if you can afford
it, why not.

Thanks!
Bill
 

Bill, I've been pulling 16 foot racks behind my 68 for a lot of years up and down our hills and slopes. Never had a problem. In fact I tried pulling the tongue out once and I broke the draw pin and couldn't get it out it was so rusted together. I had a wheel break off on a loaded wagon once and I dragged the wagon a few feet, plowing ground before I got it stopped. I don't think you're going to break the hitch off easily.
 
Back in the early 70's we were baling with a JD 24T
baler and had 7 different wagons we used.They ranged from 16ft to 24ft long baling with a D19 Allis.Used to stack around 275 bales on the 24ft wagons never had a problem with the baler hitch and the land definitely isn't flat around here.
 
The question is really the baler age. Metal Fatigue would be my concern. Just check for cracked welds, & bent metal. If fine; then You should be all right.
 
Ha! That is like the guys I was working for.. So poor that they couldn't pay their electricity bill, but they had the newest nicest phones, and fancy cars (not true farmers in my opinion)

They went out and started looking for a step up in round balers. They had an OLD Sperry/NH and it was hammered, wouldn't make a round bale to save it's life! So being that they have smaller, beat to $hit tractors, the obvious option was to go buy a BRAND NEW JD 594 Net Wrap Round Baler?!?!!?

Their Ford 5000 barely gets it moving, and almost isn't able to get it stopped!! :

Seems like some common sense should have been used, but then it isn't my money! Bryce
 
I would question the hitch pin long before questioning the baler hitch. I never had a problem with a 7/16" bolt pin when doing custom baling. Looked at it with a wondering eye as why the customer had such a small pin but they would handle a 100 bales on a wagon.
 
(quoted from post at 21:07:01 02/04/15) Ha! That is like the guys I was working for.. So poor that they couldn't pay their electricity bill, but they had the newest nicest phones, and fancy cars (not true farmers in my opinion)

They went out and started looking for a step up in round balers. They had an OLD Sperry/NH and it was hammered, wouldn't make a round bale to save it's life! So being that they have smaller, beat to $hit tractors, the obvious option was to go buy a BRAND NEW JD 594 Net Wrap Round Baler?!?!!?

Their Ford 5000 barely gets it moving, and almost isn't able to get it stopped!! :

Seems like some common sense should have been used, but then it isn't my money! Bryce

Nice language Bryce. I guess you're a real man now.....
 
Hey, you know other people do just that as well?? I don't see you picking on them??

Come spend a day in my house, if that was the worst word you hear I would be tickled pink!

Hate to break it to you, but we are all raised differently, and with different values.

Put your big boy undies on and join the real world.

Bryce
 
(quoted from post at 01:06:00 02/06/15) Hey, you know other people do just that as well?? I don't see you picking on them??

Come spend a day in my house, if that was the worst word you hear I would be tickled pink!

Hate to break it to you, but we are all raised differently, and with different values.

Put your big boy undies on and join the real world.

Bryce

Just because your family talks like trash doesn't make it right. I'm a former Marine and career cop, trust me as far as my undies go. Other people I just notify the moderator. You, I've mentioned this to you before and you said it was wrong of you. I thought maybe you'd grown up enough to stick with it. But I see that you haven't. I guess that's what you get when you deal with someone who claims to have been a professional logger since he was 11 years old.

Lets see how long it takes your little fan club to rally and support your foul language.
 
Well okay.

Your call I guess... Lots of other people do it, but I guess just because lots of others do it, doesn't make it right for me to do it.

However, calling ALL OF US on it is one thing, but just snapping at me for it is a little unfair.

I am sure this has to do with my age, and you clearly don't believe me about logging. Like I said before, I wasn't a "professional" it was just what I did, like your "profession" might be cleaning chimneys or something (don't take that the wrong way) so you would be a "Professional Chimney Sweep". Just because that is you title, doesn't make you any better at it than me, experience is what does that.

I don't think of myself as a professional in anything, but I am pretty good at a lot of things! Sawing/logging is one of my strong spots. I have been operating equipment for a lot of years, not all day every day, just a little here and there, but experience is experience right?

Bryce
 
Hey Paul what brand Hay basket do you have. I had a pro quality first and now I have gotten an easy trail. Not happy with the way the Pro quality is and going to try and fabricate a new ramp to make it more like the ez trail system.
 

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