Seed bed prep question

cbradio

Member
Hi Everyone,

I have an 8n that I just rebuilt. I have a 3 bottom plow that I took 1 plow off of to make it a 2 plow. It is probably still too big for the N but i make it work...

Anyway, I also have a 6 foot 3pt disk.

I can't seem to get the soil to a state where an earthway seeder can actually seed correctly. I ended up this spring with clods too big and the earthway seeder just bounded around and didnt want to drop seeds under the surface.

I attribute this largely to user error, but I didn't know if it was worth the effort to find a walk behind tiller, or a 3pt tiller to finely chop up the soil

I live in central ohio. Soil is largely clay?

Any pointers would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Cam
 
The clods are there because it was too wet to
plow.And you waited too long to work it down. Find a
spike tooth harrow.Throw a railroad tie on it.
 
Soil around here can do that, and I have experienced similar with the earthway planter.

Ideally, you don't want to plow when there is too much moisture, some use the rule of hand and squeeze a handful to see if it forms in your hand or crumbles off, and we know soil conditions vary widely.

In regards to the plow, make sure its been modified so it works properly, and can be adjusted correctly to the tractor. Make sure the shares are not worn out and there is no related problems due to same. It is advisable to make sure the plow performs correctly, to get a good seed bed established. So, if its not turning the soil over, flipping the sod over completely or any other similar problems you may want to deal with that. I've disc'd my own poorly plowed ground as well as when I was able to get my single bottom to really work well, there is a significant difference in the results. No excess root clods or vegetation, trash on top, and it was much easier to work down with the disc. Don't get me wrong, you can do a lot with a disc, so much nicer when its plowed under properly from what I experienced.

You'll get those clods with moisture laden soil like that, you may want to fall plow, then disc or till in the spring.

Not sure what disc you have, but when I need to break up the soil I set the gangs in an X, check to see its not leaving a ridge in the middle, and the overall job its doing, I've even used the loader bucket to screed and level as I disc, on rough ground to help level it, worked well for me, no different than running a dozer and grading.


The results are in the photos,no expert and work with old junk LOL (well old "good" junk) you could literally run that earthway planter through this patch, it was dry when I plowed, heavy soil, lot of clay in this section. The dis'c was missing one disc blade, set it accordingly to cut, then almost made the gangs parallel to level, came out well.

I tried my new to me #25 Massey-Ferguson disc harrow, on my corn patch this year, after plowing twice, it had dried up got hard, so I had to break it up again, and I did plant corn with the earthway planter, without using my tiller, soil worked up fine and that disc really does a nice job, clay, gravel loam topsoil mix with lots of round stones.

Also be aware of compaction and or hard pan, not sure how that applies, but the less passes made, may help. These tillage practices can make hard pan, which can be broken up when real dry using a subsoiler. Not sure I've experienced it here, but there can be a concern about it and ones tillage practices.
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No, discing does not allow the soil to dry out
properly. A moldboard plow turns the soil over
and breaks it up somewhat, flipping the roots of
foliage up and the leaves down. It has a
tendency to loosen the soil up, but it's also
clumpy. If it's too wet when you plow, it has a
tendency to bind together somewhat like cement,
and dries as a large lump, which will bake in the
sun into a brick like wad. Only time and moisture
will eventually allow it to come apart. Discing
or harrowing will also break it up, but just into
smaller lumps and have a tendency to compact a deeper layer that you can't plow without using deep tillage.

You can plow it this fall while somewhat wet, and
the frost and thaw cycles during the winter will
help to break it up. Come spring, you can also
plow it, but the ground must be somewhat dried out
before putting steel to it. Plowed in the fall or
spring, don't get too antsy about working it up.
After it dries, and looks dry on top, wait a day
or two before trying to break it up. It will then
work up nicely and be a pleasure to work in. One
thing I use here in N. Maryland id to look at the
puddles in my lane. If they are still full of
water or even still muddy, it's too wet to work
ground. Take your time and don't get in such a
rush....
 
I also have an Earthway seeder and have similar
issues if the ground is at all lumpy. Another
problem it has is that after spike-tooth
harrowing, even with a reasonably light
subcompact tractor, it has problems getting the
seed down into moisture. The top inch is loose
but then it is firm (not compacted tight, just
firm) below that. Trying to seed corn or beans
below the loose, dry, harrowed ground into the
moisture just isn't possible since the planter
doesn't have the weight and robustness to keep
the opener down in the firmer soil. If it did
it would be very hard to push in our clay. It
works well with smaller seeds that get planted
more shallow but even if the soil is moist down
below I then still need to irrigate to get them
sprouted. I solved this problem by setting up
a single row Deere 71 unit planter that works
much better for getting the seeds down into
moisture.

You didn't say if you plowed in the fall but if
you have clay soil this works much better. The
freezing and thawing over winter breaks down
even the toughest clods. I plow and usually
disk once in the fall then work the soil as
little and as shallow as possible in the spring
so as to not turn up sticky soil. Working clay
soil too wet in the spring makes rock-hard
clods that will haunt you all season.
 
I did not get a chance last fall to plow, as the tractor was still in pieces until January.

I have, however, plowed in September. I have been adding chicken manure and leaves to the garden to be mixed in when I plow it again before the freeze.

I do, after seeing these pictures, think that I plowed when it was too wet. It formed big clods and never was able to break down to small enough particles.

Thank you, to all of you that have posted help. It means a lot to me!
 
DeltaRed has it right. You might even make a wooden drag to drag over the plowed ground before discing. You can add rocks or stones for weight as needed. a drag will smooth er out.
 
I agree with those who said it was too wet to plow. Consider also that this past Spring was a very bad year for planting. I used a lot bigger and heavier equipment than you and some places never dried out enough that I could get a good smooth planting bed. Fortunately, it was corn and there was little doubt that the planter would have a problem with the clods. I would turn it now and finish in the Spring. Should dry out nice with more surface area exposed. If you are doing a smallish area, nothing beats a rototiller.
 
First thing we do preparing a seed bed is to <a href="http://youtu.be/kzS7hrf2uMo?list=UU4gFuJx6qHbiK0FRREh2lDw">spray the area with RoundUP</a> and kill all the grass/weeds.

Next step is to <a href="http://youtu.be/GPZqbgI8C2M?list=UU4gFuJx6qHbiK0FRREh2lDw">use a spring-tooth harrow</a> to break up the soil.

Next step is to <a href="http://youtu.be/y5wdvoBscNg?list=UU4gFuJx6qHbiK0FRREh2lDw">use a blade</a> to break up the large clods.

Next step is to <a href="http://youtu.be/t5F7gWUL7T4?list=UU4gFuJx6qHbiK0FRREh2lDw">use a tire drag</a> to smooth out the clods.

Next step is to <a href="http://youtu.be/tJ7yLfTallw?list=UU4gFuJx6qHbiK0FRREh2lDw">use a rotary hoe</a> to smooth out the seed bed.

Next step is to <a href="http://youtu.be/GrgtH66JLFc?list=UU4gFuJx6qHbiK0FRREh2lDw">use a cultipacker</a> prior to seeding.

Next step is to <a href="http://youtu.be/6ZnF8n3nhUE?list=UU4gFuJx6qHbiK0FRREh2lDw">use the broadcast spreader</a> to spread the seed.

Final step is to use the cultipacker once again to get good seed-to-soil contact.

Hope this helps.
 
What you need in the mix of machinery that nobody mentioned is a cultimulcher, that is like a cultipacker roller with followed by 2 rows of spring teeth followed by anouther roller. You also only want a 6' model and 8' is smallest that was made so you would need a larger unit and cut it down, fairly easy job. I am in west central Ohio in heavy clay. Plow in fall, wait untill pretty dry in spring to disk (if you had a spring tooth harrow you could get in to work sooner) 6' also ideal for your tractor and situation. Followed with the cultimulcher with teeth down to break up clods and get dug deeper than disk will do properly. And then a spike tooth drag harrow to pull back of the cultimulcher. Actually the disk you will never get to work the ground as it should. You should have a drag type of disk with a blade spacing of 6 1/2 to 7" with 18" blades. Most moden 3 point disks have a about a 9" blade spacing and that is just too wide a spacing to actually do good in 95% of conditions. Me I would plow and cultimulcher times 2 with second time over the spike tooth harror and I would sell that 3 point disk to some other sucker.
 
good post,
but one question,

all those old green tractors, do they need a tune-up, they sound like they are all running on just "two cylinders"

Ha, Ha!

great pictures
 
Glad you enjoyed the videos.

We use all of our old JD tractors for various jobs here on the farm.

Having only two cylinders makes it a lot easier to remember the firing order.

Here's <a href="http://youtu.be/h0XE0WEDZ1Q?list=UU4gFuJx6qHbiK0FRREh2lDw">another video of seed bed preparation</a> we did last Spring.
 
I haven't used our 8N to plow or disc in about 20 years. We usuall use 3-16 mounted or 3-18 two way plow with a horse big enough that there is no issue pulling it. Our disc are big and heavy, I've seen them down to the hubs in some of our ground. After everything is plowed and disced depending on what is going to be planted it is either roller harrowed or rototilled. The roller harrow leaves a firm level planting surface, the rototiller leaves a fluffy level planting surface. Depends on what type of plater and crop will be planted. We do a lot of vegtables with small light planters that are not forgiving in rough seed beds.
 

A lot depends on YOU knowing your soil..

Here in Central Ohio, you can turn Clay soil most any time (except for too wet) and work it down..
In Black Wax, (on our ground) it was time to plow when water was about standing in the field..BUT..you had better NOT Plow it Dry in the Summer or you would not get it worked down well at all And pulling so hard we would be breaking Cover-Boards off. That is best plowed in the Fall and let lay 'till Spring and than it will be like Ashes..
Work your ground when it is moist, but not wet and the clods will break up.
Forget getting a Rear Rototiller for your Early Ford, it is way too short on power and too fast in 1st gear for it to work out.

Ron.
 
James, I really enjoyed your videos. Great choice of music too. They are truly amazing. I use old John Deere too in North Dakota. Take care. Richard
 
How big a garden are we talking about?

I have a 60'x150' that I plow,disc, and drag. I use a IHC251
planter to plant sweet corn, several different kinds of beans
and peas. My soil is clay and was tough going the 1st couple
years. I'm in Houston so don't get a winter freeze. I plant in
the spring and a cover crop in the fall. I hauled lots of manure
and dumped anything organic in the garden. It's the 3rd year
and is now working pretty good with the big seed and relatively
heavy planter. No way the earthway and small seed are
going to work in this garden.

My second plot is 25'x100' with 16-25' rows. This is where I
grow all my small seed and plants. Same soil, same
amendments. In order to plant small seed like
carrots,beets,spinach etc. I till the row, use a hoe to cut a V
for the seed, fill the V with potting soil and then run the
earthway. That works perfect as the potting soil is fine
enough to hold moisture, and the earthway works perfect.

My soil is slick as snot when too wet and hard as rock when
too dry. Catching the perfect moisture content to be able to
work the soil is critical.
 
I lived in Houston a few years, tried to grow a garden.

I came from KY, where we had great soil fairly easy to work with.

That Houston gumbo was a mess to work with for a KY boy,

but as you, I started dumping everything organic I could find into my garden plot, by the third year, that garden would grow anything and was easy to work.

People who have never seen gumbo soil would not believe how hard it can get if worked wet.
 
Make one pass with the disc, then plow in direction of disc, then do another disc at angle to plowed garden rows. Check the field for lumps and make another angled pass opposite the first. If you look around you might find a springtooth or spike drag for a final finish or cultimacher/mulcher rig with the rolling spiked wheels and S or C tines A 24 inch disc blade will cut deep- but that size is for the big rigs. Ns and 3 pt small discs get the 8 to maybe 14 inch disc blades- what diameter do you have on your 6 footer? Is it a single angle or a double angled X?- I'd guess likely a single V with maybe 10 or 12 inch blades? That will give you 4 inchs to maybe 6 inch of dirt stirring at best. Ford Ns 2 bottom originally were 2-12 with 2-14 later on after the OHV engines. Some 3-8s were made for smaller lumps but shallow - lighter soils or fine seed use. the 1-16 was the 'deep digger' and about all a 9 or 8N could handle in clay- but has been popular with garden workers past few years planting tubers since it can dig 8 inches using the old 1/2 the width of share deep adjustments rule of thumb- and will bury the manure put in furrow on next pass. A few people have made up sort of field cultivators by adding a section springtooth in back of the disc blades for the Ns and similar or just chain a section of the old folding wing spike tooth drags to back of disc frame for garden beds when they have the turning room. The little old Fords have their uses but the equipment varies from light 'Garden' newer stuff to the older, heavier 'Corn Field' prep implements of the late 1940s,1950s. A 3 pt toolbar with chisels, Danish S tines that extend a bit outside of tire track can do a fair job of lump breaking-- but you note only the cut down one share plow and the disc- so 2 pass at diagonal with disc after plowing is about best advice for what you have to work with. RN
 
I understand.

I learned to garden in Iowa's rich black soil. I had to start my learning process over when I came to TX and discovered gumbo clay.
 

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