NH68 Update 8/8/14

Bill VA

Well-known Member
Spent a little time this evening with the NH68. Tripping the knotters and watching the relationship between the plunger, needles and knotter. I don't know who designed this stuff, but I'm always amazed at the brains of the folks that came up with these complex interacting mechanisms - and without the benefit of computers, calculators and CAD.

Bottom line on my baler is - it is out of time.

The knotter dots are at least one chain link off - might replace the knotter chain. Called two different New Holland dealers and neither carry New Holland part numbered chain - both carry after market chain and want 8-ish dollars a foot. Tractor Supply has a 10 ft roll of the chain for around 18-20-ish dollars. The TSC stuff is made in China, but I have a hunch so is the after market chain the NH dealer is selling. Anyone have any experience with the TSC chains?

The next thing out on the timing is the needles. They are coming into the baler very late in the cycle. When I trip the knotters, the plunger moves towards the rear - as it should, but per the manual, the tips of the needles are probably 3 or more inches into the slots of the plunger as they come into the chamber where that distance should be less than an inch. The rod that cycles the needles from the knotters, doesn't have a bow in it - that I've seen in manuals. When that rod cycles close to the baler sheet metal, it touches it slightly. I think that bow is there for clearance.

As the needles are heading to the home position, the plunger is beginning to make its way back down the chamber and because the needles are entering the bale chamber early with respect to the position of the plunger at the start of a knot cycle, as they return home, they are not getting out of the chamber fast enough and the plunger stop - stops the plunger, as it should. While the baler is outwardly in very good shape, my guess is shearing the flywheel bolt and the inability of the seller to time the baler (they had no manual specific to this baler), is likely why it set in a shed for 20 years. The appearance of a round baler probably helped ice the retirement of this baler.

Other observations, there are only 2 hay dogs on the top of this baler and they are on the center and pick-up side of the bale chamber. I see a slot where a hay dog might be located on the far bale chamber side, but no fastener holes to mount one. Doesn't look like this baler ever had a third hay dog. Question is - would a NH68 have 2 or 3 hay dogs on top of the bale chamber? I know later models did.

There are 4 vertical wedges on the side of the bale chamber, two per side. They are in great shape. There are two wedges in the bottom of the bale chamber and one larger hay dog looking wedge (for lack of a better word) in the bottom of the chamber centered between them - but further back towards the plunger.

Looked at the legacy paint on the feeder forks - don't see where the forks have been moved out of their factory position as shown by unpainted marks.

It is raining like crazy today, dark and dreary. Supposed to rain all weekend. Maybe tomorrow I'll get back out where the camp is and the baler for more tinkering.

I'd like to have a test run at baling some hay over Labor Day weekend - we'll see.

Bill
 
I bought TSC chain for the main drive chain on my 68 and it has been through two seasons and baled about 2000 bales without a problem. That isn't saying a lot but I have been happy with it so far.
Zach
 
I don't buy Chinese chain if I can avoid it at all. My preference is for US made Drives chain which I usually get from Deere with their label on it. It's also available from Shoup IIRC..

Cheap chain is not worth the trouble it causes. I've had china chain, out of the box that was snakier than the old Drives I took off. It's just junk... and that includes all of the old reliable standards such as Reynold, Tsubacki, Rex, etc...

Rod
 
Google rollerchain4less. They sell by the 10, 50, or 100' roll. Cheaper than the dealer, and much better quality than tsc or other cheap chain. Atleast what I have found.

Donovan from Wisconsin
 
do you have an owner's manual? If not, get one or a copy. I run JD balers but there is no way to time them without the written step by step instructions. It would be best to replace any main drive chains and shear pins. Sometimes the pins are half sheared meaning they have some slop in them. On a JD 336 baler, the knotter drive is a set of gears. The main gear has a bushing and pin. When these are worn, timing gets sloppy.
 
(quoted from post at 02:59:40 08/09/14) Spent a little time this evening with the NH68. Tripping the knotters and watching the relationship between the plunger, needles and knotter. I don't know who designed this stuff, but I'm always amazed at the brains of the folks that came up with these complex interacting mechanisms - and without the benefit of computers, calculators and CAD.

Bottom line on my baler is - it is out of time.

The knotter dots are at least one chain link off - might replace the knotter chain. Called two different New Holland dealers and neither carry New Holland part numbered chain - both carry after market chain and want 8-ish dollars a foot. Tractor Supply has a 10 ft roll of the chain for around 18-20-ish dollars. The TSC stuff is made in China, but I have a hunch so is the after market chain the NH dealer is selling. Anyone have any experience with the TSC chains?

The next thing out on the timing is the needles. They are coming into the baler very late in the cycle. When I trip the knotters, the plunger moves towards the rear - as it should, but per the manual, the tips of the needles are probably 3 or more inches into the slots of the plunger as they come into the chamber where that distance should be less than an inch. The rod that cycles the needles from the knotters, doesn't have a bow in it - that I've seen in manuals. When that rod cycles close to the baler sheet metal, it touches it slightly. I think that bow is there for clearance.

As the needles are heading to the home position, the plunger is beginning to make its way back down the chamber and because the needles are entering the bale chamber early with respect to the position of the plunger at the start of a knot cycle, as they return home, they are not getting out of the chamber fast enough and the plunger stop - stops the plunger, as it should. While the baler is outwardly in very good shape, my guess is shearing the flywheel bolt and the inability of the seller to time the baler (they had no manual specific to this baler), is likely why it set in a shed for 20 years. The appearance of a round baler probably helped ice the retirement of this baler.

Other observations, there are only 2 hay dogs on the top of this baler and they are on the center and pick-up side of the bale chamber. I see a slot where a hay dog might be located on the far bale chamber side, but no fastener holes to mount one. Doesn't look like this baler ever had a third hay dog. Question is - would a NH68 have 2 or 3 hay dogs on top of the bale chamber? I know later models did.

There are 4 vertical wedges on the side of the bale chamber, two per side. They are in great shape. There are two wedges in the bottom of the bale chamber and one larger hay dog looking wedge (for lack of a better word) in the bottom of the chamber centered between them - but further back towards the plunger.

Looked at the legacy paint on the feeder forks - don't see where the forks have been moved out of their factory position as shown by unpainted marks.

It is raining like crazy today, dark and dreary. Supposed to rain all weekend. Maybe tomorrow I'll get back out where the camp is and the baler for more tinkering.

I'd like to have a test run at baling some hay over Labor Day weekend - we'll see.

Bill

I had put this in the other thread but I would not use the TSC chain on the knotters. The TSC chain is very soft and stretches easily. When you figure new needles are $150.00 a piece is it worth saving money on the chain? You can order genuine CNH chain online but you should ask your dealer what brand of chain they are selling. My local Agco dealer sells diamond brand and it is very good chain. It costs more but it's worth it. I used to break the TSC chain using it on a go cart. That's saying a lot.
 
The third hay dog is on the bottom of the chamber pointing upward. The three hay dogs hold the flakes in place so they don't compress and decompress with the action of the plunger. They hold what's in the chamber in compression. look underneath, you'll see the brackets. Without that in place, you'll never make a good bale.
 
I'm with Zachary. I used TSC chain in a pinch because I had a field of hay down and rain was coming, no other choice. That was 4-5 thousand bales ago. Keep it lubed and it works fine.
 
Just to be clear on nomenclature, a hay dog is a dog-leg shaped piece of cast iron with a pivot hole in one end for a pin, and is held in place by a red "U shaped spring. The pin goes though one eye of the spring, through the bracket on the the baler, through the dog, through the second bracket, through the second eye and is held in place by a cotter pin.
 
The wedge you are looking at on the bottom of the chamber is probably the plunger stop, If you ever need to remove the plunger from the baler, that has to come out. There is a second stop on the left hand side of the baler with a spring that stops the needles from entering the chamber too early, and being broken by the plunger.
 
Bill Va,

Earlier you had a discussion on chain stretch. If your chain has stretched enough to need to remove a link, then the stretch has pushed your timing back by about half a tooth, and there is also significant slack or play between the chain and each sprocket. Please bite the bullet and replace a badly stretched timing chain before you try to re-time the knotters, it will save you some grief. FYI, a stretched chain will shift timing much more than worn sprockets can.

You can check how much a chain has stretched by measuring pin to pin over a foot length of chain. #40 chain links are .50 inches long, there are 24 links per foot of new chain. #60 chain links are .75 inches long, there are 16 links per foot of new chain. #80 chain links are 1.00 inches long, there are 12 links per foot of new chain.

Generally, you want to replace most roller chains before they reach 3/4 of a percent stretch, or a foot of chain measures 12 3/32 inches long (12.093 inches). The sprockets will be worn, but they should still be usable for non-timing applications.

If a foot of chain has stretched to 12 1/8 inch, you have 1 percent stretch. The chain definitely needs to be replaced, and the sprockets are likely to be heavily worn. Heavily worn sprockets will shorten the life of any new chain, so you may also want to replace the sprockets with the chain.

For timing chains, you may want to replace the chain at only 1/2 percent stretch, or a foot of chain measures 12 and 1/16 inch. The chain is very close to the end of it's life, but the sprockets should still be in good condition. After 1/2 percent stretch chains do wear more quickly and will cause wear on sprockets.

As far as life of chains vrs. chain quality, it depends on how much you will use it. If you bale 10,000+ bales a year a cheap chain will wear out and cause problems fast. If you bale 500 bales a year the same cheap chain could last for decades.

Good luck.
 
Thanks for the comments!

Without a doubt I'm going to replace the knotter drive chain. What I'm having trouble with locally is finding a dealer with decent chain that is not Chinese aftermarket stuff. I'll go mail order on the chain with Diamond brand (or something similar in quality) as was recommended.

Mostly learning this baler right now, asking questions and going over and over the manual, past internet posts, youtube videos, etc.

This NH68 may be the last baler I own - other than a round baler in the future. No more hay than me and the boys cut (10-12 acres), I'll pour a quality effort in getting it going again - so not planning on any short cuts, even with the chain.

Thanks again,
Bill
 
Yes - I've got three spring loaded hay dogs in the bale chamber. Two on the top and one centered on the bottom as you describe. So it sounds like I'm good there.

Thanks for your replies!
Bill
 
Thanks for the reply!

Looking for a quality - long term chain right now. I guess I
could use the TSC stuff in a pinch. Don't really want to gamble
with breaking a needle.

Question is - if the plunger stop is doing its job, then how could
a broken knotter chain cause the plunger to send a hay wedge
into the needles and break them in the first place?

Again - going with quality chain from the get go.

Thanks for your reply!

Bill
 
Thanks for your reply!

First thing I did, before I brought the baler home was to have the dealer order me a manual and have it in hand as I look-over and learn this baler.

Also reading a ton of posts and watching baler videos in YouTube, especially the one by New Holland.

Thanks!
Bill
 
Thanks for the info. First choice would be a quality chain, but as I mentioned in an earlier post, the TSC stuff would be good to have in my hip pocket if I needed it in a pinch.

Thanks again,
Bill
 
Thanks for the reply. Good to know the TSC stuff can be a fill-in chain when needed.

Question is - do you plan on running it until it breaks or are you going to replace the TSC stuff sooner than later?

Thanks,
Bill
 
I was trying to emphasize that an un-stretched chain is important for timing.

For 12 acres of hay I think I would go with the less expensive TSC chain, and then concentrate on getting the baler running well before investing big money into it.

In new condition, a TSC chain will work just as well as a more expensive chain, it just won't last as long before it stretches too much. The TSC chain's life might only be 10,000 bales, but that will still be several years for you. That's enough run time to determine if you can get the 68 working like a fine watch, or if you want to replace the whole baler.

Good luck.
 
The dots are only a starting mark. Go ahead tell me its not true! Uses 2040 chain. The needle tips should be entering bottom of bale case when tips on plunger face get to needles.
 

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