Front weights and discing very uneven ground with a Ford 640

Hi, All,

I am using a Ford 640 and a 5 1/2 foot athens 3-pt disc to prepare my garden. I previously have only used a moldboard plow and disc to prepare food plots..... but....

I turned over old sod last fall using a disc plow, with the result that the soil is crazy uneven and lumpy. I am still glad I used it as there were occasional large rocks and roots and buried branches which would have made trouble for a moldboard plow as first pass in breaking land that hadn't been plowed in 50 years.

We have had a dry week and some warm weather in central TN so after noting that most of the soil was dry enough to crumble in my hands I thought I would take a few passes at leveling the bumps with my disc harrow. It probably wont be dry again til june. This effort has led to some noob questions.

The disc is heavy enough that if I let out the clutch a little too aggressively with the 3pt up I will take the front wheels off the ground.

First question: how much of a light nose is a bad thing, and should I try to hang some weights up front, and if so, how? The tractor has nothing for that right now, but there is an older beat-up bumper I can use.

The tractor was difficult to use on the very bumpy ground left by the disc plow; I was constantly adjusting the three point control lever to shift weight to the rear wheels and also lighten the front wheels when I would get in a hole. I was constantly starting and stopping- trying to run through it with any kind of momentum would have risked breaking the tractor, I think, when a front wheel dropped in a hole left by the disc plow. Not to mention I would have been bucked out of the seat and then run over by the disc.

Second question: Short of just spending 5-6 hours going over this slowly and carefully again and again as I can, is there a better more obvious way to level the holes and hills left by the disc plow that I am missing? The athens disc lets you flip up the rear gang to increase pressure on the front gang- I was going to try that and also reduce the aggressive cut of the discs.

thanks in advance for the advice to a noob.
 
Yep know what your saying. If you have something like a drag harrow you could run it over the plowed ground first to make it less rough. As for the light front end that was one of the problems the fords had with the 3 point system. Yes you can hang suit case weights on a bumper. As to hw many we can not say you will just have to try say 2 and if you need more ad them till it stays down and handle like you want.
By the Way how close are you to Franklin TN. I have a friend who lives in that area
 
Doctors will not let me drive that far any more LOL. Have an old Navy buddy who live in the Franklin area. Last name of Thomas. He has alpacas
 
that is one problem with the disc plow, they will leave the ground somewhat rougher,

but, they will break ground that you might not have been able to turn over with an older flat bottom plow, the newer flat bottoms have the break a way feature which protects the plow, tractor and you as the rider.

I have a section harrow, But really, I think of it more as a finishing tool, like after I sow seed, run over the ground with the section harrow, it levels the ground and covers the seed, then come back with the cultipacker and you are ready to see some grass grow.

one other option that old dude's used to do, they would drag a large log, say a 10ft log about 18" in diameter over the ground, the log would fill in the some of the holes and level the ground so it would be easier on the tractor/disc that first time over.

the log is heavier than the section harrow and will level the rough ground better.

might be worth a try.

I sure enjoy using my old disc plow and yes they will dig up, kick out roots, rocks just about anything. Then keep on going where the flat bottoms would have been hung up or broken.
 
It sounds similar to earlier, "amateurish" LOL ! tillage I've done, with about the same size implements, no disc plow, just a moldboard plow.

Even with this, uneven sod/root/soil you have, hasn't it been said here, a bad plow job in the fall is better than a good one in the winter ?

You're not so new, having done your food plots, LOL! Well, you've done this before at least.

Thinking back to heavy thick sod areas, mold board plowed that with less than desirable results, it would seem to me the first pass would be the roughest, I'd try to work my way into it, but with the 6' front and rear gang type of disc, I was always able to level it out, only trouble I had was what did not get covered would grow back. First round can be rough, I suppose if you had something real weak or stressed, like a spindle or something else, the rough terrain could break something, but for the most part, I would go real slow first, just to knock it down, then try it diagonally to the way I plowed, favoring the side the sod would have rolled over. I have a loader on my tractor, and I've had areas that came out very uneven, while discing, I would curl the bucket down and sort of float it by hand, using it as a screed, disc fully engaged into the ground, just watch to make sure you are filling in the low spots, and if clumps of sod want to collect, I'll pile them so as not to lose that soil, work that in the next time I am doing tillage in that area, or fill low spots. Yes, conceivably with bucket like that you could catch something, bend a cylinder, farmer I used to help did not like when I did that, but I took it slow and just knocked over the easy stuff, no digging, and in clear ground,no stumps or big rocks, I was a dozer operator for several years, its just natural for me.

I seeded an old garden for my neighbor 10 years back, it was weeds, grass, etc, so I plowed it with a moldboard, similar results, I did not like how it turned out, so I let it sit, used the disc to knock it down, then plowed it one more time, came out nice, then disc'd,. firmed by back dragging, planted, covered with mulch, rye seed in that made a nurse or cover crop, grass came in from edge to edge, very nice and still is today. That was really nice soil, heavy, deep loam, plow went deep enough to stop the tractor, no subsoil.

You may find an angle to knock it down, at first it may be rough. Front end getting light, usually calls for some weight if you can, pain to steer when the front wheels come up.

Also be aware of compaction, hardpan etc., too many passes, repeated use of tillage implements that do this in soils where its prevalent, in that case use a subsoiler when the ground is hard and dry if possible, so it fractures. Hard to do when its in use when it does dry out like that. You will sever roots, use a shear protected or similar model if possible.

Heres a photo of my early attempts at tillage, plow not in the best condition, level box was seized, had to work around a few things, know better now at least ! I did get the plow to work, if you look, you can see its not really adjusted as best could be, results were good, I've cut the grass there, still smoother than my lawn is today.

CameraEmpty1-11-05029A.jpg
 
In a case like yours I usually double disc. After you make one round with the disc on the next round drive to where half the disc is on half of your first pass and half of the disc is on undisked ground. Half of the tractor and disc being on somewhat smoother ground helps somewhat. Plus double discing just cuts the soil up better.
 
Billy,
If my gardens looked that smooth when I start planting, the last thing I would do is break it again.

your plow is doing a good job and man that dirt looks black, should be able grown anything in that plot.
 
We had an 8N with a heavy brush mower. When I mowed the ditch it wanted to rear up. I would lay a sandbag across the hood behind the radiator cap (the kind you buy for the back of a pickup in winter). Our sandbags were made from old inner tubes so they were a little longer.

It worked perfect. I'm sure if I would have done it 24/7 it would have wollered out the hood holes. You are talkin one day a year, though.
 
I have this same problem, only in a 5 acre corn patch. I disked it down best I could then back-set (plowed it across) it with the flat-bottom. Rather than risk getting another cracked rib from the steering wheel I took my team and 3-section spring-tooth harrow and rode the nearside horse. Lot smoother ride than the 9n or the 2000. On the flip side it took a while longer. Been thinking maybe a 9-shank tiller would work just as good?
HTH

Mac
 
My previous neighbor used to plant a garden there, I'm not sure what he may have added but, before the 3 houses were here on this lane, it was a field, 1/2 half of a real large hill, 2 large fields split by an old hedge row/fence line. Might just have been a nice patch of soil, no rocks, other places here, glacial till, all kinds of rocks, but it balances out, some areas hardly any. I don't think she would object if I wanted to plant it, though I think she likes the grasses, I'd sure as heck like to plant in that patch again its the best soil I've ever had the pleasure of working, much better than my existing sweet corn patch. His garden did well there, full sun, he used to haul water in on a trailer from one of the ponds to water it. In this case I wanted to make sure the old sod/weeds was turned under, the disc did make it nice, but it was not turned under right, 2nd time it did look nice, grass took off. I think our property line may slice through that area. That ferguson A0 14 was a friends, he never really used it, came with his 640 Ford.

Few more shots, coulter buried, plow not adjusted correctly but working. Certainly a nice patch of dirt, I should have bought the house across the lane, just for the garden LOL !

CameraEmpty1-11-05030A.jpg


CameraEmpty1-11-05031A.jpg
 

The only way that you will level it is for your disc to dig in and cut. And it will take a number of passes, I would fold up that rear gang for at least the first two and I would keep changing the direction of my passes. Yes, for the first two or three passes some front weight will certainly help your control. If you have any grass showing a pole pulled behind will tend to catch and drag it, resulting in more instead of fewer piles. I pull a pole behind only on my last pass after I reduce the cutting angle of the disc. You are obviously not accomplishing anything while you have the disc in the air to get traction, so anything that you could add to the back would help you to enable your disc to dig into the places that you really need it to.
 
Thank you. I am making sloooow progress (not today when its
12 degrees here) and my rears are loaded. I have some rear
wheel weights I could put on as well.

Can you school me a little on angle of cut for the disc- it is right
now set about as aggressive as it gets (that way when I bought it,
and the clips are rusted into the linch pins so I gotta crawl
underneath and free em to shift it)

To make the going easier I was going to back off a little on the
angle of cut, and yeah, with the disc it the air it aint doing much.

Heres a pic of how lumpy it is.
a143168.jpg
 
Not too bad, not experienced with a disc plow, so not all of the sod is turned under, but the disc will take care of that, it will be rough going at first, get one pass in, then move in less than a full width, close in on it from the sides, go diagonally through the middle both ways like an X, that will work down, break up, let it settle once broken up, hope for some rain, then you could moldboard again later, get that working right,neat furrows, you'll notice a difference when you disc again. I would leave the disc gangs out, like an X will cut more aggressively, be nice to have a heavy disc, but that Athens is probably no joke, if its a Athens/Rome Plow Mfr. I know they made some really heavy models for large equipment, be nice to see a photo of it. At lest you have plenty of time, no doubt that will work down, I've done similar with a 3 pt disc that's not all that heavy, takes a lot of passes.
 
It would be best to add enough front weights so the front end never lifts and you can safely steer at full speed in roar gear with your heaviest implement in the up position. It's no fun trying to steer with the brakes in road gear. Things happen three to four times as fast at full speed and brakes can be grappy sometimes.
 
Yep, in certain soil types, a disc plow will significantly rough up a field! You might want to check the condition of the tailwheel on your disc plow, there needs to be a lot of the replaceable coulter that acts the main wheel, (2"+) sticking out, for it to hold true to the direction it is supposed to plow.

However, what is done is done, the way to straighten out the mess you have is by discing dragging, and letting it get rained on, then doing it all over again. Also, if you can get a 5' tiller, that would help grind up some of that sod. You got your work cut out for you!
 
(quoted from post at 10:05:31 01/27/14) Hi, All,

I am using a Ford 640 and a 5 1/2 foot athens 3-pt disc to prepare my garden. I previously have only used a moldboard plow and disc to prepare food plots..... but....

I turned over old sod last fall using a disc plow, with the result that the soil is crazy uneven and lumpy. I am still glad I used it as there were occasional large rocks and roots and buried branches which would have made trouble for a moldboard plow as first pass in breaking land that hadn't been plowed in 50 years.

We have had a dry week and some warm weather in central TN so after noting that most of the soil was dry enough to crumble in my hands I thought I would take a few passes at leveling the bumps with my disc harrow. It probably wont be dry again til june. This effort has led to some noob questions.

The disc is heavy enough that if I let out the clutch a little too aggressively with the 3pt up I will take the front wheels off the ground.

First question: how much of a light nose is a bad thing, and should I try to hang some weights up front, and if so, how? The tractor has nothing for that right now, but there is an older beat-up bumper I can use.

The tractor was difficult to use on the very bumpy ground left by the disc plow; I was constantly adjusting the three point control lever to shift weight to the rear wheels and also lighten the front wheels when I would get in a hole. I was constantly starting and stopping- trying to run through it with any kind of momentum would have risked breaking the tractor, I think, when a front wheel dropped in a hole left by the disc plow. Not to mention I would have been bucked out of the seat and then run over by the disc.

Second question: Short of just spending 5-6 hours going over this slowly and carefully again and again as I can, is there a better more obvious way to level the holes and hills left by the disc plow that I am missing? The athens disc lets you flip up the rear gang to increase pressure on the front gang- I was going to try that and also reduce the aggressive cut of the discs.

thanks in advance for the advice to a noob.



I would use wheel weights. Easier on front end and makes tractor more stable. North State Sales Co. has these for your tractor
 

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