Bill hook will not release knot after making it.

Shealray

Member
Bill hook will not release knot after making it.

My Newholand 68 square baler makes the knot, but grabs a little of the end by clamping down on it. The bill hook clamps enough twine so it will not release the knot. It is like the knot is not getting pushed off the bill hook fast enough and it is getting caught by the bill hook in the closed position. Almost like a timing issue?
Bill hook is smooth the clamp is holding the very end of the knot.

Just the knoter on the side close to the knotter brake.

Thanks for the help
 
First thing to check is that there is no roughness
on billhook assembly - polish with very fine emery
cloth... Check to see that wiper/knife arm is
making proper contact with heel of billhook for
entire swipe of the arm. Make sure arm is
completing the entire swipe clear past the
billhook end. Make sure the hook assembly has
enough space to allow the twine ends to slide out
and under. Is twine tension too tight such that
the twine is not being pulled too tight around
billhook assy in the knotting cycle. Check entire
twine path for smooth flow of twine from ball in
box clear through to the knotter. Check twine
fingers for proper travel in their cycle.

Did I miss anything, guys?
 
(quoted from post at 07:33:00 11/11/13) First thing to check is that there is no roughness
on billhook assembly - polish with very fine emery
cloth... Check to see that wiper/knife arm is
making proper contact with heel of billhook for
entire swipe of the arm. Make sure arm is
completing the entire swipe clear past the
billhook end. Make sure the hook assembly has
enough space to allow the twine ends to slide out
and under. Is twine tension too tight such that
the twine is not being pulled too tight around
billhook assy in the knotting cycle. Check entire
twine path for smooth flow of twine from ball in
box clear through to the knotter. Check twine
fingers for proper travel in their cycle.

Did I miss anything, guys?

How can I set the baler up to simulate hay in it without putting it in the baler? I am guessing I have been hand turn the baler by flywheel so I can see the motion of the knotter. What I have done is set this baler up as a station without moving. Using my ford 850 tractor in neutral low as I can get it to turn the baler and pitch have in it from my big round bale. It works good made some 35 lb bales I could handle without outgoing in the field to pick them up. I do not want to put hay in the baler to test the knotter.
 
Try loosening the spring pressure on the bill hook. Only turn it a flat or two at a time. Run a few bales and see what happens. Check the wipper arm and see if its travel is the same as the side that works correctly. I have seen the wipper arm get sprung a little and not wipe the knott off the bill hook. Check the bushing in the wiper arm to see if it is sloppy.Funny how something can work well for years then one day need readjusting, but it sometimes happens.
 
Probably not going to test well without hay. Will
tangle up the twine. (ask how I know) You can trip
the knotter after a partial bale forms, and then
have another person turn flywheel slowly as you
watch the tieing cycle. Even at idle tractor will turn it too fast to see what's going on.
 

If waper arm needs adjusting do I hit it with a hammer or use a pry bar.

Do you have a way of simulating hay to test knotter? I do not want to run hay through getting late in the season.
 

OK guess I will make a small bale and hand rotate with fly wheel. I have done this. The knot is being made and moved off the bill. Bill is catching the very tail and clamping on it.
What do you think?
 
9 times out of 10 it is the wiper arm. they get a little worn or bent
and don't clean the twine off the hook. If you haven'r adjusted the
bill hook spring I would suggest checking the wiper. To test I
always loosened the knotter frame and rotated the frame upward
checking the wiper clearance. It should drag ever so slightly across
the bottom of the bill hook. Check your manual..it should give you
the "clearance". I've always had JD square balers..now switched to
big round.. but that is what I did in the shop every winter.
 
do yourself a favor and open up 3 or 4 bales of hay and just throw them into the baler while you run it at full speed.

Trying to do it by hand is an exercise in futility. Yes, it's a good way to catch an obvious timing problem, but when it comes to issues like you're having, the knotters are going to work differently at speed an under tension. Best to adjust and test under real world conditions.

Only "trick" is to kick the knotters early - make half sized bales so you don't have to wait forever.

It'll take at least three bales, four or five would be better. You'll lose a lot on the ground, and you'll probably be at it for MANY cycles, the hay keeps getting crunched and mutilated - so you need a lot of extra to consistently churn out test bale after test bale.
 
To check the knotter action without hay, this is what I did. Cut a 1x2 board a couple inches narrower than bale width, Cut two kerfs for the twine to lay in, Trip the knotter, roll it thru the needles laying the twine in the cord holder. Now take the board you made hook it behind the twine and take a bungee cord and pull it toward the end of the chute and secure the bungees. Now take a 2x4 of coorect width and pull twine to the bottom of chute below knooters just as if it were a bale just completed. .secure the 2x then trip the knotter. Of course it is better to have someone else turn the flywhell so you can watch the whole knotter operation. After the knotter is done you should be able to pull your little loops of twine from the bill hooks. This was the only way I could run mine thru a cycle with out the twine getting all tangled up. I wish you well. gobble
 
I guess I didn't make myself clear. By rotating the knotter frame
upwards after removing the lower frame bolts, you will engage the
wiper arm in the knotter "wheel" or what ever it is called. This
"engagement' will then move the wiper arm across the lower end of
the bill hook. This is very easy to do and doesn't require the
gymnastics suggested. In addition a visual inspection will let you
know if you have worn parts and a small scale will allow you to
adjust your bill hook tension properly. I never ran hay though my
baler while repairing/adjusting/timing the knotter mechanism, as it
is not necessary.
 
(quoted from post at 12:03:15 11/11/13) I guess I didn't make myself clear. By rotating the knotter frame
upwards after removing the lower frame bolts, you will engage the
wiper arm in the knotter "wheel" or what ever it is called. This
"engagement' will then move the wiper arm across the lower end of
the bill hook. This is very easy to do and doesn't require the
gymnastics suggested. In addition a visual inspection will let you
know if you have worn parts and a small scale will allow you to
adjust your bill hook tension properly. I never ran hay though my
baler while repairing/adjusting/timing the knotter mechanism, as it
is not necessary.

OK lesson 101 in adjustment to knotter. Do you have picture of where to place the scale and how much tension is correct? Can you tell me what type of scale and where to place it?
Thank you
 
On my NH271 when that happens the twine knife is dull or the arm is not close enough to the bill hook to push the knot off as it should
 
(quoted from post at 13:49:38 11/11/13) On my NH271 when that happens the twine knife is dull or the arm is not close enough to the bill hook to push the knot off as it should

Hey good to hear from you we liked the pole bean idea and will use it in our garden. Side note. I am looking for my mom blood realitive

I will sharpen the twine knife and see if the arm is to far away.

I am looking for my mom blood relatives. My mom died a few years ago, but she would have been around 86 or 87 today. When she was a little girl she was placed the states children’s home located in Carrollton Missouri between the years of 1929-1932. Maupins took her from the Children’s home and never officially adopted her they also brought my mom brother Raymond with her.
Her name was Florence Anderson her mom was of Native American decent last name Yowell.
I never had a birth certificate for her and she always said I was Native American. I thought the Yowell
Family lived around the Lake of the Ozarks. Maybe you have heard of them. Hope you do not mind me asking.
 
Gymnastics, sorry I'm just a dumb city kid who never baled any hay til a couple years ago. Did'nt know a bill hook from a bilford, did'nt know a cordholder from a cord of wood. While I can read very well and have pretty good comprehension, the manual did not put a good picture in my head. I needed to WATCH it do what it does to better understand how it all works. For me simple is usually better. And my gymnastics did just that. gobble
 
I could make knots on my 311 by using bungee cords to pull the #1 twine toward the chute. Trip the knotter and roll it over by hand and it made correct knots.
 
One more thing is to make sure that the wiper arm
is going past the billhook about a half inch and do
what everybody else said and try loosening off the
twine tension at the twine disk
 
(quoted from post at 10:53:22 11/11/13) To check the knotter action without hay, this is what I did. Cut a 1x2 board a couple inches narrower than bale width, Cut two kerfs for the twine to lay in, Trip the knotter, roll it thru the needles laying the twine in the cord holder. Now take the board you made hook it behind the twine and take a bungee cord and pull it toward the end of the chute and secure the bungees. Now take a 2x4 of coorect width and pull twine to the bottom of chute below knooters just as if it were a bale just completed. .secure the 2x then trip the knotter. Of course it is better to have someone else turn the flywhell so you can watch the whole knotter operation. After the knotter is done you should be able to pull your little loops of twine from the bill hooks. This was the only way I could run mine thru a cycle with out the twine getting all tangled up. I wish you well. gobble

I think making a simulating bale "fake" from canvus stuffed with hay would to the trick. I have canvus and can sew. I will make the test baler and post a picture of it. Thanks fot the idea.
 

Everyone learns differently some use a book and others need hands on. All types of people are needed in this world. Different ideas how to approach a problem are also needed. Keep the ideas coming no matter how small this is what I love about the people on this forum.
Thanks for the assistance.
 
If you can post a picture of what the knot looks like tha tmay also help us help you. I have a Baler manual that has a good bit of trouble shooting info so a picture would help me figure out which area to tell you to look at
 
If I follow what you're saying correctly... you're saying that the billhook finger is hanging onto the tail end of the knot rather than the actual knot itself?
If that's the case the first thing I'd do is unbolt the knotter frames and flip them up. I suspect that the twine knives simply need sharpening. I don't recall how they're attached on that baler... some you can unbolt the knife off the stripper arm and some you need to remove the arm. File a good sharp bevel on the knife with a medium flat file and reinstall. With the knotter flipped up move it such that you can move the stripper arm over the billhook. Make sure that the stripper makes good contact with the hook at about the midpoint of the hook and follows the arc of the billhook through it's cycle. If that appears good, bolt the knotter frames back in place.
For dry testing... what I usually do, with the bale chamber completely empty... I run the PTO at idle and very carefully reach into the chamber, minding the timing carefully and grab the string very carefully. I pull a bunch of string up and out, then trip the knotters. It's very important that you hold tension on the strings or the knot will not form... If you can do that at idle in the shop then it will tie when you get to the field unless there's a problem with the hay dogs. Keep in mind that if the hay dogs do not drop and hold the charge, the baler will not tie properly or ties sporadically...
If it still doesn't tie and it's not releasing the knot from the billhook... THEN you can try releasing some tension from the billhook finger one turn at a time until it slips off.

Rod
 
(quoted from post at 16:36:37 11/12/13) If I follow what you're saying correctly... you're saying that the billhook finger is hanging onto the tail end of the knot rather than the actual knot itself?
If that's the case the first thing I'd do is unbolt the knotter frames and flip them up. I suspect that the twine knives simply need sharpening. I don't recall how they're attached on that baler... some you can unbolt the knife off the stripper arm and some you need to remove the arm. File a good sharp bevel on the knife with a medium flat file and reinstall. With the knotter flipped up move it such that you can move the stripper arm over the billhook. Make sure that the stripper makes good contact with the hook at about the midpoint of the hook and follows the arc of the billhook through it's cycle. If that appears good, bolt the knotter frames back in place.
For dry testing... what I usually do, with the bale chamber completely empty... I run the PTO at idle and very carefully reach into the chamber, minding the timing carefully and grab the string very carefully. I pull a bunch of string up and out, then trip the knotters. It's very important that you hold tension on the strings or the knot will not form... If you can do that at idle in the shop then it will tie when you get to the field unless there's a problem with the hay dogs. Keep in mind that if the hay dogs do not drop and hold the charge, the baler will not tie properly or ties sporadically...
If it still doesn't tie and it's not releasing the knot from the billhook... THEN you can try releasing some tension from the billhook finger one turn at a time until it slips off.

Yes the billhook finger is hanging onto the tail end of the knot. I will sharpen knives and make sure the stripper makes good contact with the hook per your description.
Thanks for the help it is appreciated.


Rod
 

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