JD knotter driving me nuts!!!!

JD Seller

Well-known Member
Bought a JD 327 with the knotters broken. I have it all back together. We baled some with it this week. It will tie a perfect knot if you crowd the heck out of it. Baling like normal it will pull some of the strands of twine back through the knot. Not the whole twine just about a 1/3 of one string.(the knot in the picture is the full string fold back into the knot. This is not what I have. I just have a few strands of one twine) Not completely through just folded and back under the twine. This makes that knot be loose. About half of them will break when the ejector throws the bale. Only the right knotter doing this. Left ties perfectly.

Sisal twine or plastic. It does it on both.

The bill hooks are new. I have polished them to make double sure they do not have a burr on them to catch the twine. They hold the knot and twine fine.

Wiper arms are set correctly. Never have a knot left on the bill hook.. The twine knives are razor sharp and cutting square ends.

The little bit that is folded is cut.

At hand speed the knotter will tie a perfect knot every time. At PTO speed without any hay it will tie perfectly. When in hay it will tie 90% perfectly. 10% folded and 10% of them break. So it is a real low number that break.

I have rarely had one that would tie fine slow and then not when at speed.

It is almost like the tongue is spearing part of the twine when it grabs the twine. It clears fine slow and fast you can't see what is happening as it ties.

I am stumped as to what to try next. It is not the one string folded. I have had that happen and it is usually the wiper arm not centered correctly over the bill hook. The tails are long enough too. I first thought it was pulling a tail back through the knot. I watched the bales and found some that held and then untied the knot. You can see the few strands of sisal folded and tucked under the knot.
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I've not been around a JD baler ever, and very little of the New Holland. In saying that, my old NH271, would NOT make a bale the last 3 days. I finally figured out the hay was too wet. That is not your issue, but its what I had going on.
 
As per the manual for the 14T you have either. Insufficient travel of knife arm past bill hook
Or Bill hook pressure arm spring too loose
Or dull twine knife.
As per the manual I have for the old 14T but should pretty much be the same on that one
 
OLD read my post closely. I do not have exactly the knot in the picture. It was just the closest picture I have of what it is doing. The solution that you are referring to is the same one my 327 manual has in it. The trouble is that none of the things they say are causing the trouble will cause it on just PART of the twine. There are only maybe 20-30 individual strands being folded back.
 
There may be a pin or key partially sheared that has the right knotter just slightly off-time. We had that happen on our 14T once - took us awhile to figure it out.

Dad was a knotter expert from his binder days so he figured out what was wrong.
 
JD, compare the twine disk settings with twine threaded. You may be right that the tongue is spearing and that is set via the twine disk.

Do you have multi-twine billhooks installed?

Don't overlook the hay dogs on that side or no plungerhead extensions as that would let the hay on that side spring back ever so slightly taking the needle twine with it.
 
I had that problem (along with others) on my NH 268. Finally bit the bullet and called a experienced mechanic. When he worked over the twine fingers and set the needles very close to the twine disks, when they come up, problem went away. Twine fingers actuator rod was bent and twisted such that the twine fingers didn't go from completely parallel to bale chamber, to full 90 degrees at end of cycle.
 

As Ray mentioned, the twine discs may be out of adjustment. Check their linkage, also they may be worn enough to not do their job consistently.

My experience has been almost all with NH balers. Relative has a JD 336 and at times it has been tempermental, though mostly it has given good service. During its last problem episode I drove the baler while he walked along and observed. I adjusted the throttle by ear which he said was faster than he usually ran it and he said it seemed to work better at the higher speed.

My observation is that square balers last longer and operate better if they are sheltered from the weather.

KEH
 
Check the wear of the knife arm in the knotter frame.If it loose the the knife arm doesn't always travel the same.Try new arm or shim old one tighter.Had same problem on Nh 271.
 
I dunno... It sounds like an odd problem. I can't see how the thing could get out of time unless one of the roll pins in the hook drive is half broken. Mabey some disassembly will flush that out.
I also have a little green ba$tard (327) and it was doing something similar to the knot you pictured... on occasion. The rest of the time it was tieing the upper and dropping the lower. I sharpened the twine knives. I played with the finger and holder tension... adjusted the tucker fingers... all to little or no effect. When I got looking at it while it was running I notice that the upper hay dogs were not falling sometimes and when they didn't fall on a tie cycle... it missed. The short story is that the wrist pin on the plunger had nearly fallen out. The symptoms began something like you're dealing with and grew worse until it wouldn't tie a damn thing. New pin and bushing and it works like a charm.

Rod
 
It may help...it may not... My dad always said turn it over slowly by hand and watch. Found my problem on my Ford baler that way.
 
JD, flip up the knotter and check the bottom of the frame where the bill hook tongue roller travels and see if it is worn causing the tongue to fail to open wide enough. I've had to build up these areas on NH balers. I use a sweat-on hard surfacing specialty rod that's pink and grind to shape....Ron
 
I installed a new billhook one time and had a similar problem. The tooth on the end of the tongue had a very sharp edge and would catch a part of the twine. A little filing and it went away.
 
JD, you probably don't want to hear this, but the key may be in what you said, "I have it all back together". Take it all apart again and reassemble it. You'll probably find what you missed. Like you said, the tongue IS spearing the twine for some reason. Be sure and let us know what you find.
 

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