This baler is driving me crazy!

RayP(MI)

Well-known Member
Have been fighting this baler for several seasons. Whenever Itry to put any amount of hay through it, right knotter fails to work properly. Usually it fails to include the second (needle twine) in the knot, or simply ties the twine disk twine around it. If I move real slow, and run very thin windrows it will work OK, but as soon as I try to get any amount of hay throught it.... No where near even pushing it...

Have over the seasons, replaced about every part in it, except possibly the frame. Have worked it over time and time again, tweaked everything according to the manual. (Don"t tell me to get a manual, I have three, can quote about any line and paragraph...) Hay dogs & springs good, work fine. Twine fingers OK and seem to operate fine, have tried many adjustments. Twine finger actuating rod has been bent a couple times, but I have it nice and straight now. About the only thing the manual says that has me stumped is, "excessive space between plunger and top of bale chamber." Don"t know how to check for that one, but plunger seems to be riding fine, no wobble, etc. Short of pulling the plunger, I can"t see any way to inspect the plunger bearings.

This is on a NH 268 Hayliner, but it could as well be any small square, they all operate about the same.

Any suggestions? Nearest dealer/mechanic is over 30 miles away.
 
Keep your hands away from it when it's running this year. lol

Stuff like that was what made Dad buy an AC RotoBaler back in the day. It eliminated the knotter,but he didn't like having to chop the bales apart with an ax that next winter.
 
What twine do you use? Have you tried a heavy poly like 9000 or 7200? I find that poly cures a lot of problems...
I wonder if your problem isn't related to twine tension? You could have it set fine for static tension but when you push hard on the baler it's drawing it faster... and if it snags... these things happen. Other things I'd wonder about are needle placement and disc timing? How do they compare to the left side that works OK?

I don't think the plunger height is of any issue to this problem.

Rod
 
There is a 'finger' That mates into the twine holder disk.It is hidden/hard to see.Often overlooked/neglected.That finger will get a groove worn into it.That small groove will not hold the top string tight,the string pulls ut of the twine disk.Common problem on older,'hi-mileage' balers.Tighten the tention spring a little first.If that doesnt help,I would replace the finger.
 
Time flies when you're having fun.

Did you get rained off this afternoon? I had five and a half rounds left in a field when it hit.
 
Rod, use only sisal. We have sheep and plastic is hard to get out of fleeces. Needle placement is right with manual, same with twine disk - replaced double dist with triple disk a while ago. Adjusted per manual. No snagging in twine path. Sisal isn't real smoothe and even anymore. Bought from another supplier recently - there's even worse. Put it on the "good" side.
 
Classic tucker finger miss. It has to be adjusted to almost touch the needle.

If above is confirmed, check the hay dog on that side.
 
Had one load under tarp from Saturday - got it ni the barn and stacked - single handedly - that was one hot task. Lucky if we got 1/10 og an inch this evening.
 
You might pull the knotters apart and check the main shaft that everything rides on. Had an old Ford 542 years ago that would not tie properly before eleven in the morning or after five in the afternoon. Fought it for several years before I finally took the knotter off and took it apart. Accidentally discovered that the main shaft was bent. Got a new shaft and put it together. Never missed another bale.
 
For curiosity you might try the poly and see what happens. If might at least be useful for diagnosis...
How is the poly a problem with the fleece?

Rod
 
Poly gets in the fleece, is extremely difficult to remove, mechanical carders won't remove it. Then there's the problem of animals getting caught up in it, wrapped around legs, etc. Not to mention getting it in the machinery - manure spreaders, mowers, choppers, etc. Had a farmer rent the farm years back. Took me a long time to rid the farm of all the carelessly discarded poly. At least sisal is biodegradable.
 
We have a 273 and had troubles with it too till we switched to poly. Only misses a few bales a year now. I know what you mean about the strings but you just have to keep them picked up.
 
Been there. Very frustrating. I bought a new New Holland BC 5050 right after the first of the year. Started baling a week ago. Made the first 100 without issue then couldn't make another. Under warranty so had the NH baler mech out. Great guy. Spent about 45 minutes tweaking this and that. Never missed after that. just finished 2000 bales. My advice have the NH mech out. Yes it will cost you but you will get it fixed and learn how to do it next time. I'm gaining confidence all the time. Initially though I thought the model number 5050 really meant 50/50 chance you were going to get a bale!
 
Yes,the needle twine ends up being picked up in the twine disk, and is ready for next bale, no rethreading needed.
 
I've been wracking my brain trying to remember who was good with knotters around here. There were two guys who knew them inside and out,but they're dead now. I did remember one who's still alive. I don't know how much he remembers anymore,but a neighbor used to do a fair amount of custom baling and had an old IH 46 tuned to perfection. Bill Jeffery. He lives right here on Holland Road about a half mile south of County Farm. Somebody had said a while back that he was having trouble with his eyes,but he's still driving and isn't wearing glasses. He'd be the only one I'd know who might have any shot at knowing.

Did you ever check the shims on the shaft to make sure it wasn't to one side farther that it should be?
 
Shoot,I got thinking. Those IH's had their own knotter didn't they? I think they were entirely different than anything else. Bill might not know those. Don't know.
 
(quoted from post at 19:48:05 07/09/13) I guess I don't understand how it gets in the fleece? It's never been a problem here.

Rod

When we had sheep and supplied to other sheep breeders it was a big deal. The JD 336, when it cut the twine, left two short pieces on top of the bale, and those short pieces COULD get into a bale. Once in the bale they went into the hay feeder rack, and then they could easily get onto the sheep's neck. Poly in the fleece doesn't show up until it melts, then it is a major problem in production.
 
Had a similar problem on my NH 68. With heavy winrows would drop the right side knot. What I discovered is that the twine knife had wore a groove on the right side quite a bit deeper than the left in the cam. The knot was being pulled apart from the heavy hay bale before the knife could get it cut. I filled the groove with JB Weld as a test and it solved the issue. Rarely misses a bale now. I have a replacement part ready to install but the JB Weld keeps holding fine, so decided to leave it be for now.

John

 
(quoted from post at 19:32:06 07/09/13) Poly gets in the fleece, is extremely difficult to remove, mechanical carders won't remove it. [b:2f8ed40181]Then there's the problem of animals getting caught up in it, wrapped around legs, etc. Not to mention getting it in the machinery - manure spreaders, mowers, choppers, etc. Had a farmer rent the farm years back. Took me a long time to rid the farm of all the carelessly discarded poly.[/b:2f8ed40181] At least sisal is biodegradable.

Ray, no offense intended, but I raise sheep too and what you're saying makes no sense to me. You aren't just throwing a square out and leaving the twine on it are you? I guess I just don't understand where all the poly issues are coming from. We take the twine off the bale and it all gets brought back to the barn for later use or burning. I've heard other folks talk about problems like this with poly. I know if I don't keep on my "help" (the kids) they will leave it lay, but otherwise it's a non-issue.

Poly twine turned my NH 68 into a never miss knotter.
 
If it's picking the second string then it sounds like placement is correct and the twine disc is OK.
How long are the tails on the knot? Which end actually has the knot tied in it? Does it pull the string from the holder on the twine disc or break the string off?

IF it's got short tails on the knot... it's possible that the knife/stripper is not set quite correctly and the knife is too close to the billhook. If so... the tails are cut too short and when they get wiped from the billhook then the knot comes undone.
If it's pulling the top string from the holder or breaking it off then you need to adjust the holder a little bit tighter until it holds it or take a look at the twine tension...

Rod
 
Yes, the knotter always leaves those two short pieces... I find they usually fall off long before they ever get to the barn tho.... but all of mine are handled and stored on edge too. I was just curious about the reasoning because I've never ever heard of that before. Of all the things that the mills have bitched about in wool that's never one that was mentioned either... Granted, we don't feed squares to sheep either. It's been all rounds for a long time.

Rod
 
I had a problem like this on a New Holland 68. I had to replace the brass ball that rides on the inside of the cam. Over time the ball wears a flat and that slop caused the knife and wiper arm to not work properly. After changing those I barely had any knotter issues.
 
Talked with Shorty up at Tillman Hardware, Beal city. He said the problem is most like the twine finger, said it should be 90 degrees to bale chamber when at end of travel. Moved it forward toward the needle and adjusted it to meet that. Baled a few broken bales out of the barn, forking like mad.... Bales were OK for the first few, then knots started hanging on bill hook. Think I had the bale tensioners too tight. Cut some more hay today. Hopefully bale Friday, and think I"m going to invite Shorty, the mechanic.
 
(quoted from post at 06:23:53 07/10/13) Yes, the knotter always leaves those two short pieces... I find they usually fall off long before they ever get to the barn tho.... but all of mine are handled and stored on edge too. I was just curious about the reasoning because I've never ever heard of that before. Of all the things that the mills have bitched about in wool that's never one that was mentioned either... Granted, we don't feed squares to sheep either. It's been all rounds for a long time.

Rod

There was an article about it in one of the publications probably over ten years ago now, that even had pictures showing the melted twine in the partially processed wool, and then what it did once it got into the carder or something.
 
Continual loss of the # 2 twine when all knotter, twine finger, and hay dog adjustments have been checked is a good indication that hay movement in the bale chamber is deflecting the twine as it is being delivered to the knotter.

To resolve the concern add restrictors to the sides of the bale chamber to keep the hay from springing back. It was also a common fix on 60"s and 70"s NH balers to add extensions to the face of the plunger, again to move the hay further rearward during the tying cycle.
 
Have 3 restrictors on each side. Have thought about adding extensions to plunger. Baled last field with bale tension screws fairly loose, hay was extremely dry, and bales were loose.... (Actually tightened them several times, no avail.) Problem still there. Baled up a bunch of broken bales off wagons, barn today. Bales were very solid and very heavy. Doono what"s going on!
 
The fact that you can not obtain a good solid bale confirms my suspicion about hay movement.

Lets go back to windrow formation. The more uniform the windrow, and the more uniform the amount of crop flow into the baler, the more uniform the bale shape, bale length, and tying will be. Where crop fails to fill the top of the bale, increase the size of the windrow by double raking or combining windrows. Operate the baler at 540 rpm and adjust ground speed to maintain a consistent and even flow of crop into the pickup. Ground speed and crop flow that produces 14 to 16 plunger strokes (bale slices) per 36 inch bale, or 15 to 17 slices per 40 to 42 inch bale will produce the most uniform bales. As the windrow size varies, adjust the ground speed to obtain the proper number of slices per bale. In extremely light / springy hay consider bale chamber liners in addition to the hay restrictors.
 

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