Baler shearing bolts

Jamo58 · Jun 26, 2013

I have a JD 336 square baler. I"ve put a few thousand bales through this baler since I"ve had it and I"ve never had this issue until this past weekend.

When driving the baler downhill or sideways across the hill with the pick up to the down hill side, (these are western Pennsylvania hills so think steep) the needle brake is periodically tripping and the flywheel shear bolt shears. It appears that the needles are not re-setting properly. The baler bales fine when driving uphill or across the hill with the pick up to the uphill side. The problem is most pronounced when attempting to bale going straight downhill.

I baled 678 this past weekend and the problem occurred at about 400 bales and persisted through the end. After probably 15 sheared bolts, I baled the last 250 only baling uphill-this made for a long and frustrating day.

Any ideas? I"m completely stumped. Like I said, I"ve baled a few thousand driving up down and side to side on the same hills in the past without any issue...I can"t figure this out.

Thanks,
Jameson

Roger in Iowa · Jun 26, 2013

Sounds like the needle brake is not holding the needles home. There is a specification on the force to move the needle frame. See the OM.

The brake pads can become worn in the circle of the disk and touch together. Then they cannot be adjusted. Easiest to replace.

retired farmer · Jun 26, 2013

Sounds like something is out of adjustment. Have you checked the adjustment on the needle brake. Should be some friction discs in it that may be worn. If you have a book for it go thru and check all your adjustments. Things wear over time.

RodinNS · Jun 26, 2013

Probably need to tighten the needle brake... ore replace it if there's nothing left. There's also another shear bolt sort of hidden in the knotter bellcrank... and sometimes there is enough drag there to carry the needles without the shear bolt... and sometimes not... so you can check that.

Rod

Jamo58 · Jun 26, 2013

just came in from the barn after going through the OM and some other stuff and was thinking the same thing. Timing is correct, gear box is full of fluid, brake looks a little worn and once the rust was cleaned off of them (this was the first use for the season) there might not have been enough resistance - I'll have a chance in the next few days to check the adjustment on this per the OM(and probably replace the brake)...thanks for the input...I feel like it's less of a wild goose chase after hearing from you guys.

Thanks,
Jameson

Anonymous-0 · Jun 26, 2013

Carefull. That was happening on my 336. Not knowing about the needle brake,I kept pulling the needles back to the home position manually until the plunger took the tips off the needles. The tech told me usually the needle frame gets bent too but I lucked out there.And yep,it was the needle brake.

RickB · Jun 27, 2013

Setting the knotter home position is just as importane as a tight knotter brake. If the needle crank arm is home on the wrong side of center, too much brake is neededto hole the needles out of the chamber.

Tx Jim · Jun 27, 2013

(quoted from post at 05:45:31 06/27/13) Setting the knotter home position is just as importane as a tight knotter brake. If the needle crank arm is home on the wrong side of center, too much brake is neededto hole the needles out of the chamber.

RickB
How do you alter the knotter home position on a JD 336? I've been repairing the XX6 sq balers since the were introduced and I can't think of how to alter knotter home position.
Thanks,Jim

RickB · Jun 27, 2013

Maybe it can't be adjusted on the green balers. My comment was based on NH experience. On NH balers, the trip linkage is adjustable fore & aft and up & down where it contacts the clutch pawl. When the home position is properly adjusted, the needles can't drop by gravity because the knotter shaft would have to counter-rotate against the trip linkage. The brake does little to hold the needle bail in place when home is correct. If the home position is too far advanced, the needles can easily enter the chamber by gravity because the knotter shaft will turn in the direction of normal rotation. This is a fairly common and little understood new Holland maladjustment.
My bad was in assuming Deere had a similar adjustment; it seems they don't.

Tx Jim · Jun 27, 2013

(quoted from post at 17:15:05 06/27/13) [/ On NH balers, the trip linkage is adjustable fore & aft and up & down where it contacts the clutch pawl. When the home position is properly adjusted, the needles can't drop by gravity because the knotter shaft would have to counter-rotate against the trip linkage. The brake does little to hold the needle

Rick
I'm going to give you an example of how the needle brake is important on any ""COLOR"" sq baler. The knotter system trips to start tying process and hole/rut is encountered with LH tire enough to make needle frame drop a little,plungerhead stop engages BAM flywheel pin is sheared. Exception to this is a field with no holes or ruts. No ruts/holes is only encountered in Texas with no floods or extreme dry weather or presence of gophers/fire ants. .

RickB · Jun 27, 2013

You're splitting hairs. My point is when "home" is properly adjusted (New Holland only?), the knotter brake doesn't hold the needles out of the bale chamber; the clutch pawl and latch plate do. I could jump up and down on the needle bail and the needles would not enter the chamber even if the brake had zero tension. The brake does limit uncontrolled knotter shaft/needle movement, especially during the tie cycle.
None of this helps the OP and his 336.

Tx Jim · Jun 27, 2013

(quoted from post at 17:55:46 06/27/13) You're splitting hairs. My point is when "home" is properly adjusted (New Holland only?), the knotter brake doesn't hold the needles out of the bale chamber; the clutch pawl and latch plate do. .

In the home position the JD is held very similar with the clutch pawl and latch plate to NH. I'm not SPITTING HAIRS but trying to explain "REAL LIFE field conditions" irregardless of the color of the baler !!!!

If the needle brake on a NH sq baler wasn't necessary for good operation why would a NH sq baler even have a needle shaft brake??????????

RodinNS · Jun 27, 2013

Jim, I'm not sure what your point is here. Rick made a point about proper adjustment of needle home position that was given in the context of 'in addition to correct brake adjustment', not exclusive of it... It doesn't do a damn for the OP if the needle brake is fine and the needles out of adjustment.

Rod

GordoSD · Jun 27, 2013

Did you take the pickup clutch apart and look at the discs for after winter maint? If it is really tight and corroded anytime you get a load on the pickup the shear bolt is toast.

Tx Jim · Jun 28, 2013

(quoted from post at 23:17:06 06/27/13) It doesn't do a damn for the OP if the needle brake is fine and the needles out of adjustment.

Rod

Rod
My point is it's vice-verse on correct needle adjustment and needle brake loose on a JD . I've seen a lose needle brake overlooked many times on a sq baler and bolts sheared.

RickB · Jun 28, 2013

I don't know (or care ) where you got the idea that I said the knotter brake is unnecessary. I spent 15 years fixing New Holland balers in seven counties around here, I think that is sufficient "real world" experience to at least allow me to bring my opinions here.
My mistake was extrapolating my NH experience to a Deere baler. My apologies for that.
Best wished to the OP in solving his current problem.

Tx Jim · Jun 28, 2013

(quoted from post at 17:10:34 06/28/13) I don't know (or care ) where you got the idea that I said the knotter brake is unnecessary. I

Right here and I'll quote you
[/quote] :wink:

What keeps NH needles from prematurely entering the bale chamber once the tying dog is engaged/tripped? THE BRAKE which is what I was trying to state the importance of the brake.

RickB · Jun 28, 2013

Apples & Oranges. My comment is based on the knotter clutch being disengaged. But if it makes you feel better you can win. Now go read my new post on the original question.

NHbalerman · Jun 28, 2013

I have to agree with Rick B on this one,he is right about the clutch pawl and the brake isnt going to be much help until the knotters are engaged.

Tx Jim · Jun 29, 2013

I never disagreed with that FACT. But the second the knotter system trips to tie the brake is important on a NH to kep needles from entering bale case TOO QUICKLY which is what I was trying to emphasize. Maybe I didn't come across as stating that but that's what I mean't.

Tx Jim · Jun 29, 2013

(quoted from post at 19:25:27 06/28/13) Apples & Oranges. But if it makes you feel better you can win.

Rick
I don't see the "Apples to Oranges" comparison. My comments/replies have nothing to do with "winning or losing" but providing "correct information". If I make an incorrect statement I welcome for someone with correct info. to correct me. My experience on NH sq balers is limited as I worked at a JD dealership but all sq balers bale hay using the same principles.
Jim

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