24T Plunger Rail - only 2 bolts left holding....

1130Leo · Aug 4, 2011

Well, I finally figured out my plunger problems... RUST... The lower outer plunger rail has a whole 2 bolts still holding it (kind of) in position. Of course the results are alot of crud got under the rail, causing the plunger to be extremely tight. My big question now is do I:
1. Weld the rail down?

2. Drill holes thru the rail with counter sink and bolt it back down?

3. Remove the plunger, weld on new bolts to the underside and reinstll the Rail?

My biggest issue currently is time, i need to cut, and I can't cut until I have this thing working.... After 2nd cutting I can tear everything apart and make a better permanent fix.... Any thoughts??

Anonymous-0 · Aug 4, 2011

Have someone custom bale or rent a baler possibly from a local dealer.

Gene-WI · Aug 4, 2011

If it were me I would drill and bolt, easier to take back apart later if things aren"t right. Also if it were me I would be cutting now and fixing the baler while the hay is curing. Gonna take two days after it"s cut before it"s ready to bale isn"t it? Gene

Bob · Aug 4, 2011

The rails are held in by "plow bolts" passing down through the guide rail, key # 10. WHY can't you just simply replace the plow bolts... is the actual balecase framework so rusted out there's nothing left to bolt through?

Looks like there's supposed to be about 7 bolts in the lower outer rail, 5/16" X 1", part # 9H18.

<img src = "http://i56.tinypic.com/2mcumiu.jpg">

1130Leo · Aug 4, 2011

Gene, that's what I meant, but if I were to take the baler completely apart, meaning pulling out the plunger it will simply take too long. I'm leaning towards drilling and bolting.

1130Leo · Aug 4, 2011

The rails are ok, just the bolts rusted or were poped off the plunger rail bottom by the rust???

Tx Jim · Aug 4, 2011

(reply to post at 15:14:54 08/04/11)

1130Leo
First if you have room to drill with rail & PH in place you have room to tap out the rusted off bolts and repair correctly.

Second it takes about 15 minutes with the aid of an air wrench to have PH sitting on the ground or floor.

Third depending on which rail but the left lower rail is adjustable for PH wear so welding is a very poor option.

FOURTH I'm curious as to what type of tool you have access to that will countersink a sq shoulder hole for a "plow Bolt head" with the rail still in the baler???????

1130Leo · Aug 4, 2011

I'm talking about removing what's left of the original bolts, drilling thru, then making a counter sink and using flat top torx bolts to re attach the rail to the plunger frame. It does not appear to be adjustable as the rail currently appears to simply lay on top of the lower frame rail of the bale chamber, I don't see any shims of any type that may make it adjustable??? as for pulling the plunger, I definately don't see any way for me to get it out in 15 minutes, all the rusty bolts on the restrictor plates etc... so I'm not comfortable with that big of a project right now. If I can get that plunger rail secured so it won't allow the garbage to pack in under it again until I'm done with 2nd cutting that would be great. I'm only looking at baling a maximum of 1500 bales, likely much closer to 1,000 total. If I drill and counter sink, with the way the rail is right now i can mark where the holes go and pull the rail right out of the machine, i already had it out once. The 2 bolts that are left are the ones at the very front end of the rail.

Bob · Aug 4, 2011

Take a good gook at the rail... it is ALREADY drilled and countersunk for each (formerly) existing plowbolt... 7 of 'em. You must not be seeing the heads of the broken off bolts that still remaining in place, hiding the countersunk holes from your view!

Figure out where, exactly, the rusted off plowbolt heads are in the rail and knock 'em out, leaving a ready-to-use countersunk hole that's broached square at the bottom to hold the bolts from turning when you snug down the nuts.

In other words, NO drilling, welding, or re-inventing the wheel, simply get rid of the broken off bolts and replace 'em with new ones!

RodinNS · Aug 4, 2011

How ironic... I'm doing the same thing on a 327 today. The right hand bottom rail is non adjustable. The right hand side rail needs shimming. From what I see the left lower plunger bearing is adjustable for cant angle. The rest of the slop is taken up on the plunger wear pads and strips on top through shimming. All other bearings are non adjustable. There is also adjustment slots on the left side angle rail on the bottom and the center right angle on the bottom.

On this one at least everything is bolted down with plow bolts so you should be able to smack the old ones out and install new... If it's like my old ford with studs in the rail... then do what is most expedient to get going. If you think you can drill and countersink in place, go for it but I doubt it will be that easy. Welding is obviously the quick and dirty but at some point you're going to pay for that; particularly if you get the adjustments wrong...

Rod

Tx Jim · Aug 4, 2011

Leo
From your posts it appears you've made up your mind to Southern engineer aka as some sort of "rigging" the rail. You're wasting daylight start drilling and I'd suggest carbide tipped bits.

FYI rusted side resistor bolts are a walk in the park if a "blue flame torch" or air impact is available

RodinNS · Aug 4, 2011

The restrictor plates only use carriage bolts. Break em off and install new ones. Take ya 5 of the 15 minutes. Then there should be 2 bolts that hold the connecting rod to the crank... Rope through the plunger and pull it out. That part WILL be the easiest part of the job without ANY doubt.

Rod

showcrop · Aug 4, 2011

Leo, Why do you keep telling us what you have found after we have already told you what you have and the easy way to fix it? If you had pulled the plunger a week and a half ago like you were told you would have your 1500 bales done now. Sure pulling the plunger head looks like a big thing but we keep telling you it's the easy way. Why? because we have been there. Now quit yer fiddlin around and do it!!

1130Leo · Aug 5, 2011

Thanks, If there are bolts there already countersunk the tops must have been worn off, I"ll pull the rail back out and take a closer look, I thought maybe they were originally welded to the bottom somehow, I hope your picture is right, as it will make it easier to put it back together without pulling the plunger head out of it, the prospect just scares the heck out of me.

Bob · Aug 5, 2011

"I hope your picture is right"

I hope so, as well, as it is from the official DEERE parts catalog, although I see there is a serial # split and two guides are used, I ASSUME they both use plow bolts.

(Unless there's some freak thing with your's and a PO made his own guide with bolts WELDED to it!)

I used to own a 14T and later a 24T, and both had plowbolts holding the plungerhead guides in place.

Tx Jim · Aug 5, 2011

Everyone of the PH guide rails on a JD sq hay baler that I've worked on were bolted in with plow bolts

1130Leo · Aug 5, 2011

Well, I pulled the guide out, it definately does not look like they used plow bolts.... I"m going to see if I can order a new guide and how expensive it may be? It"s that or the scrap yard I think.

1130Leo · Aug 9, 2011

Well, I ended up breaking a bunch of bolts and pulled the plunger, not that I needed to, as the plunger rail I have was made by someone, the two bolts that are still attached were the problem in the first place, the rail should have holes in it and plow bolts holding it, these bolts look like possibly allen screws welded to the bottom, the "heads" are too tall, forcing the rail to be higher than it should be, causing the plunger to be too tight, now I"m kind of stuck as the rail is not right and I can"t buy a new one, looks like it"s time to send the baler to the scrap yard.

Bob · Aug 9, 2011

What's your serial #, under 26,001 or 26,001 and up?

1130Leo · Aug 9, 2011

Under, it's 15,000 something...

Bob · Aug 9, 2011

So you would apparently need the Part # AE13571E guide rail.

I emailed a guy that has some used 24T parts to see if he as a usable rail. I'll let you know if he comes up with something.

There's another fellow 120 miles or so from me that usually has 14T and 24T parts. I'm trying to rememeber his name/come up with an addy.

1130Leo · Aug 14, 2011

any news bob? I'm still trying to find a replacement plunger rail, It appears whatever was in mine, is not original and likely will never work right. It's looking like my $500 baler is now worth about $200 in scrap... And I guess I get to round bale 2nd cutting and peel round bales to feed this winter.... i hate bad luck...

Tx Jim · Aug 15, 2011

Leo
Have you tried to get in touch with a poster on this forum who go by the handle of "old"? He's from Missouri. I think he has a salvage 24T. Have you posted a want ad in the classified ads at top LH corner of this page?

1130Leo · Aug 15, 2011

I did send him a PM, but have not heard back, I was hoping he had a useable one on one of his parts machines. For that matter, if anyone has one, let me know.

Thanks,

Leo

Lew Best · Aug 15, 2011

try http://www.powellequipmentparts.com/; i found some obsolete parts for an old JD manure spreader. apparently they have sources for obsolete JD parts.

Lew

24T Plunger Rail - only 2 bolts left holding....

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