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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

pto horsepower and brush hog

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matt pasulka

09-10-2008 09:20:49

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I have an 8N tractor and I just got a King Kutter. The tractor stalls out when I try to have the brush hog turned by the pto on the tractor. I have to run the tractor at full throttle. What can I do to not have my tractor be so wimpy. Is it simply getting more gas to the engine or choking air? I also have problems starting the tractor, but after it warms up, it seems ok. Thanks in advance. Matt

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09-13-2008 16:37:21

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 Re: pto horsepower and brush hog in reply to matt pasulka, 09-10-2008 09:20:49  
None of the N's have live hydraulics or live PTO (when you push clutch in you lose power to both). That said the hydraulics should at least hold its set position for a minute without bleeding down as long you do not move the lever with the clutch in. 8N's have a position control and a draft conrtol lever to the right under the seat on the control valve block. Make sure you have the lever in the position control position (used for mowing, blading etc),. If you have it in the draft position (used for furrow plowing) it may not hold position when you push clutch.

If it still will not hold a set postion then you have 2 options:

a) fix the hydraulic problem could be simple or could be more involved.

b) Use limit chains just like a 9N or 2N has to use because they do not have position control unless outfitted with a zane thang add-on.

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09-11-2008 19:10:03

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 Re: pto horsepower and brush hog in reply to matt pasulka, 09-10-2008 09:20:49  
I have a 5' Kingkutter I use on a 1715 N/H 27 HP tractor and it works great, only use on grass not brush, I know a lot of people that use a 5' on 8n's with very good luck . Don't forget override rachet A must on 8n .

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09-11-2008 10:23:02

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 Re: pto horsepower and brush hog in reply to matt pasulka, 09-10-2008 09:20:49  
Your mower needs to set up level laterally(left to right) and the front should be lower than the back by 1/2 - 1 inch. You only have a 25 horse engine and you didn't say how big a cutter you have. A five footer is about as big as you can go. If the grass is really tall, you'll have to cut in 2nd gear or take a smaller width of cut.

Now getting to the engine performance. Make sure that the aircleaner is not restricted. That will limit power by reducing the air flow. Make sure that your tractor is tuned up, i.e. FAT, BLUISH-WHITE SPARK, the color of lightning. Make sure that the timing is set correctly and the advance is working. Make sure the spark plugs are correctly gapped. Make sure the carb mixture (the large knob on the carb) is properly set. You may have to richen it up a bit because of the heavy load you're placing on the engine.
Make sure that the air side of the radiator is clean( blow it out with compressed air or the water from a hose when the engine cold) so you don't overheat. Make sure the rad is full of 50/50 antifreeze/water mix.

Finally, make sure you have an ORC on the PTO. You need that because the inertia of the rotary cutting assembly will drive the tractor forward even when you step on the clutch. its the nature of this type of pto/drive system.

Hope this helps.
This post was edited by Jerry/MT at 10:25:42 09/11/08.

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matt pasulka

09-13-2008 12:35:46

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 Re: pto horsepower and brush hog in reply to Jerry/MT, 09-11-2008 10:23:02  
Ok I have the ORC now. but it seems that my brush hog is not set up properly. I have a problem with my hydraulics because as soon as i push the clutch in, it is as if I lowered the brush hog. My problem is that the 3 point hitch seems to be driving the front edge into the ground which puts way too much strain on the tractor causing it to die. What is the best way to set this up. Additionally, I bought a class one top link at it seems to be too big for the clevis on the tractor. If the top link cant freely pivot,is that a problem?

I am in the process of checking spark plugs, I should get that done tonight, not really sure about checking points. I appreciate your help.


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09-10-2008 17:53:45

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 Re: pto horsepower and brush hog in reply to matt pasulka, 09-10-2008 09:20:49  
try setting the bush hog completely level when its cutting. start the mower in a place where there is no grass or keep it raised up to start with. on thick stuff cut on a half of a mower wide and it will handle it ok. sounds like you need to tune your tractor up to start with. i love stp gas treatment and its time for every body to start running gas stabilizer in every thing that will be sitting later this winter without being cranked and ran. in case you don't under stand, just because you take the pto out of gear doesn't mean that you can stop. the mower has a head of steam built up and nothing to stop it from pushing your tractor where ever its headed. get the over riding clutch before you do anything else. have you checked to see if your blades are sharp. i always wondered about caring blades to the amish people and have them sharpen them. the have some forges and know how to heat and re shape the blades. an old small engine repair teacher told us the it wasn't the shapnest of the blade that cut good as much as it was the slope being right on the blade edge. also told us to never sharpen the back side of a blade. i don't, but i do grind it back down flat if it has hit some things solid enough to swell the blade edge out on the top and bottom.

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09-10-2008 17:36:19

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 Re: pto horsepower and brush hog in reply to matt pasulka, 09-10-2008 09:20:49  
Assuming your 8n runs as it should:
a) 5 foot will be the max that you will want for a bushog.

b) Will need to run somewhere around 3/4 throttle or slightly above above to maintain your needed 540 PTO RPM

c) Unfortunately 1st gear on the 8N tractor will be too fast in really heavy/thick stuff. Throttling down to reduce your ground speed only further multiplys your already marginal power problem. (Although inferior in many ways to your 8N the older the 9N/2N had a slower 1st gear that helped with bushhogging heavy stuff. I think that 2nd gear on the 9N/2N is even slightly slower than 1st gear on the 8N).

d) Good advice on getting the over-running clutch if you do not already have one. $65 is a cheap investment for the measure of safety that it will add. It will allow you to stop instead of the blade inertia jerking you forward when you clutch. Helps protect your driveline too.

e) Sharp blades help with marginal power.

f) Some of the King Cutters have a restrictive deck outlet for the material discharge exit in order to mulch things up. Enlarging this outlet can sometimes help margianl power tractors by kicking the material out from under the deck faster which in turn consumes less power. Of course the material will not be shredded up into quite as small of pieces.
This post was edited by rankrank1 at 17:40:29 09/10/08.

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09-10-2008 14:49:53

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 Re: pto horsepower and brush hog in reply to matt pasulka, 09-10-2008 09:20:49  
A brand new or properly rebuilt 8N will only make 25 pto HP on a good day with a tail wind. And it takes some of that to move the tractor. Odds are if that tractor was put on a dyno some previously unknown faults would become apparent. Pto equipment is supposed to run at 540 or 1000rpm. You can't idle around and expect full rated HP. Equipment doesn't work as well at reudced speeds either. If the govenor is out of adjustment. The engine will bog when the clutch is released. It could also be you are just releasing the clutch too fast in too high a gear with too large a pto load with too small a tractor. If you don't have an over running pto clutch on there. Get one now before that transmission driven pto kills you.

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09-10-2008 10:22:12

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 Re: pto horsepower and brush hog in reply to matt pasulka, 09-10-2008 09:20:49  
the n should have no problem turning a 5', even in relatively heavy stuff. i mow field over my head in the seat with no problem, maybe 3/4 throttle. with the pto lever off, and engine off, try turning the pto shaft by hand. it should turn as long as the blades aren't dragging on the ground.

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Lloyd in CT

09-10-2008 09:41:45

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 Re: pto horsepower and brush hog in reply to matt pasulka, 09-10-2008 09:20:49  
What size mower is the brush hog,what do you mean by the tractor stalls out,do you have an overriding pto clutch in-line ? The N should trun the mower but may bog down when it hits grass.what are you trying to mow ?

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09-10-2008 20:48:22

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 Re: pto horsepower and brush hog in reply to Lloyd in CT, 09-10-2008 09:41:45  
My TO30 played with a 5 foot brush hog. 540 pto rpm is about 2/3rds throttle. If your 8n has a tach go by that. And dont forget the ORC.


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