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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

John Deere 5320 will not start. HELP!

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ClemBert

05-05-2007 19:26:47
72.189.11.227



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I'm sorry if it was inappropriate to post this here but I've always posted implement problems here. A number of you experts have helped me out in the past so I didn't want you to miss this. This is also posted in the John Deere forum too. Please remove if this too specific as a tractor issue. Now my problem....

Background info:

I have a year 2003 John Deere model 5320 with 600 hours on the engine. It is a 3-cylinder turbo diesel.

The problem:

Today I attempted to start her up. She instantly fired up but only ran for 2 to 3 seconds then died. Numerous attempts to restart her were unsuccessful.

The details:

This tractor has faithfully started up for me the last 3+ years in the first second or two of cranking the starter. I last had her running two days ago without problem. The fuel filter was changed 5 weeks ago and I have put approximately 100 hours on her since. The fuel tank has a fresh 8 gallons of Mobile fuel station grade diesel. I added another 5 gallons today to increase the downward gravity pressure on the output line going to the fuel filter. I opened the water drain valve on the bottom of the fuel tank to verify good gravity feed of fuel and no water in system then closed the valve.

The diagnosis thus far:

The first thing I checked was for fuel at the injector pump. I loosened the bleed screw then operated the priming pump on the fuel filter a few hundred pumps. No fuel came out. The next thing I checked was fuel flow at the fuel filter. I loosened the bleed screw at the fuel filter then operated the priming pump a few hundred pumps. No fuel came out. Next, I removed the fuel tank cap to check for a cap vacuum problem and rechecked the fuel filter. Still no fuel came out. Next, I removed the fuel filter and noted that the fuel filter was 99% empty. I hand filled the fuel filter then reinstalled it then tried to bleed the air once again by operating the priming pump. Again, it appears as though the priming pump wasn't doing anything.

Possible conclusions thus far:

1. Priming pump is not drawing fuel from the tank to the filter.
2. Maybe the tank is somehow clogged where the fuel is supposed to leave the tank and go to the fuel line to the filter.
3. Maybe the rubber fuel line has a crack in it allowing air to enter the system.

Assumptions:

1. Even if the priming pump on the fuel filter was inoperable this doesn't explain why the fuel filter emptied.
2. If the rubber fuel line has a crack in it I would have expected to either see fuel dripping or "wetness" near the crack but I observed none.

Has anyone experienced this problem before or know what the next step is in solving this mystery?

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730virgil

05-06-2007 17:43:33
64.12.116.135



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 Re: John Deere 5320 will not start. HELP! in reply to ClemBert, 05-05-2007 19:26:47  
could you add an electric fuel pump somehow?



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ClemBert

05-06-2007 18:25:30
72.189.11.227



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 I think so. in reply to 730virgil, 05-06-2007 17:43:33  
From another tractor forum someone had stated that John Deere part # KV13829 is an electric pump that is part of JD Solution # 54399 and could provide an improvement over the orginal design. I think it goes for $77.



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Jossette

05-06-2007 05:35:24
216.114.223.215



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 Re: John Deere 5320 will not start. HELP! in reply to ClemBert, 05-05-2007 19:26:47  
sounds like a computer problem



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ClemBert

05-06-2007 14:00:07
72.189.11.227



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 I don't think so.... in reply to Jossette, 05-06-2007 05:35:24  
...the injection pump provides the only "suction" in the fuel system. Fuel wasn't even getting to the fuel filter even when I tried to prime it by hand. So if the filter bowl doesn't have fuel then the injection pump cannot suck the fuel.



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Jossette

05-06-2007 14:14:15
216.114.223.206



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 Re: I don't think so.... in reply to ClemBert, 05-06-2007 14:00:07  
is the check valve electronic??



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ClemBert

05-06-2007 16:26:18
72.189.11.227



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 No. in reply to Jossette, 05-06-2007 14:14:15  
It's a passive check valve. I looked it up and it is a $10 part constructed of plastic. To me its a good place for debris to collect since there isn't an apparent screen filter before it.



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Jossette

05-06-2007 17:38:05
216.114.223.196



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 Re: No. in reply to ClemBert, 05-06-2007 16:26:18  
Well??!! You used the (computer) to solve your problem. YT is a wonder place and without the computer, you would have had to wait till morning and call a machanic for $100 an hour..Computer problem solved.

Good luck and don't take the dry humor to hard fella..

have a good one



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soundguy

05-05-2007 21:27:11
12.65.168.162



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 Re: John Deere 5320 will not start. HELP! in reply to ClemBert, 05-05-2007 19:26:47  
Yuk! rubber fuel lines from the tank??.. My CNH 2002 7610s has all hard lines... oh well.. no time for a color bash here.

When my 7610s had this problem, she lost power and tried to stall out.. I idled her down and shut her off..., I was out mowing ( using a JD 1517 batwing though.. so not all green is bad! (grin) ), I pulled the tank tap out and it had a filter the size of my finger on it up inthe tank.. very fine screen.. and it was plugged up with various bits of trash from a couple years of use. A bit of air pressure from a air nozzle and i blew it all out.. rinsed in mineral spirits and reinstalled after also blowing out tank tap valve, and the hardline from the tap to the fuel filter body inlet. Reinstalled tap, reinstalled all lines but left nuts loose, turned fuel on and turned on electric charge pump and as soon as I got fuel out everywhere, i closed them and gave her a crank.. took 3 revs instead of the 2 normally, and she idled rough for the first couple seconds but then she was back in business.

Hope this helps..

Soundguy

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ClemBert

05-06-2007 13:57:21
72.189.11.227



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 John Deere green emptied my wallet of a lot of gre in reply to soundguy, 05-05-2007 21:27:11  
There doesn't appear to be a screen or filter in the bottom of the tank where fuel comes out. In fact, when I removed the fuel hose I receive a quick bath of diesel on the left side of my body meaning that fuel came out without obstruction. Unfortunately, the 5320 does not have an electric fuel pump. Rather, there is a check valve inbetween the fuel tank and the fuel filter to hold the prime. I think the check valve had some junk clogging it. I'm going to replace the check valve and hose.

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BCnT

05-05-2007 19:50:21
67.54.237.28



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 Re: John Deere 5320 will not start. HELP! in reply to ClemBert, 05-05-2007 19:26:47  
not sure how many hours on your tractor but i've seen rubber lines crack internally and create a ''check valve'' with a flap of rubber liner hanging down.
also take line loose at filters and blow air back into tank...dont forget to loosen cap on tank.
this should find problem if its not pumps.



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ClemBert

05-06-2007 13:52:26
72.189.11.227



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 I have 600 hours on the engine. in reply to BCnT, 05-05-2007 19:50:21  
Oddly, there is a real check valve halfway between the fuel tank the the fuel filter. I discover that this morning while removing the six feet of fuel hose. I'm going to replace the fuel hose and check valve to play it safe.

This is a gravity fed system with the injection pump providing the only "suction" in the system. There isn't an electric fuel pump but maybe the engineer should have put one in instead of a check valve.

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720LYLE

05-05-2007 19:47:19
206.145.179.27



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 Re: John Deere 5320 will not start. HELP! in reply to ClemBert, 05-05-2007 19:26:47  
We had a sinilar problem with a 5220. Discovered that when they drilled the holes for the fuel lines in the plastic tank they left fillings there that plugged the line. Blew air back into tank and then bled the lines. Owners manual says the tank must be full for priming pump to work. Even the pump had to be disassembled to remove the shavings. Not a smart move by factory. Post your solution.

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ClemBert

05-06-2007 13:48:24
72.189.11.227



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 Found this posting in reply to 720LYLE, 05-05-2007 19:47:19  
Hmmmm, while I never experience loss of power the attached link may hold some clues.

The 5320 Operation and Test Manual doesn't show a fuel check valve in the fuel system diagram nor does it mention one in the theory of operation. However, I did locate a fuel check valve this morning. It is located halfway between the fuel tank and the fuel filter. I assume it is there to help hold the fuel prime by acting as a one way gate. I completely removed the six feet of fuel line with check valve today. I'm going to replace the entire piece. A closer inspection of the check valve appears to reveal some of those "filling" or "shavings" on the fuel tank side of the valve. Even though it appear as though it wasn't clogged it is really hard to say for sure as by the time I disconnected the hose, fuel rushing out could have unclogged it. I say this because I blew into it and air seem to come out the other side. But none-the-less there were shavings in the valve and what appeared to be a small piece of straw. This may have been enough to cause the problem as this fuel system relies a bit on gravity and the fuel tank sits lower than the fuel filter. Not the most cleaver design if you ask me. The injection pump has the burden of providing the suction through the filter and to the tank. Oddly, engineers at JD decided in their infinite wisdom to mount a low fuel tank on the left side then run six feet of hose to the right side where the fuel filter sits up higher then run another six feet of fuel tube back to the left side to the injection pump. No wonder the fuel tank needs to be full to prime the filter. Seems like an electric fuel pump would have made life easier.

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burnetma

05-06-2007 21:53:07
24.39.218.58



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 Re: Found this posting in reply to ClemBert, 05-06-2007 13:48:24  
I see you found my earlier post. That fuel system leaves a lot to be desired of in tha factory condition. I had an electric fuel pump added and that made a huge difference. I also added a fuel bowl heater in the place of the hand prime pump. No more winter gell issues.

Still the system is a pain in the neck, but reliability is now OK. The fuel filter design makes the filters tough to change and the priming sequence is not exactly user friendly for a single person.

Now my 1997 Ford Powerstroke fuel system is trouble free with 240k miles. Easy filter changes and self-priming. I expected such simplicity out of a high dollar tractor. I was sure to call JD to tell them what I thought when it happened.

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ClemBert

05-07-2007 10:00:43
72.189.11.227



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 You post in reply to burnetma, 05-06-2007 21:53:07  
I'm glad I came across your post on the other forum. Seemed to make sense what the problem is. I'm going to clean the priming pump in addition to changing out the check valve and fuel hose. In 600 hours I haven't had a problem so I'll wait when it comes to serious consideration of a fuel pump. Your bigger tractor probably meant the gravity feed from the tank was a little worse than mine.

I agree with you on the priming issue. How the heck do they expect us to operate the hand pump and watch what is going on with the injection pump when they are on opposite sides of the tractor. Being an engineer myself I'm disappointed with what JD engineers decided to do with this design.

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