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OK...just so I don't sound like a complete novice when I am calling these people about their machines, could you educate me. Why do they call it a grain "table"? Others say grain head. I think corn heads are pretty easy but people seem pretty excited about "black" ones and not so excited about others. I have also seen bean heads. How many different heads does one need?

I'm not really calling on any gas machines, just the diesels and I am trying to stay with the hydros. The only other thing that has me scratching my head is the asking prices between say an L2 and an L3. Former being quite cheap and the L3 being 6-8 times the price. Unfortunately, I have a very limited budget for this first combine because of all the other equipment I had to buy to go from an all hay operation to putting in grain. Anyhow, can you help me out with the different heads?

I think "grain table" was a carry-over from the early combines that had canvas to convey the straw into the machine. When the design was changed to augers, some people began to call them headers.

That was actually the main question, thanks! Do you need a separate bean head or does the grain head serve dual duty?

You can do beans with a rigid grain head, but doesn't work very well. Field has to be very smooth and level. It looks to me like the grain head isn't designed to go right down to the ground. I have an F3 with 13'. When you get down on the ground the cutter bar angle seems wrong, like the guards are pointed down too much. you wind up having to cut too high and leave some bottom beans. I did 45 acres last year with the straight head, but the fields were all away from home so I didn't have to look at the beans I left. had 70 acres this year, all close to home. Did about 10 acres and couldn't stand to see the beans I was leaving. Hired a neighbor with a 7720. finally got a flex head after he was done Had 10 acres of late beans , did them with the flex head. Much nicer. Good luck on your hunt.

Around here we swath the grain and harvest with a windrow pickup mounted on the grain head. For soybeans we take off the pickup unit and mount a floating cutterbar (FCB) on the front of the grain head. The grain head is called a dummy head cuz it doesn"t have the guards/sickle on the cutterbar. The grain head can be equipped with a robot height control or be manually operated. A flex head is a different style head for soybeans.....more expensive, cuts closer.

Dave, A header with a floating cutterbar attachment or what is called a flex head, excuse me I'm pretty "Green" here can be used for both soybeans and small grain, i.e. oats,wheat etc. The floating cutterbar or the cutterbar on a flex head will need to be bolted up to make it essentially rigid for small grain. My deere flex head has holes thru them to install bolts to hold them up. It's a lot easier on the sickle,guards etc. when harvesting small grain.

Dave, If you are planning on planting oats, wheat, and soybeans, then I would look for what they call a flex-head or bean head. If you get a flex head, you can make it rigid for combining wheat and oats. On a JD you bolt the flex-head rigid to do small grain. Someone might know if you can do the same on a Gleaner flex head. I would not get a grain head to do soybeans as it is very hard to keep it low to pick up the beans and not run it into the ground. I have a 213 rigid head for my JD 4420, but I don't plant soybeans. If you are never going to plant soybeans, then look for a grain head. Also, if possible have someone who is familar with the combine you want to buy to look it over. Not easy to start farming if you never did it before. Lots of luck. Al

Corn head. Orange is older, has lots of chain. Black is newer, has shaft and gears. Both work, chain needs more attention feel like you are always adjusting it, shaft and gear is easy until eventually anything wears out and then you have a bigger bill.... You know, spend a little time and few dollars every week, or spend a pile of money and couple days every 5 years, comes out the same in the end either way.

Dummy or pickup head - has belts with fingers to pick up wind rowed grain crops. Most are grain tables with the reel,and other junk removed, the belt pickup bolted on.

Grain table, ridged head - cuts oats, wheat, barley, rye as it stands in the field. You can cut soybeans, but you will not be able to follow the ground as close, you will miss soybeans not so good.

Bean head, flex head - old style is a conversion that hangs the sickle bar on some leaf springs and a bit of sheet metal ramp and some skid plates so the sickle will float and flex over the ground. (Love and Carter made these conversions.) The newer style is more built in, lighter, more flexy. Newer is better but older works fine. Most can be locked into a ridged mode so you can use them like a straight grain head, no flex.

In general an older head works fine, a newer head has more engineering and features and costs more.

With $12 beans I would not want to harvest them with a straight grain head/table. Losses turn into big dollars. Works on smooth flat ground on a 12-13 foot head, but bigger head, rolling ground you lose a lot.....

Straightt grain combing (standing wheat/oats) needs a fixed, not flexing header to work best, so need to lock the flex part of a bean head into ridged mode.

Paul

OK...I get it, thanks. Starting to feel like I know what I am talking about. I need a good older machine with a corn head to start...preferably black but beggars can't be choosers. Just that I have a lot of older equipment already that needs almost weekly attention. It would be nice to not have to be tweaking the head constantly. Besides, by harvest time I am half done-in and ready for winter as it is. Once I get the above I can shop for a flex head that locks into rigid and that should cover all the bases. Just out of curiosity, ever harvest sunflowers? What works on that?

I am thinking you are correct. Sounds like if they are saying "grain table" they are talking rigid and not flex too. That is useful info.

That's the main reason that I am shying away from the auctions a bit. Never seem to give you enough time to get someone out to check it out. When I find a machine I am serious about I am going to try to get it checked out by a dealer. Of course I can use what I know and make a judgement myself but even with tractors, which I know a fair amount about, I still miss things and end up fixing stuff. I have a little experience but not with grain crops. Been "interesting" so far...in a good way!

I'm thinking that is what I want and I can take my time looking for one after I get the combine 'cause all I am planning on having this year is corn and then, of course, the usual hay fields to keep my regular customers happy. I have a lot of people who would like to buy corn. Hope I can eventually get it in. The only way that it is happening right now is if I put the Evinrude on the back of the planter. Hmmm...naw, that would never work.

That makes me curious because I know it is done, but don't you have more loss from cutting it in a swath and then picking it up? I know with hay the fewer times I move it the better...leaf shatter. Just wondering.

Thanks, I appreciate it. I really think I want the flex head as it gives me more versatility. I do have a small market for soybeans if I roast them. The rest would likely go to the elevator. Doesn't mean I won't try a small field and see how it goes. I like to try different things. I started on this grain adventure thinking it would get me away from extreme hard work and high heat levels of hay production. So far I am finding that my grain equipment, like my corn planter for example, is a lot bigger and harder to work on so the laugh is on me. Still hard work! Now I am wondering if I am going to freeze me a** off at harvest instead of cooking in the July sun. Just relax and enjoy the journey I guess.

Dave, sounds like us last year, got the corn in pretty decent then fought the weather for a month trying to plant beans. A rule of thumb when planting beans, if the planter drive wheels plug with mud and start sliding it's too wet. LOL

Good summary, but didn't mention that JD built a row crop bean head; likely because they are fairly rare and for cost reasons he wouldn't be in that market. But since you pretty much covered all the viable alternates, I'm just "throwing it out" as a possibility since he could get a head adapter but it would require planting the beans in 30 or 36 inch rows.

My Cyclo 800 planter has the ability to put beans in 30" rows. I have the drum for it. Too worried about getting corn in to even think about beans of the future but was speculating over the winter would I be better to use the planter at 30" or drill them in closer. I am aware that beans are being planted closer these days but one of the Ag schools, probably MSU because the dottir was in the program there, put out an article about some disease of soy that was worsened by the denser population. Don't ask me what or where...I couldn't tell you what I had for dinner last night let alone what was killing soybeans last year.

Grain is swathed to give the weeds and grain a chance to dry a bit. Straight cutting with our weather doesn"t work very well most years. Re a flex head vs a FCB.....the flex is way more expensive. Used Gleaner FCB might go 500-1000, flex would be newer and run several thousand, plus needs the correct header height control system. That can be another grand to update with used module and harness on an older combine.

I hear there is an official farm memo floating about that states that the phrase "too wet" is now obsolete. We now use a code...in the future we will simply say "2014" and everyone will know what we mean. I walked out and looked at my proposed corn field yesterday. I'm not going to tell you what I saw. As I was walking back I was wondering that, IF I were to decide on aquaculture instead of grain crops, is there a harvester that collects the fish? Cranberries is another possibility. They have some nifty machines for those!

White mold.

It is more common in wetter soil area.

Like me.

Some experts say you just select beans resistant to it and don't worry about it, others say leave some air space in the wider rows and it will be fine.

I like 15 inch rows, best of both worlds. Last year I went back to the planter at 30 inch rows, but that was a wet fields issue, the planter was easier to deal with than my 15 inch bean bar.

Paul

Never been around sunflowers.

You attach pans onto a ridged head (or flex?) which are sort of mini corn snouts, the sickle will cut the heads off, the pans will catch the head so it doesn't fall off.

I believe that JD row crop header someone mentioned was real popular for flowers? It was a really neat idea when it came out, and just then soybean rows got narrower and drilled and all over the place so that type of header couldn't keep up, it is locked into a row size....

Paul

Paul

That's the stuff! I remember now.

There's a guy around here grows a lot of sunflowers. Pretty dramatic sight for a couple days of the year. If I ever decide to try some I will have to look him up and buy a couple bags...see can I get a peek at his harvester.

OK...I understand that. wasn't that one of the differences in between the F2 and F3? Wasn't the F3 already set up with some type of electronic height control...or am I getting it all bollocksed up in my head? Or was it just the green stripes?

On that bean thing, just because this stuff really interests me, you swath it like hay so the air/sun can remove some of the moisture. I am presuming that any pod shatter losses are offset by reduced drying costs? Overall I am assuming that you are trying to get a dryer bean off the field to save cost I guess is what I am asking.

"On that bean thing, just because this stuff really interests me, you swath it like hay so the air/sun can remove some of the moisture. I am presuming that any pod shatter losses are offset by reduced drying costs? Overall I am assuming that you are trying to get a dryer bean off the field to save cost I guess is what I am asking."


I believe you are getting confused
swath oats, wheat and other small grains to let the weeds dry out then use a pickup head to harvest
soybeans are direct cut with a flex head shaving the ground to get every last high dollar bean out of the field. swathing would cause too much loss.

good luck
Ron

Gee Ron...I read back thru the post and you are dead on. I came completely off the tracks and misunderstood what he was saying. I couldn't figure it out because when the tenant harvests beans he does it with a flex head as stated. There are still a lot of beans on the ground due to pod shatter and spillage. I could not for the life of me figure out how one would swath the things and not lose a ton of them. Appreciate you getting me back on the rails!