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Combines & Harvesters Discussion Forum

1660 broke drive axle

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j hikemper

10-30-2012 08:37:06
50.102.81.63



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brother pulled his 1660 case ih into 40 acre field of beans at 6pm ,,half the field was in the semi by 9 pm ,,, when "Up jumped the phuk'n devil",, clean break under the cab ,tire rested under unloading auger with the bin half full ..took 3 jacks to raise it , so we could unload ,,,no other damage ,,, brother reported that for a round or 2 the wheel under him felt a little odd and he was sensing a grinding feeling ,,. thats the only clue he got ,.. 3 miles west of heer ,, another 1660 sits in a field with a cab drive wheel gone to hel,,, salvageyard has sold a bunch this year ,,, and has us all wondering what is up with these dam broken axles on these case/ihc combines ????

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RPM1941

10-31-2012 17:16:33
173.23.76.185



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to j hikemper, 10-30-2012 08:37:06  
The axle you are talking about is actually called a final drive. The main axle tube is what it bolts to, both were prone to fail in severe use in rough ground and combines with grain in tank extensions. The final drive was actually first used on 915 all series. The outer Timken cone & cup is the same part number along with the outer seal for 915, 1460/80, 1660/1680. The differences are 80 have wider bull gear & pinion. Last 60/80 had a ratio change in gears (or tooth count).

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Case Nutty 1660

10-31-2012 11:36:32
75.127.24.27



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to j hikemper, 10-30-2012 08:37:06  

this is one of the ones I seen this year it is a 1680, I do think the duals and bin extension along with "hard use' was a big factor in this one it basicly totaled the machine feeder house took the major hit but it had many more damages not a first seen cnt

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Bob Bancroft

11-01-2012 09:57:43
97.73.64.150



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to Case Nutty 1660, 10-31-2012 11:36:32  
As nice as duals are for flotation, I wonder if this final drive-type-axle design can ever really handle the load? The final drive on an AC 185 tractor, just like the transmission, worked well in smaller tractors for years, but wouldn't handle long term dual use. The stress on that little short shaft has got to be immense. A worn tire, run softer I think would be a good idea on the dual wheel.



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Case Nutty 1660

11-01-2012 17:17:16
75.127.24.27



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to Bob Bancroft, 11-01-2012 09:57:43  
I agree completely, and these are set to straddle rows so they seem wider than tractor duals in my area making stress even greater



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sideconsole4020guy

10-30-2012 20:40:05
216.249.194.192



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to j hikemper, 10-30-2012 08:37:06  
http://dickswelding.com/ I dont know how to do the link thing but go to this site to see the biggest grain tank extension, At the shop we call it the big _ick topper, a customer has one on his combine and it holds right at 35,000 lbs of corn add that and the 12 row chopping Deere corn head that weighs 12,000 or 13,000 and the 37,000 lb JD 9870sts and I am surprised we havent seen final drive failures, And i should add that another customer rented that combine and put a 19,000 lb Fantini 12 chopping and folding cornhead on it and drive the mess down the road at full tilt
This post was edited by sideconsole4020guy at 20:42:29 10/30/12.

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ihman73

10-30-2012 19:42:02
67.43.125.113



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to j hikemper, 10-30-2012 08:37:06  
I have seen failed final drives on all colors of combines. Most are due to abuse either from overloading or rough operation. They did make upgrades but on the whole they have held up fairly well. There are people who bad mouth specific brands but if you put a 150 bu. extension and fly around like a bat out of hell it doesn't matter what color it is.



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j hikemper

10-30-2012 18:29:18
50.102.81.63



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to j hikemper, 10-30-2012 08:37:06  
BROTHER autopsied this mess ,, it appears that the nut came loose inside the outboard gearbox ,, the axle did inded breAK ,,BUT WE BELIEVE FROM THE grinding and walking in and out ..does this seem like a common problem ?. in my above post i told of a case 1660 serveral miles to west ,,, we went to farm bureau mtg tonite and spoke with the driver /owner ,,,THIS COMBINE WAS going full bore down the road headerless , when HIT BY A GAL GOING 60 plus mph,, who disregarded the escort truck THAT WAS PULLING THE HEADER ,topped the hill and hit the combine wheel ,,the combine traveled 150 ft into a harvested field ..the gal was very shook up .,

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Jon Hagen

10-30-2012 18:53:03
69.26.17.61



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to j hikemper, 10-30-2012 18:29:18  
Having the nut unscrew is not a common problem, but does happen. Usually related to outer wheel bearing failure. If the outboard bearing fails and allows the shaft to move in far enough so the nut contacts the dust cap, this will shear the cotter pin and allow the nut to unscrew.

If you decide to rebuild the final drive instead of replacing it, pay close attention to the case where the axles seal fits. Running for a while with a failed outer bearing will allow the axle shaft to destroy this area of the case. Also inspect the spur gears for chipped teeth if run with a fully failed bearing.

If you go with a used final drive, try to find one with the much stronger "smooth back" axle, as shown in the link I provided in my other post.

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Jon Hagen

10-30-2012 18:11:14
69.26.17.61



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to j hikemper, 10-30-2012 08:37:06  
Have been down that road a couple times with our even heavier 1480 combines. The final drive cases are weak so they spread and do not hold proper preload on the wheel bearings, shortning their life.
also the early axle designs were weak, the 2 piese axle / flange assys with 1 or 3 retaining bolts were especially bad while the latter 1 piece (rough back) axlees were better, but still cracked off at the flange.

the replacement (smooth back) axle shafts have more metal inthe transition from axle to flange and are much stronger. I have never had a smooth back axle fail.

In a discussion of this problem on another site, I addressed this problem and posted pictures that explain the problem and the fix.

http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=336418&posts=6#M2634040

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Jon Hagen

10-30-2012 18:32:20
69.26.17.61



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to Jon Hagen, 10-30-2012 18:11:14  
The really first big upgrade of the AF final drives happened with the 21XX series, when they became very strong.

Earlier, they did small upgrades, but did not reall get it fixed untill the much heavier drives on the 21 series. Putting 21 series final drives on a 14 or 16 series combine is a popular upgrade if you can find them.

The drive cases were strengthened several times with added ribbing, plus the sheetmetal case covers were replaced with much more rigid cast iron covers which helped the case spreading problem and extended wheel bearing life. The shaft breakage problem was pretty well eliminated with the stronger "smooth back" axle shafts.

One tip, ANY axle seal leakage means a 99% chance that the outer wheel bearing is failing and needs to be fixed RIGHT NOW. Continuing on can turn a $300 bearing replacement into a $2500 destroyed final drive disaster.

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IaGary

10-30-2012 15:33:17
108.160.228.103



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to j hikemper, 10-30-2012 08:37:06  
When I worked in the weld shop we worked on about as many JD final drives as we did IH.

You just never know???

Gary



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Dick2

10-30-2012 10:39:01
174.19.205.113



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to j hikemper, 10-30-2012 08:37:06  
Knew a retired engineer from IH; they had that problem with axles breaking on the prototype combines. But in typical IH fashion, they never did anything about fixing the problem.

A retired JD engineer moved just up the street from us. He was mad at Deere for not fixing problems that they've had from Day 1 with their engines and injector pumps. They called him back from retirement twice to work on the engine problems - and then wouldn't use his suggestions, so he told them to get lost.

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Case Nutty 1660

10-30-2012 10:13:44
75.127.24.27



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to j hikemper, 10-30-2012 08:37:06  
all I have seen break have bin extensions or whooper hooper ect and I see them spining them on turns with a full or near full bin and big corn hdrs, I do not think any thing can take that forever, and to be fair I have seen a equall amount of JD machines in the same boat my two cents cnt



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Eric in IL

10-30-2012 13:34:51
208.124.66.242



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to Case Nutty 1660, 10-30-2012 10:13:44  
I am guilty of running a bin extension. It adds approximately 1200 lbs of extra grain weight.

A reasonable guess would be an additional 500 lbs to each final drive.

If that 500 lbs is enough weight to cause damage, maybe I should ask potential riders (factory installed buddy seat) how much they weigh first.

I guess the point I am trying to make is, there must have been "zero overkill" designed into the final drives. That just seems chinese to me.

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Case Nutty 1660

10-30-2012 14:54:17
75.127.24.27



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to Eric in IL, 10-30-2012 13:34:51  
Eric the extension I am talking about added 100 plus bushels to the total capacity in wheat that would be 6000lbs or so just saying they need to be treated with respect with that kind of additional load, like I said the guy's I know would come up to the corner with a loaded bin 8 row heads and step on the brake and spin them around to me that is a little harsh, but I am told the newer models do have a stronger axle/planitary system cnt

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Bob Bancroft

10-30-2012 15:08:43
97.73.64.147



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to Case Nutty 1660, 10-30-2012 14:54:17  
My bin extension adds about 70 bu.- as you say- potentially a substantial amount of weight. There was discussion on here earlier about brakes. They seem to be ignored on hydro. machines around here. When I got this 1660 they were worthless. The first winter I fixed them. I discovered much to my surprise they would spin this 4WD machine around. But not with much weight in the bin. Not any different than it was with our old 2WD Gleaners. I don't know how these guys you mention are even doing what you describe!

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Case Nutty 1660

10-30-2012 18:23:53
75.127.24.27



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to Bob Bancroft, 10-30-2012 15:08:43  
guess I am full of cr&pp just saying what I seen no problem if you don't belive me



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rusty6

10-31-2012 08:05:56
142.165.85.93



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to Case Nutty 1660, 10-30-2012 18:23:53  
I have never known of a front axle breaking on these combines. Heard of quite a few rear axles though. Mostly on the bigger 80 series combines. My guess is the hopper extensions add too much weight. Combined with the rougher fields we have now due to zero till and wide spacing on the air drills it is more than the original design can handle. My 1660 has had no problems that way other than a split rim on the front driver's side. No tank extensions and no brake turns.

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Bob Bancroft

10-30-2012 18:53:37
97.73.64.148



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to Case Nutty 1660, 10-30-2012 18:23:53  
I didn't say I didn't believe you. If I had meant that, I would have said it. I just don't know how it's possible. But then some people must be willing to do things to a machine I can't imagine.



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Case Nutty 1660

10-30-2012 19:02:09
75.127.24.27



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to Bob Bancroft, 10-30-2012 18:53:37  
sorry,, have to agree with what people do really steams me to see some thing abused badly used yes abused no cnt



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j hikemper

10-30-2012 13:25:20
50.102.81.63



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to Case Nutty 1660, 10-30-2012 10:13:44  
yes ,,it has flip up/outbin ext,, no duals ,, and a 24 ft head ,,, all running on a 2 and 1/2 axles,,i can agree with many here that we are overloading these ladies ,,, but the girls take the capacity so well , until this scht happens ..brother piked up another axle headfrom salvage yard $450 . and stuck it on while i raked hay ..temps are low 40s,son gave way to clouds ,got a smittle of sleet rainb ,and crazy wind from every direction

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flying belgian

10-30-2012 09:26:43
98.132.233.146



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to j hikemper, 10-30-2012 08:37:06  
I just started looking for a good used 1640-1660. Now you are scaring me.



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JMS./MN

10-30-2012 14:44:05
209.237.125.241



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to flying belgian, 10-30-2012 09:26:43  
Good and used is an oxymoron with them. Granted, my ex (no longer farming) neighbor could crack an anvil with a feather, but when he picked up the header (6rn), nothing happened. Drive axle was too busy curving up into the bottom of the combine, under, then through, all the augers that carry threshed corn back to the separator. Dealer wouldn't rent him another to finish- he had to rebuild all that on his own.

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Bob Bancroft

10-30-2012 09:55:33
97.73.64.152



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to flying belgian, 10-30-2012 09:26:43  
When I got a 1660 a fellow told me that with the Cummins engine, inclined auger in the bin, etc. it was late enough the final drives should be OK. So is it assumed a 1660 with IH engine had lighter final drives? I haven't done any research. So far, so good.



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Eric in IL

10-30-2012 10:10:57
208.124.66.242



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to Bob Bancroft, 10-30-2012 09:55:33  
I am also running a 1660, cummins, inclined auger, etc.

Developed a slow oil leak last season on final drive under cab. Enough of a leak that it ran down inside of tire if sitting in one spot for a month or so.

Pulled tire and final this season before harvest. Outer bearing/race were shot.

Bearing and race was $235.

The other final is not leaking but is getting pulled this winter for a look-see.

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Bob Bancroft

10-30-2012 10:21:06
97.73.64.152



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 Re: 1660 broke drive axle in reply to Eric in IL, 10-30-2012 10:10:57  
Interesting. Haven't had any issue with the axle shaft.(I've had this 3 years now). But the input shaft on the left was leaking a little. When I got into it I found the three capscrews holding the bearing housing in were loose. But they weren't loose! All I could figure was the bolts came loose, and the shims rusted. I started taking out shims to get the bearings tight, then started measuring the shims, and cleaning the rust off them. I was amazed how many thousandths the rust made up. I ended up with all the original shims back in and the bearings just right!

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