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Garden Tractors Discussion Forum

Previous ''Peerless 206-545C Transaxle - MAJOR Problem!!''

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Technician Gene

09-26-2007 14:09:40




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This is in response to the post by Jerry Beeney (10-04-2004)and the follow-up posts by Nathan in OK (10-05-2004), Jerry U (10-05-2004), leeab (03-12-2006), lucas boy (10-04-2004), PA parts (10-04-2004), Jamesdub (06-20-2007) and James305 (09-11-2007).
I have worked on Tecumseh equipment since 1964. I have had my own shop since 1987, and have been a Tecumseh Master Technician since 1994. Peerless introduced the MST 206-545C transaxle in November of 1998. In November and December of 1998, they produced almost 24,000 206-545s. Their total production of 206-545s from November, 1998, through December, 2006, is over 1,140,000. Yes, this is just 206-545Cs! Any warranty issue with this transaxle - or any transaxle, for that matter - is properly handled within the warranty timeframe and guidelines. They even bend over backwards and honor "questionable" warranties within the warranty period just to keep customers happy. AFTER the warranty expires, usually for a few months and especially in the case of a known low-hour unit, they will handle a warranty as a "policy adjustment" even though it isn't technically warranty - again, to keep the customer happy. So you will have to forgive Tecumseh if they don't agree to doing a "warranty" repair three years AFTER the warranty has expired.
Keep in mind, also, that most if not all of the 206-545s went to American Yard Products (AYP) and that many of these AYP units were marketed under the Sears/Craftsman label. I used to be a Sears Contractor and Sears handles ALL warranties on anything that has a Sears nameplate. When Tecumseh sells an engine or transaxle to Murray, MTD, Snapper or other name-brand manufacturer, the agreement is for Tecumseh to provide warranty service if and when it is needed. When AYP buys a Tecumseh engine or transaxle to put on a unit with the Sears/Craftsman nameplate, SEARS AGREES TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL WARRANTY ISSUES. Any complaint on anything with Sears' name on it should not be held against Tecumseh.
So...even though NO ONE likes to be the one who has a problem with a piece of equipment, you have to admit that with over a million-plus 206-545 transaxles manufactured in the last almost-10-years, a handful of 3-5 year-old units "self-destructing" is a micro-microscopic percentage and cannot be used to bad-mouth the manufacturer. And let's be honest - have you NEVER driven over a curb or done ANYTHING else that, at some point, might have weakened the part that broke??
Now, for particulars --
Jerry: the standard MST 206-545C IS still available - Tecumseh P/N 794691; MSRP $336.12, FOB Wisconsin. See your local Authorized Tecumseh Service Center.
Jamesdub: Yes, there is a complete 206-545 being sold on eBay. It is mine and until 10-02-2007, it is Item #320162799461. After that date, you will need to use eBay's Advanced Search to enter that Item Number and view the particulars. Note that I have upgraded this 206-545 with the heavy-duty needle-bearing option on the axle-shaft ends for better durability and longevity. I can sell one of these direct for my Opening Bid plus shipping.
Also, Jamesdub, the "recall" was an internal recall - Tecumseh found a problem and the problems were fixed before the units reached the public.
I hope this helps.

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Technician General ULGE

09-29-2007 09:34:35




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 Re: Previous ''Peerless 206-545C Transaxle - MAJOR Problem!! in reply to Technician General ULGE, 09-26-2007 14:09:40  
I just finished overhauling the transaxle for the eBay contact who alerted me to this ytmag ''206-545C MAJOR Problem'' website forum. His problem was a hole in the bottom of the transaxle case just below the left side of the differential with gear pieces exposed and falling out, similar to the one Jerry Beeney originally Posted. Like Jerry, he only uses his mower for residential-yard mowing. What I found with my customer's transaxle was two bent axle shafts -- a dial indicator on the outside ends of the axles, just inside the snap-ring grooves, showed 0.025'' runout on the left axle and 0.012'' on the right axle.

What this indicates is that, even though no one intentionally abuses or damages their mower, at some point they accidentally drove off a curb or allowed the mower to fall off a too-high pickup tailgate or maybe even backed into a tree trunk -- something to apply enough force to bend the axle. Also, not to offend those well-endowed mower operators, but an overweight individual is going to apply more load to a transaxle than a ''98-pound weakling.'' Continuing to run with a bent axle places a load on the internal components they weren't designed to handle, eventually resulting in failure.

So...before one critizes either Tecumseh OR Sears, do some honest soul searching and try to determine what REALLY caused the problem. I am sure there will be some cases where the transaxle itself may be flawed, but if a detailed analysis were undertaken, in most cases the problem will NOT be the transaxle. It seems like more of a problem with the 206-545s because there are so many more of these units out there compared to other transaxles.

Sincerely,
Rodney

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Technician General ULGE

09-28-2007 17:51:12




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 Re: Previous ''Peerless 206-545C Transaxle - MAJOR Problem!! in reply to Technician General ULGE, 09-26-2007 14:09:40  
Thank you for your comments, Bills1450. Please let me correct your misconceptions, though:

1. No, this isn't ''really just a very long ad (for my) selling a transaxle on eBay.'' My mentioning my eBay Ad was just an answer to Jamesdub's last Reply to the original Post in which he mentioned seeing ''complete units being sold on eBay.'' Note that I also offered to sell these transaxles direct. I have also seen complete used units offered on eBay but mine is one of the few new units offered, and the only new unit with the axle-bearing upgrade. Which leads into your next misconception...

2. My ''true impression'' of Tecumseh Peerless transaxles is NOT that they are made ''CHEAP AS POSSIBLE.'' Quite the contrary, I've had the opportunity to tour the Peerless Gear plant in Indiana and have witnessed firsthand the quality that goes into them. Note that I stated the heavy-duty axle needle bearings are an OPTION. Your comment that you are one ''of us who work on these'' tells me you probably either own the shop you work in or are one of its regular mechanics. Doesn't your shop have a pick-up-&-delivery truck? Is it a compact S-10 or Courier, or is it a full-size RAM, Chevy, F-150 or equivalent? Even if it's a full-size, I would be willing to bet that it has ''options'' and is not a stripped-down, bare-bones model. The same with Peerless transaxles -- the ones I offer have ''options'' to make them perform their intended jobs better. That isn't to say the ''stripped-down'' transaxle is inadequate for the job -- it just isn't the equivalent of the one with options. Would you expect Peerless to voluntarily add heavy-duty options to transaxles on the AYP/Sears order line just so they don't have future complaints? When you do a service job on a transaxle, do YOU upgrade and install options at your expense just so the customer won't have to return to your shop for another 20 years? Of course not!

3. '''CHEAP' as possible''? Again, having viewed what goes into Peerless transaxles -- the engineering as well as the manufacturing -- AND also being one ''of us who work on these'', not only ''after the warranties are done'' but before installation and during the warranty periods as well, I would substitute ''inexpensive'' for ''cheap.'' Like you said, Peerless builds them to Sears' specs and if Sears specifies an inexpensive, light-duty transaxle, the customer has no beef with Tecumseh -- Sears ''should ultimately be held responsible.''

After studying your Reply, I get the impression you work for Sears and are trying to defend them. If so, that's understandable, but it doesn't change the fact that if Sears doesn't want post-warranty complaints, they need to specify ''optioned'' transaxles to start with.

Sincerely,
Rodney

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Paul Petery

10-07-2007 20:25:29




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 Re: Previous ''Peerless 206-545C Transaxle - MAJOR Problem!! in reply to Technician General ULGE, 09-28-2007 17:51:12  
Can you give me more info on the extra axel bearing you added- is there a tecumseh part #- I am rebuiling my own axel adn I would like to install them (a part # is much easier than measureing the slots for them- 206-545c case).

Thanks, Paul.



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Technician General ULGE

10-10-2007 07:47:00




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 Re: Previous ''Peerless 206-545C Transaxle - MAJOR Problem!! in reply to Paul Petery, 10-07-2007 20:25:29  
Paul, you will need two each of Tecumseh P/N 780140 Needle Bearings and 786084 Bearing Sleeves. Use a 3/4" non-impact socket, 3/8"-Drive, to press the bearings into the sleeves. Press from the LETTERED SIDE of the bearing ONLY. I "press" mine into the sleeves by using my Wilton bench vise. Make sure your socket, vise and surrounding work area is CLEAN so you don't get any debris into the bearings. I always add extra grease (NON-synthetic; petroleum-base) to the needles prior to installing the bearings. Also make sure all original Peerless RTV is removed from the axle ends prior to bearing installation. It wouldn't hurt to also install some gear oil to the lower case bearing cavity after installing the bearings, for future lubrication. Sincerely,
Rodney

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Bills1450

09-29-2007 18:26:39




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 Re: Previous ''Peerless 206-545C Transaxle - MAJOR Problem!! in reply to Technician General ULGE, 09-28-2007 17:51:12  
I do work on these for a living and no, not for Sears either. While I do agree that it is end user ( Sears or any other store brand) that specs. these and yes, they should get some blame. Also, end consumer needs to shop more wisely and not expect their new $1,000 mower to preform for 30+yrs like their old Cub, JD, Horse,etc. did- as the old saying goes "you get what you pay for". I also feel though that companies need to stop making things just well enough to outlast warranties as seems to be the case anymore- whether it be Tecumseh or any other company. Kohler, Briggs, MTD, AYP and most everyone else is also doing it these on at least some of their offerings. I do stand by "Cheap" as a viable description - it would be a very small cost to install the "optional" bearings at the factory. But I do understand it would ultimately translate in millions lost in terms of total # units produced. I also understand Sears doesn't care because they would much rather sell you a new mower every 5yrs rather than having to raise price $20 and have it last twice as long. As far as how my shop works, no, like everyone else I can't add "options" for free. That said, ANY transaxle that gets done here gets the bearing installed - it's not an option. If they can't understand how the added cost is benifical they can take it elsewhere. I could understand if it was going to be a big dollar add on but this can done cheaply when you already have unit apart. Same with engines - if their "rebuild" is a new set of rings I'll give them the yellow pages to pick another shop. Sorry this has become drawn out and even off topic a little -like I said it's just my opinion and belief in how things should be done. I know most shops are more than willing to do a cheap repair knowing full well it will be back in a few months. Manufacturers are also becoming more willing to trade their reputations for a quick buck. Luckly, only a minority of my business is repair work and I have the luxury of turning away jobs if they would rather have something done cheaply rather than done right. Don't get me wrong, I don't overdo things just for the sake of doing them but I do try to understand customers needs and use and make sure it will hold up to them.
Bill

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Technician General ULGE

09-30-2007 11:55:34




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 Re: Previous ''Peerless 206-545C Transaxle - MAJOR Problem!! in reply to Bills1450, 09-29-2007 18:26:39  
Bills1450 -- Even with our differences, we do seem to think alike on many subjects related to this business. If you will Reply once more with your email address, I'd like to contact you.
Are you planning on attending the Louisville EXPO?
Sincerely,
Rodney



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Bills1450

09-26-2007 19:41:18




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 Re: Previous ''Peerless 206-545C Transaxle - MAJOR Problem!! in reply to Technician General ULGE, 09-26-2007 14:09:40  
I don't knock anyone for trying to help someone out here but isn't this really just a very long ad that you're selling a transaxle on eBay ???? I do think trying to say only a "handful" have had problems is hard to swollow for any of us who work on these - especially those that work on them after the warranties are done. Also, I have a problem with your statement "Any complaint on anything with Sears' name on it should not be held against Tecumseh" - Tecumseh is one building these, abit to Sears specs (read CHEAP AS POSSIBLE) and they should altimately be held responsible for problems that arise. And your "ad" really says your true impression of their design and quality "Note that I have upgraded this 206-545 with the heavy-duty needle-bearing option on the axle-shaft ends for better durability and longevity ".

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