How much fuel is enough on K-301 pump

I am chasing a rough running issue on my K-301 Kohler in a 212 Deere. A week ago, I removed the fuel pump outlet line from the carburetor, then used starter to crank the engine. Fuel came out of the open line, which faces vertically, but just a gentle flow like a liquid mushroom head. It did not squirt out with any real force. Put line back on, engine still runs poorly and misses a lot when I move throttle handle on dash above half-way or so. (I removed the fuel tank cap last time I was trying to run over half-throttle, still same problem.) I want to be sure my fuel supply is working before I attack other items. Thanks for any replies!

Dennis M. in W. Tenn.
 
You should get spurts when cranking with the starter.
First things first, though.
There are a lot of places things get plugged.
Those pumps don't have a lot of extra push to them on a good day.
They are expensive to replace so check everything else before you do that.

I will assume you have cleaned the carburetor.
That should be first no matter what you "think" might be wrong.
If you have an inline filter, take it out. You don't need it.
There is a filter in the tank.
Make sure you have a good stream running out of the hose that comes into the pump from the tank.
If not, pull the hose off the valve on the bottom of the tank.
Make sure that valve is turned all the way out for full flow.
IF you do not have full flow there, unscrew that valve.
Check the strainer at the top of that valve.
Drain the gunk out of the tank.

Refill the tank with clean fresh fuel.
Reassemble everything.
Make sure you have a good stream from the valve in the tank bottom.
Make sure you have a good flow from the end of the hose that goes into the fuel pump.
Crank the engine. If you don't have spurts, replace the pump.
 
It doesn't take a huge flow of fuel to sustain a 12 HP engine, but yours DOES sound a little "iffy".

IMHO, an electric fuel pump is a great upgrade, just be sure to get a low pressure unit that will work with a small engine application, there's some surprisingly good ones on ebay for $12 and up.

I have a 322 and a 400 that left the factory with electric fuel pumps, and they work well. After sitting a week or two or more, I just turn the key to "ON", and give the electric fuel pump a few seconds to fill the carb, then turn it to "crank" and they start instantly, vs a 318 with a crankcase pulse driven diaphragm pump that needs to crank for a while to get some gas to the carb.

All that being said, have you checked the ignition timing as detailed in the service manual, which involves varying the point gap to set the timing?

If you need further info, you can download the factory engine service manual at the link below in .pdf format.
Factory manual
 
I would try running from a test tank directly to the carburetor, bypassing the fuel pump. If it runs the same, the problem is probably somewhere else.

You will have to either shut off the fuel flow from the tank or pinch off the fuel line to the fuel pump to keep it from making a mess.
 
Hi, all:
It was a pretty day today! The engine got where it was running pretty fair, if I did not push the throttle handle on dash above the middle or so.

I wanted to get a little yard work done, so I drove the thing for about 30 or 45 minutes, about half throttle, some times running the mower, some just driving with no real load. Engine kept running, with fuel tank cap screwed on tight the whole time.

I think next I will try cleaning the carb as I think running steady for 30 or 45 minutes means my fuel supply is ok. Any comments welcome!

Dennis M. in W. Tenn.
 
Hi, again, this time on Sunday afternoon. I ran the tractor again yesterday, about half an hour; again it ran fairly well if I did not try for over half throttle.

One suggestion say I should have done carburetor work first! Well too late for it to be first, but I can still do it. Are there special tricks? I am an experienced amateur, many years ago I tore down and reassembled Rochester 4-barrel units and they worked afterward, so I feel confident I can clean the carb and determine if any parts need replacing.

Another suggestion was that I should verify or set the timing as per the book, which involves adjusting the points to change the timing. Has anyone reading this actually done the procedure?? It involves highlighting (with paint) the flywheel's timing mark, then checking with a timing light. Is there a procedure in a Deere publication that tells how to see and highlight the timing mark on the edge of the flywheel?? I have the Kohler book and it seems simple, but the Kohler book does not show their engine sitting like mine, down in a hole in the engine mount/bracket. Will I need to raise the engine to actually see the timing mark, and then to start the engine and use the timing light while the engine is still jacked up? I know I am being grumpy, but I am getting too old to work on a "blind alley" project for hours and hours and then find it can't be done! Thanks if someone has actually done the timing on a model 212 Deere, and can tell me about it.

Dennis M. in W. Tenn.
 
I've set the points/timing with a timing light on every similar Kohler with points I've ever tuned up, including the "cross-mounted" DEERE's.

It's not as tough as you are thinking.

Below is a link to the factory manual (.pdf), and the points setting instructions are on .pdf Pages 15 and 16, but NO photo of the timing hole, as you are seeking.
212
 
(quoted from post at 18:37:07 03/04/18) Hi, again, this time on Sunday afternoon. I ran the tractor again yesterday, about half an hour; again it ran fairly well if I did not try for over half throttle.

One suggestion say I should have done carburetor work first! Well too late for it to be first, but I can still do it. Are there special tricks? I am an experienced amateur, many years ago I tore down and reassembled Rochester 4-barrel units and they worked afterward, so I feel confident I can clean the carb and determine if any parts need replacing.

Another suggestion was that I should verify or set the timing as per the book, which involves adjusting the points to change the timing. Has anyone reading this actually done the procedure?? It involves highlighting (with paint) the flywheel's timing mark, then checking with a timing light. Is there a procedure in a Deere publication that tells how to see and highlight the timing mark on the edge of the flywheel?? I have the Kohler book and it seems simple, but the Kohler book does not show their engine sitting like mine, down in a hole in the engine mount/bracket. Will I need to raise the engine to actually see the timing mark, and then to start the engine and use the timing light while the engine is still jacked up? I know I am being grumpy, but I am getting too old to work on a "blind alley" project for hours and hours and then find it can't be done! Thanks if someone has actually done the timing on a model 212 Deere, and can tell me about it.

Dennis M. in W. Tenn.

You ask about tricks for doing the carb there is one really good one go on ebay buy a brand new aftermarket carb less than $25.00 and install it fine tune it and your done its and even odds bet that the throttle shaft and bore is worn in the old carb and no tune up kit will fix that it requires a new throttle shaft and a bushing.
GB in MN
 
One of the problems with the John Deere manuals is that they rely on us amateurs
understanding exactly what the writer had in mind at the time he wrote the explanation.
That's not always feasible.

So far as timing, forget the manual for now. You need to get the points set at .020
maximum, that's when they are fully open which is most of the rotation of the
crankshaft. That's your starting point and timing does not need revisited until
you've get the rest of your runability problems worked out. That's my opinion
and it's worth at least what you're paying for it.
 
Today I removed the carburetor; I may have a shop clean it and check it for bad parts. By the way, I noticed my air cleaner housing had some oil puddled in the bottom, and the filter element was oily pretty much all over. I had rinsed the element in a bucket of kerosene two days ago and hung it out to dry for several hours before reinstalling. So now where did oil come from to make my clean filter element oily again. The only source I see is the small hose coming into the air cleaner back plate, from the valve tappet chamber. Can someone educate me on the tappet chamber breather device?? The book seems not to say much. Thanks!

Dennis M. in W. Tenn.
 
Oil in the air filter is typically a sign of excessive engine "blowby".

POSSIBLY if the breather is mis-assembled, missing parts (the "filter" or the reed), or excessive gasket sealant is restricting oil drainback the breather itself may be the issue.

Checking for blowby and checking the operation of the breather is covered on (.pdf) Pages 22 and 23 of the official shop manual linked below.

Correct assembly of the breather is shown on Pages 133 and 134, would be the same as the K241 breather illustrated.
Factory service manual
 
Thanks to several people; Bob, since the carb is at the Deere shop, I will take the opportunity to check out the breather. Thanks for the page references!

Dennis M. in W. Tenn.
 
Folks, I got the carb back today, the Deere shop cleaned it, examined it for problems, and declared it ok. (No actual running tests). I put the carb back on the K-301, and it started and ran, but not a lot better than before. Still will not run smoothly above half throttle position on dash panel knob. One item off my list, at least for now. Back to my troubleshooting list tomorrow or later. Thanks for the interest and suggestions!

Dennis M. in W. Tenn.
 
Today, 4/2/18, I installed a temporary gravity feed fuel tank, still will not run above half throttle position on dash panel.

Help! Does anyone know where I can get a drawing or book showing the internal passageways and parts inside my carburetor. The carb is apparently an original Kohler for my K-301 12 HP engine. If documentation exists for various Kohler carbs, I can possibly get more I.D. info from the carb itself or the engine. Thanks for help or advice!

Dennis M. in W. Tenn.
 
(quoted from post at 15:13:26 04/03/18) A bad condenser can act like a bad carb.
That's true I forget that as I've converted mine to the points saver module (no condenser), its real easy to check for a bad condenser on the K series Kohlers as its right at the coil just remove it and if you have a condenser around makes no difference what its from try it if the engine responds and runs better / good go get a Kohler condenser if not then its not that.
GB in MN
 
After a week out of town, I talked to two more experts. One guy suspected my old carb was bad, the other person said don't trust my old condenser. I put on my Amazon carburetor, then when I thought I was ready, I tested for spark and found I still needed something. Spark looked ok after putting in new condenser. Tractor started fine, RAN WELL AT ALL SPEEDS, so I cut grass for an hour. I think tractor is fixed!! Not one but two items were needed; some days are like that! Thanks for the thoughtful replies, each was helpful in its own way.

Dennis M. in W. Tenn.
 

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