Balance Gears

Dave Sherburne, NY · Oct 10, 2016

I just took a old Kohler 321 engine apart, and found it still has the balance gears in it. I've heard that is best to remove them when the engine is apart because sooner or later they will create problems. What do you guys think? It's for a Case 444 but I don't think its the original engine. Someone changed the flywheel and mounted an oddball starter on it.

Married2Allis · Oct 10, 2016

Had a K321 rebuilt and did not bother with the balancer assembly, ran fine for years. Was lucky I guess. But it's the needle bearings that cause the trouble. Just replace the bearings.

WGM · Oct 10, 2016

Kohler engines in Case/Ingersoll tractors don't need balance gears.

Tom Arnold · Oct 10, 2016

That is a blanket statement and it is rather incorrect. Originally, the Kohler engines were hard mounted to the frame of the tractor and those engines all used balance gears to reduce low RPM vibration. In 1973, CASE introduced rubber isolation mounts to help with vibration and some engines did not have balance gears. The gears have been known to fatigue and fracture. When they finally break apart, it only takes on piece to fall into the spinning crank to do major damage to the camshaft and block.

Yes.... you can remove all of those gears but you will likely notice an increase in vibration at idle speed and slightly higher. Most people do not care. They would rather not spend the money for new gears and bearings. They also prefer the comfort from knowing that the gears will never cause them a problem down the road.

oldsarge · Oct 11, 2016

Or you could really do it up right by throwing away the balance gears and adding a crankshaft balance plate from Kirk Engines since you're probably going to have it at the machine shop anyway!!!!!

MNGB · Oct 11, 2016

I agree with oldsarge, if you want to get rid of most of the idle vibs install the Kirk engine CS balance kit, on one of my K321's in the Power King I left the gears out its a hard mounted engine and there is very little noticeable vibration, last winter when I built up a spare engine I left the / reinstalled the gears they are a major PITA to get aligned and to tell the truth I couldn't tell much difference when I run it on my engine stand. If I do another I'll go with Kirk's balance kit.
GB in MN

dhermesc · Oct 11, 2016

That has been my experience - you really can't tell which ones have them and which ones don't. With so little difference they aren't worth the potential cost.

Dave Sherburne, NY · Oct 11, 2016

I was cleaning up the engine parts today, and while cleaning the block I wiggled the balance gears, I mean really wiggled them. I think the bearings were shot or the shafts were worn out. It no longer has the balance gears in it. The engine will be going in a Case 444 and the motor mounts will be new. I don't think I will miss the gears at all.
Thanks guys

Butch(OH) · Oct 12, 2016

There are several good options depending on your engine mountings and one bad one, which is to reinstall the gears without careful examination and new shafts and bearings. Removing them wont cause issues with most owners especially if the engine is cushion mounted. However I removed them from a 16HP in a narrow frame Cub Cadet and the owner could not tolerate the increased vibration levels which in that case were substantial. The gears were worn to the point of needing replaced so I added the weight from Kirk as an experiment. It works as advertised and if a persona has a lathe and mill in the shop it is little more work than fooling with the balance gears and less expansive than the parts to repair them.

MNGB · Oct 12, 2016

Thanks Butch, for the real world report on the Kirk balance wt use
like I posted next time I'll go with it.
GB in MN

Butch(OH) · Oct 12, 2016

You are welcome.
I had removed the gears from several previous overhauls and sometimes a person cannot tell any difference, next time it is noticeable only at certain RPMs, but this time it was pretty severe at all RPMs and that was after I assured the customer he would barely be able to tell the difference if at all. The narrow frame Cubs are all getting pretty well worn and rattly so between the increased vibrations and all the rattles it made for an intolerable situation. I installed that one for free.
I now stock the plates now and plan to use them in all future jobs.

JHesler · Oct 28, 2016

I dunno. Have been running a few 40 yr old Gravelys with K321's. Balance gears intact... no problems. I think it's an "old wives tale" perpetrated by dopes who don't check the engine oil. Kohlers are great engines. If we want to bash something lets start with B&S.

MNGB · Oct 28, 2016

Hi you need to go back and read the postings NObody was bashing Kohlers and there's no need to bash B&S the question was when overhauling the Kohler engine should the balance gears be replaced or left out, replacing the gears and bearings and maybe the shafts is a must at OH if they are to be left in and that is a spendy, so many times the gears are left out or there is the Kirk CS balance kit.
GB in MN

Ironman62 · Nov 5, 2016

When ever I have a K series in for refresh/rebuild and it has balance gears. They are the first thing to go in the scrap bucket. If you have ever seen a K series where the balance gears exploded, you would know why they are removed. But then again, it is a personal choice to leave them or remove them.

Balance Gears

Dave Sherburne, NY

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Married2Allis

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WGM

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Tom Arnold

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oldsarge

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MNGB

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dhermesc

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Dave Sherburne, NY

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Butch(OH)

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MNGB

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Butch(OH)

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JHesler

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MNGB

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Ironman62

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