JOB

Member
I have a 1980 444 Case that I use only for snow blowing. So it sits all summer in the garage. The tractor ran fine a couple of months ago when I fixed the snow blower. Now it will not start.I am getting gas to the carburetor, I took the fuel line off and the fuel pump squirts gas real good. My guess is the carburetor is gummed up with the chemical we buy at the gas station and put in our Gas tanks. Question is what should I soak this carburetor in to eat up the Gunk. Or have I drawn the wrong conclusion as to what is wrong with the engine. The engine is the 14 horse Kohler. Hind sight is I should have put some sea foam it the gas tank from time to time. I have used this tractor for the last 25 years or so with no problems with gas until now so I did not think it would be a problem. Guess I was wrong. Any suggestions?
 
My first GUESS would be that the inlet needle valve is stuck closed.

Before getting too drastic, you could rap (reasonably) on the carburetor near the gas inlet area with a plastic screwdriver handle to try to get the needle to drop.

If that fails, remove the float bowl and verify that the needle is stuck and free it.

HOPEFULLY, the rubber bowl gasket didn't tear and isn't swollen up so that it can't be reused!

Likely, though if that's what's wrong the viton tip on the needle has become soft and sticky and will stick closed again.

If so, the fix will be a new needle and seat.
 
What you don't tell us is that you checked to see if you had a fat, blue spark jumping the gap of the plug. If you have not pulled the plug, grounded the shell and watched the gap to see how good a spark is there, then that is what you need to do before going any further.

The spark must be strong because it is harder to jump the gap when the cylinder is under compression.

Yes.... you should have put Seafoam in the fuel tank because it works.

Remove the float bowl carefully. Do you see any moisture in the bottom of it? How about dirt? How about jellied fuel? Is the float stuck in the closed position? Let the float drop and hold a clean glass container under it. Spin the engine over. Are you getting fuel coming out? What does that fuel look like? If the gas is bad, then remove the fuel line from the fuel pump and let it flow into an appropriate container until the tank is empty. Then go get some fresh regular gas along with a can of Seafoam. Inspect the inside of the fuel tank to make sure it is clean with no jelled fuel in it. Pour in half the can of Seafoam and then put one gallon of fresh gas into the tank. With the float still hanging and the spark plug removed, spin the engine over until you have a half pint of fuel in the container. That will flush out the fuel line and filter.

Put the float bowl back on and spin the engine over for 10 seconds to fill the float bowl. Put the spark plug back in and try to start the engine. If you have good spark and fresh fuel, then it should start unless the jets are completely gummed up from bad fuel. But you should have noticed bad fuel in the float bowl if bad fuel is the issue.
 
Tom, I should have mentioned spark, that was checked and it is a strong blue. I will follow yours and Bobs instructions. That carburetor is a little hard to work on with it on the engine. I will give it a try though. I never gave the needle valve a thought. If I would have taken the bowl off before I posted on here and that is the problem I would not have looked so dumb. You give pretty thorough instructions, thanks.
 
I agree with all of the above and I would say to add StarTron to your gas. Also set up your carb to run on Hi-test gas. No problems for three years with my Kohler engines!
 
Why would you use high test gas? Regular fuel is more volatile and faster burning. High test has additives that slow down the burn rate. It was designed for high compression engines of 10 to 1 or more. These engines are around 6 to 1. I await your explanation.
 
Tom Arnold and Bob, thanks for the help, I am up and running. I removed the bowl and did not see any moisture or jelled fuel. There was a small amount of very fine dirt that wiped out nicely. The float was not stuck up but the needle was stuck up. A little wiggle and it dropped in my fingers. Put everything back together, well almost. I had a gas tank higher than the carburetor plumbed to the carburetor and a gas line from the fuel pump to a five gallon gas can. That engine would not run. I removed the bowl again and gas just trickled out, I let it trickle out until it flowed pretty good. Put the bowl back on and the engine ran pretty darn good. The engine did not run that long before I shut it off but the fuel pump pumped almost all the gas from the tank into the five gallon can. I do not think the gas in the tank was bad. But I did put in the freshest gas I had on hand with sea foam in the tank when I started it, with everything hooked up right. Looks like I won't be shoveling that five inches of snow we are supposed to get in the next day or so. Thanks again
 
Bob, your first guess was right, but rapping on the carburetor a little did not free it up. The needle was all steel so that will be used again. The bowl gasket freed up without wrecking it so I reused it. Looks like I lucked out, I am up and running. Putting that float back on the carburetor with the needle valve in place was pretty tedious with the carburetor on the engine. Thought I might have to tip the tractor upside down. Thanks Bob.

Are you the Bob that knows about Hot water heating boiler controls?
 
Thanks for your vote of confidence, JOB, and glad you got the 'ol K-series engine running!

And yes, I work with hydronic boilers and controls.

Whether I know a damned thing about those or not, is up for discussion on this public FORUM, though!
 
Bob, would you be willing to share some of your hydronic boiler skills. I would rather do that off this forum if you are agreeable. I could give you a phone number and we could start from there or if you prefer an e-mail address, I will do that. I know a little about Hydronic heating from what I learned in Caleffi trade journals. But I know very little about controls. Electrics confuse me.
 
Tom,
I don't know why he does but I can tell you why I do. The only non-10% alcohol fuel we have is hi-test and only at certain stations. I find that it works better in every small gas engine I own than the blended fuels. It starts better, runs better and less problems with the fuel system parts and pieces. It also lasts longer before it gets stale. Yes the few old K Kohler's I run have a higher tolerance for blended fuel than some others but with a garage full of gasoline powered equipment and 5 people using it all "gas" needs to be "gas" if you get my drift? One type fits all, except for 50-1 2 cycle mix. And non- alcohol hi-test fits the bill better than anything else I can buy around here.
 
Butch,
Thank you for that explanation. I am a Canadian and it is my understanding (according to the signage on the gas pumps) is that all gasoline sold in Ontario MAY contain up to 10 percent alcohol. If that is true, then there is no "safe haven" from alcohol for me short of buying "race gas" in 55 gallon drums at a very expensive price. So based upon what you report, I agree that hi-test gasoline is a better choice.
 
Hi I've found the same thing here in MN that with 91 octane gas most engines start better and the 91 lasts much longer before going bad, having said this I for the most part use the blended gas for all my equipment and have not had any serious problems the ethanol can be hard on fuel lines more so with the plastic ones vs rubber hose.
GB in MN
 
One place to look for NON ethanol gas is at any marina, seems the boating industry is also impacted by this issue and most keep it at a premium price though. :wink: :wink:
 

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