Small forklift

Dieseltech

Well-known Member
Location
Akron, Indiana
Planning on making a MF 14 into a small forklift. Has anyone done this before? Want to use a Petter PH2 diesel for power and counterbalance weight, should work well with the 2 speed hydro transmission I am thinking. Any thoughts welcome!
 
In my opinion, you will have to design a sub-frame that will carry the actual forklift attachment. The sub-frame will be fastened to the rear axle housing, extend under the tractor to past the front where a counter-weight box will sit.

Of course, the sub-frame will also have to mount to a spot close to the front of the tractor or the actual front of the tractor frame. The problem here is one of ground clearance with the Massey because the sub-frame must go below the front axle but not impede the up/down travel of the axle.

A much better choice for your project would be a garden tractor with 16 inch rear tires because of the increased ground clearance.

If you check with your local scrap metal dealers, you might find a fork mast and forks from a very light fork truck. I am thinking of an electric aisle fork truck such as you see in some stores that use steel pallet racking. Realistically, you do not want to lift a load higher than 6 feet and the load should not exceed 1000 LBS. Finding a mast that comes anywhere close to those specs will be difficult.... so you may end up designing and making your own mast.

I would suggest that the rear tires should be 9:50 X 16" AGS so that you can install the largest volume of RimGard into them. Then I would look for a pair of cast iron 160 LB per side wheel weights from an old combine harvester. You want as much weight as possible as low as possible to make this unit highly stable when it has a load in the air.

You will likely have to reinforce the tilt-hood on any tractor you choose because the operator seat will have to be positioned there. Finding a tractor with power steering will solve a lot of problems for you on that front. Just make a new mount above the rear axle and install extended hoses. I would suggest Tri-Rib front tires for maximum steering control plus those make turning much easier. If you can .......get some 4 bolt trailer hubs and fit them to the front axle. Those hubs have tapered roller bearings in them that will handle the extra load on the front axle. Switching up from 8 inch to 10 inch front rims is another good move. The front tires can also be loaded with RimGard to help with the counter-weighting issue.

Choosing a platform that best suits this project is much smarter than going with some old GT that is cheap and handy. What you are planning will take a considerable amount of time to engineer and construct. When you are finished, you want something that will actually do the job you envisioned...... safely.

I suggest that you take a good look at an Ingersoll 4016PS, 4018PS or 4020PS. Those tractors come with a 10 GPM hydraulic system that will allow you add a 2 spool valve. You can then not only raise/lower items but also tilt the mast forward and backward.
 
I've seen forklifts with hydrostat transmissions. The concept works very well.

My concern with converting a garden tractor to a lift truck would be overloading the axles. Not familiar with that particular model, but typically the rear axles are designed to handle only what power the rest of the tractor was originally designed to produce. And the front suspension is not intended to handle any extra weight at all! Usually the first thing to fail is the steering gear under normal use!

Sounds like a lot of work for something that could be bought.
 
Back in 1967, there was a company that made a forklift based
upon a Case 190 garden tractor. It was done with the blessing of
Case. Steve Guider owns the only known remaining example and
he uses it regularly.

The same company also installed a very heavy chain-type
trencher to a 190 Case with huge front counterweight. They
installed larger front wheels and then added big wheel weights
to them. The trencher unit had its own air-cooled engine to
power it. Steve Guider also owns of these machines and has
used it several times.

John Deere also had a fork lift conversion available. There was a
write-up in LAGC/LAGT about it.

The CASE 600 Series loader/backhoe models used the Davis D-
100 backhoe because Davis was wholly-owned by Case at the
time. That D-100 weighs over 1000 LBS on it's own and there
was a massive front counterweight added to the sub-frame that
supported the backhoe.

I cannot speak for the strength of the trans-axles used in the
AMF Massey-Ferguson tractors and you do make a good point.
If the MF 14 has a cast aluminum trans-axle, then there is need
for concern as to just how much weight is too much weight.
 
In my opinion, you will have to design a sub-frame that will carry the actual forklift attachment. The sub-frame will be fastened to the rear axle housing, extend under the tractor to past the front where a counter-weight box will sit.

You have basically described my 1971 Bolens 1886 Forklift.

It was used by a local Bolens/garden store for 35+ years, and then sat idle until I bought it from them about 2 years ago.

It had the original 'standard' 5.80/5.00-8 tires on the front, and 26x12-12 tires on the rear.

It was used HARD, and they told me that they routinely exceeded the 750# mast rating to the extent that they had to straighten the forks more than once.

The front end was still original and had plenty of life still left in it.

It got a refurbish over the winter, and we did replace the front spindle/axles, but that was to allow for the use of 18-8.85-8 tires, and the original front end would not allow for that.

For the rears we went with a set of 27x11-12 ATV tires as I wanted a bit more ground clearance since I'm using it mostly off-road.

Here's a link to a video of it just after I bought it and before it was delivered.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5FLOzvJNnU&list=UU1Uz61LmXc5LyoDSnOOsWBw

Here's a link to a long running thread of the refurbishment:
http://gardentractortalk.com/forums/topic/29815-bolens-1886-forklift-refurb/?hl= forklift

And, a few pics.

mvphoto12099.jpg


mvphoto12100.jpg


mvphoto12101.jpg

mvphoto12102.jpg

mvphoto12103.jpg

mvphoto12104.jpg
 
Thanks, guys! What I plan to do is reverse the tractor and have the mast close as possible to the drive axle. I like the sub frame idea too, just like the MF tractor forklift I have now, a Harlow conversion. The MF 14 does have cast iron axle housings with the lower three point pins which the sub frame could fasten to. I was planning on 26 12 12 dirt tires but can go larger. Already found a small shop forklift at Portland fall swap last week to convert, it has a 1000 LB rating. Was thinking 6 to 800 would be most I would use it for. Hydraulics would be from MF combines I have saved the pump, valves etc from after scrapping the rest. Thanks again for the ideas!
 
Both the Case and Deere conversions were mounted at the rear and the operator's chair faced the back of the tractor.

You need to find out the specs for the hydraulic pump that you salvaged from that combine. I suspect that the shop fork lift mast will not need more than 4 GPM to be happy. However, you could install an adjustable flow control valve onto the output port of the pump, take whatever you need for the fork cylinder and let the balance go straight back to the reservoir. The port diameter of the control valve is also important because if it is too large, then you lose fine control over the lift cylinder. Fine control is needed when you are finding the ideal height to enter a pallet or to exit a pallet.

You do not want the hydraulics to be twitchy so be cautious on choosing the components.
 
I will find out the pump flow rating, it has two pressure outlets as one side gave priority to the power steering while the other outlet was for the three spool control valve, I am thinking of power steering while I'm at it. I have another MF 14 with a Johnson loader, it looks neat but really is not practical to use, that's why I want the forks on the back. You are right about the lift cylinder, fine even control is best. Since the pump is belt driven I can slow it down if needed. The combine valve used different size orifice plates in the line ports to adjust cylinder speed so that can help too. Thanks again!
 
It sounds to me like the pump is a dual chamber model with a single inlet port. The chamber that was used for the power steering likely puts out just 2 GPM or so because power steering pumps do not need much flow.

Slowing down the speed of the pump will cut the GPM on both pumps and that could be a problem should you put power steering on this project. Fortunately for you, that pump was always belt driven and therefore has a roller bearing to support the shaft. Most pumps need to be coupled directly because they do not have a roller bearing and instead use the aluminum housing as the bearing.

The housing will not stand up to the side loading encountered by belt drives and end up leaking past the front seal in short order.

Try to identify the pump maker and model number so that we can see all of the specs on this pump. Knowing what both chambers put out in the way of GPM and at what RPM plus the rotation of the pump and the maximum pressure each chamber can safely produce will be an important first step toward planning the hydraulic system for your project.
 
Just found the Cessna pump specs for the MF 300, 410, and 510 combine hydraulic system. Clockwise at 2100 RPM, 10 gallons per minute total, 2.5 priority to power steering and 7.5 to the control valve. Pump bolts to a bearing assembly two groove pulley, as one groove was used to run the radiator fan. The three spool valve has one single and two double action spools, the single I'll use for mast lift, one double for tilt and may use the other for side shift if needed. Have the steering hand pump saved too so power steering will be used also. In your opinion would side shift be that worthwhile? I do use it on the large forklift at times, but it might just be a novelty on a small lift. Thanks.
 
Side shift can be a time saver when loading or unloading. The question is...... will it be of benefit on this lift truck? I am assuming that the mast you have, has this feature and it is just a matter of running a couple more hoses to an existing cylinder.


Now that we have the pump specs, let's talk about the mast you intend to use. If you have a large calliper, then it is easy to measure the outside diameter of the lift cylinder. We can guess at the wall thickness and come close to figuring out the actual cylinder bore.

The 2nd thing is the length of the stroke and that can be determined by collapsing the rod into the cylinder and then extending it fully. Once we know the bore and stroke, then we can get a pretty good idea as to how many gallons of oil that cylinder needs to fully extend.

This exercise is to discover the ideal speed of the cylinder in seconds. You do not want it to be too slow or too fast. If you have a stop watch, then check the speed of your other forklift for comparison purposes. That will give you a benchmark.

For example, let's say that the cylinder is 36 inches in stroke and it takes 2 gallons to extend it fully. Your pump is putting out 7.5 GPM or 1/8th of a gallon per second. It will take 16 seconds to extend the cylinder. That would seem to be a reasonable rate of lift that would be very controllable.

It is possible to place an adjustable flow control valve between the lift cylinder and the control valve that can slow the rate of flow down just on this circuit if you find that the lift rate is far too fast. If all three circuits are too fast, then an adjustable flow diverter valve can be installed between the pump and the IN port of the control bank and you can play with that setting until you are happy with the speed of the cylinders during full throttle operation.

You should obtain a glycerin filled pressure gauge so that you know what the relief setting is. You may want to adjust that relief setting to a lower figure. A 3000 PSI gauge is typically less than twenty dollars.

You will have to calculate the pulley ratio to spin the pump. Your engine is supposed to have a wide open throttle speed of 3600 RPM. I assume that you will use the front PTO pulley on the engine to spin the pump and you may have to find a larger pulley for the pump in order to achieve the 2100 RPM that makes the pump happy.
 
The Kohler engine will not be used, but a 2 cylinder Petter diesel instead because I'll need some counterweight anyway, and I like diesels. The max speed will be 2000 so 1 to 1 pump speed can be used. Pump relief valve is presently set at 1500 PSI. This will keep me busy this winter, hope to have it working by the May Portland IN swap meet since I sold the small skid loader I used to take and move parts around with. Thanks for the ideas, will help others too I'm sure!
 

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