Lee Richards
Member
Has anyone know of comparison of these motors
- Thread starter Lee Richards
- Start date
Tom Arnold
Well-known Member
I very much doubt that you or anyone else will find a published
comparison between these three brands of engines.
All three companies produced many models with various HP and
displacement. Generally speaking, all three are premium quality
and you can add Kawasaki and Generac to that list.
Why are you asking? What do you want the engine to do? More
information can often bring better responses.
comparison between these three brands of engines.
All three companies produced many models with various HP and
displacement. Generally speaking, all three are premium quality
and you can add Kawasaki and Generac to that list.
Why are you asking? What do you want the engine to do? More
information can often bring better responses.
Tom Arnold
Well-known Member
I agree with your belief regarding Honda engines. They are not selected very often for garden tractor use though. I also agree that Onans are first-rate but they were phased out of production in the early 2000's because they could no longer meet EPA rules.
Yes... they can be pricey to repair but often it is much better to rebuild an existing Onan then it is to re-power the tractor with a different brand of engine.
It all comes down to the application...... which has not been stated as of yet.
Yes... they can be pricey to repair but often it is much better to rebuild an existing Onan then it is to re-power the tractor with a different brand of engine.
It all comes down to the application...... which has not been stated as of yet.
Josh Cronk
Member
Briggs Vanguard are certainly a good engine, look at alot if commercial equipment, small saw mills, stump grinders ect.. you will see a Vanguard engine.
Honda's are also a good engine.
onan is a good engine but they are no longer being made and parts are getting expensive and harder to find. They were used in alot of commercial and rv generators.
Honda's are also a good engine.
onan is a good engine but they are no longer being made and parts are getting expensive and harder to find. They were used in alot of commercial and rv generators.
Lee Richards
Member
The reason I ask, is that I have a John Deere 318 and a 420 with onan engines that have almost 2000 hours and are useing oil. The 318 has a loader that I use to log timber and fire wood. The 420 mows grass and plows and blows snow and is used for gardening. Both of these tractors have other implements and I just do not want to replace everything with new. I have a log splitter with a Briggs engine and a brush grinder with a Honda. The Honda seems to by far gets the best gas saveings and starts the easiest. I have talked to some mechanics close by me who say they think the onans and briggs are the only way to go {other than buy new}. I am seeking more input before I make a choice. Thanks
Tom Arnold
Well-known Member
My advice is simple. The Onan's have served you very well and if
I was in your shoes, I would spend the money and rebuild them.
Going that route makes life simpler. You don't have to drill new
holes, come up with a new exhaust system, change the wiring
around or possibly modify the hood or other parts of the tractor
so that a different engine will fit.
There is also the issue of the PTO clutch that must be considered
as well as connecting fuel lines, choke and throttle cables etc.
The only way to assess an Onan is to remove it and open it up.
For all you know, the bores may just need cross-hatching along
with a new set of rings plus a valve job in order to curb the thirst
for oil. Deere chose the Onan because it was the best of the best
at that time. Torque from an Onan is often superior to any other
make of engine. I am a big fan of Honda products but sticking
with the tried and true Onan is the better choice in my opinion.
If you need help with getting Onan parts, let me know and I will
hook you up with a trusted individual who can help.
I was in your shoes, I would spend the money and rebuild them.
Going that route makes life simpler. You don't have to drill new
holes, come up with a new exhaust system, change the wiring
around or possibly modify the hood or other parts of the tractor
so that a different engine will fit.
There is also the issue of the PTO clutch that must be considered
as well as connecting fuel lines, choke and throttle cables etc.
The only way to assess an Onan is to remove it and open it up.
For all you know, the bores may just need cross-hatching along
with a new set of rings plus a valve job in order to curb the thirst
for oil. Deere chose the Onan because it was the best of the best
at that time. Torque from an Onan is often superior to any other
make of engine. I am a big fan of Honda products but sticking
with the tried and true Onan is the better choice in my opinion.
If you need help with getting Onan parts, let me know and I will
hook you up with a trusted individual who can help.
Lee Richards
Member
I would greatly appreciate any information, vendor names, and parts description you would be willing to provide. And thank you!!!! My e-mail is [email protected]
Tom Arnold
Well-known Member
I sent you an e-mail.
Lee Richards
Member
Thanks Tom!!!!
Tom Arnold
Well-known Member
Perhaps there is a logical reason for you to offer a vertical shaft Intek engine to the OP when his post is all about top tier horizontal shaft engines such as the B&S Vanguard series, Onan engines and Honda GX commercial grade products but I guess you'll have to tell us what it is.
The Intek doesn't even compare favourably to the engines under discussion when it comes to projected lifespan.
The Intek doesn't even compare favourably to the engines under discussion when it comes to projected lifespan.
Josh Cronk
Member
Small engine warehouse has repower kits for both your tractors to install a Vanguard v twin in place of your onan.
318 is offered in 18hp or 23hp
http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/Repower-Old-Equipment/John-Deere-318-Category/
420 is offered in 23hp
http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/Repower-Old-Equipment/John-Deere-420-Category/
Kits include the engine, all necessary parts and brackets to install on the tractor, and a muffler.
These kits have become popular in older JD garden tractors due to the cost of rebuilding an onan.
Plus you get a more modern engine with overhead valves and electronic ignition. The fuel efficiency will be much better compared to an Onan. I am currently in the process of repowering a 317 with a Vanguard, but am not buying a kit, I am fabbing it up myself.
318 is offered in 18hp or 23hp
http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/Repower-Old-Equipment/John-Deere-318-Category/
420 is offered in 23hp
http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/Repower-Old-Equipment/John-Deere-420-Category/
Kits include the engine, all necessary parts and brackets to install on the tractor, and a muffler.
These kits have become popular in older JD garden tractors due to the cost of rebuilding an onan.
Plus you get a more modern engine with overhead valves and electronic ignition. The fuel efficiency will be much better compared to an Onan. I am currently in the process of repowering a 317 with a Vanguard, but am not buying a kit, I am fabbing it up myself.
Tom Arnold
Well-known Member
I agree that those offerings are an excellent alternative IF..... the
Onans cannot be rebuilt for a reasonable price. I also agree that
the Vanguard is more fuel efficient but it certainly does not have
the torque output that the Onan has.
There is no substitute for cubic inches.
Onans cannot be rebuilt for a reasonable price. I also agree that
the Vanguard is more fuel efficient but it certainly does not have
the torque output that the Onan has.
There is no substitute for cubic inches.
only offer cause i have some guys convert them. yes they put vertical in place of horizontal.why i don't know. to me its not worth the trouble. customer is always right. as far as model i stated its held up just fine from what we seen here. its mainly a mind game or if the neighbors has had trouble with engine its bad engine. Honda engines you can keep, don't like them when they show up. motors are alright it just they really rake you for parts pricing.
When I was employed with a Deere dealer I ordered the last remaining P218G Onan from the Atlanta GA warehouse. I believe it was the year 2000 or 01.It was for a customer with a 318.Believe it was around $1200 something odd dollars. Wish I had a warehouse full of them. I have a well worn (over 2800 hrs) P218G out of my own 318 that I will be rebuilding instead of repowering. Expensive? Yes. But it is a brute of an engine that aren't being produced any longer and I just want to keep it original as well.
Untitled URL Link
Untitled URL Link
I'm in the Onan camp as well. Rebuilding is your best option. I have three Case machines with Onans, plus a brand new B48M short block in Onan packaging on the shelf if I ever need it. So far the only thing I have replaced on any of them are starters and fuel pump diaphragms. Let them warm up for a few minutes when you start them, use good oil and change it regularly, and they'll outlast, and out-torque, anything except an old Wisconsin. My Case 446 has 2640 hours last I looked, and it still doesn't smoke at all, uses very little oil. It even has spark plugs in it that were last changed in 1983. It's my workhorse for blade work, plus I pull an 8-foot wide single gang disk with it. My 448 is the snowblower machine, and the 4016 does nothing but mow.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I'm getting ready to rebuild the onan in my 318 and some of the parts are expensive but Cummins bought onan a few years ago to start producing the parts so they are available plus there is a rumor that might start producing engines again.
Tom Arnold
Well-known Member
Cummins won't be having any old style Onan's built.
That engine cannot meet EPA regulations for emissions which is why it was killed off 14 years ago. Linamar in Guelph, Ontario, Canada was the company that made Onan engines in the final few years of production. I doubt that they even have the tooling for it any longer and it's hard to say if Cummins paid the cost to have that tooling shipped back to them.
In order to start production again, there would have to be the ability to sell thousands of engines every year for use in garden tractors, portable generators, portable welders and so forth to keep the costs of tooling up reasonable. Since no company can defy the EPA and survive, where is the market for those engines? Making a slew of short blocks for the repair market is cost prohibitive. The parts are already overpriced as it is.
Yes... they are great engines but no one is going to pay 2 or 3 times what a Honda, Vanguard or Command Pro costs just to have an Onan.
That engine cannot meet EPA regulations for emissions which is why it was killed off 14 years ago. Linamar in Guelph, Ontario, Canada was the company that made Onan engines in the final few years of production. I doubt that they even have the tooling for it any longer and it's hard to say if Cummins paid the cost to have that tooling shipped back to them.
In order to start production again, there would have to be the ability to sell thousands of engines every year for use in garden tractors, portable generators, portable welders and so forth to keep the costs of tooling up reasonable. Since no company can defy the EPA and survive, where is the market for those engines? Making a slew of short blocks for the repair market is cost prohibitive. The parts are already overpriced as it is.
Yes... they are great engines but no one is going to pay 2 or 3 times what a Honda, Vanguard or Command Pro costs just to have an Onan.
Dennis Gray
New User
Do I have to have the mower deck on the tractor for
it to operate?
it to operate?
Welding man
Well-known Member
- Location
- West Virginia
Kindly like Ford Chev or Dodge. I have owned a few Onans on welding machines, Briggs on mowers and Air Compressors and a couple of hondas but my choice on all of them is a Kohler. Quieter and more fuel efficent than the Onan. I have no luck at all with Briggs and my Hondas haven't done all that well either.
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