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Garden Tractors Discussion Forum

Re: 1970 14 hp kohler no spark

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wayne huber

11-30-2013 07:10:35
50.104.12.57



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Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Good morning Joe I read your feed back. I did unhook and check the kill wire. the battery is brand new and was replaced before it lost spark and ran good. the tractor was being used and stop running like someone turned the key off ! I did repair the wire from the stator to the a side of the trigger. The insulation was coming off and was afraid of it shorting out !! the stator at that time was inspected and no burn marks or damage was seen. Tested the stator had good readings from the two leads going to the regulator but no reading from the 3rd wire that goes to the trigger. I need to test it like you said with the regulator leads unhooked when I do I will let you know what I get. Again I thank you for your help !!! and Joe so you know we have owned this tractor since 1973 and has always parked this tractor inside when not being used . This tractor is like part of the family! Thanks again.

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wayne huber

12-03-2013 08:04:32
50.104.12.57



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 Re: 1970 14 hp kohler no spark in reply to wayne huber, 11-30-2013 07:10:35  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Well guys I unhooked the regulator wire and check check the voltage again and still had 2.3 volt at the a side of the trigger ! I feel this is not enough to energize the coil to make spark. I feel I need at least 10 volt ! let me know if you agree !!! So I was able to talk to a guy at kohler tec support. He remembers working on the trigger type ignitions in his younger days . With all the information available to him he could not find any information on the voltage needed from the two stator windings to power up the ignition . But we both agreed 2.3 volts was not enough !! So the stator is no longer available and not repairable far as I know. SO , I wonder if a guy could hook battery voltage to the a side of the trigger and make the ignition work !! And the key would be used as a ground and turn the power off to the ignition!! Let me know what you think !!! You guys have been a lot of help and I thank you!! Happy holidays !!!!

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wayne huber

12-03-2013 11:03:40
50.104.12.57



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 Re: 1970 14 hp kohler no spark in reply to wayne huber, 12-03-2013 08:04:32  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Yes Bob I did check it with the trigger unhooked and tested it at each point to the coil getting only 2.3 volts at each point. We may end up butting the conversion kit on . But I would still like to figure out the problem.



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joe csuti

12-05-2013 06:23:54
4.248.78.32



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 Re: 1970 14 hp kohler no spark in reply to wayne huber, 12-03-2013 11:03:40  
I found a stator in shed removed from eng(s)that I did point conversion on & removed stator when I scrapped eng.First thing to check,if you had to tape trigger lead,check lead all the way back to stator,lead may be shorting to bearing plate or in clamp to hold wires to plate.

Next check resistance of coil for trigger module on stator,with trigger lead disconnected,read between lead & eng block/stator frame,my coil read .45 ohms(less than half an ohm),I don't know if this is correct or not as I didn't confirm what ign problem was with solid state ign,if Bob can find his stator or by you checking you're stator you may be able to confirm if .45 ohm is correct.

If the .45 ohms is correct & reading less than that possible causes could be trigger lead shorted to bearing plate,wire turns in coil shorted together or coil shorted to stator frame.Other possible cause of low voltage,magnets in flywheel missing/cracked.

If you are considering doing a point conversion be sure you know what you're getting into & do some checking BEFORE buying conversion kit & also ask yourself if you have elect knowledge/skills to do conversion as this is NOT just a 15-30 min job of slapping points,plunger,coil & condenser on eng & job done & you can walk away from it.

First thing as Bob said check on left side of cam gear cover to see if you have a series of 4 vertical tapped holes in block,if you don't have holes you can't do conversion,early factory conversions had holes,later eng with solid state ign didn't,next check flywheel cover for a hole/plug in hole or bearing plate for a hole/plug in hole in area between starter/block,you must have hole in either location in order to time ign after doing conversion either by static/timing light method,many of later solid state eng didn't have holes in either location due to ign timing being fixed.Next you'll have to decide after driving dowel pin/cap into eng for point plunger if you want to pull oil pan & remove pin/cap from eng or take your chances with same in pan as many of us do,instructions included with kit recommend removing pan.

Next check existing ign sw if same has a terminal that provides +12v when sw in on/run position,due to fact sw designed for magneto/solid state ign sw may/may no have terminal depending on how tractor wired & acc on tractor.If oem sw doesn't have a terminal for 12v supply you'll have to buy a new ign sw designed for battery ign,after that you'll still have to provide a +12v source to coil when cranking eng by either changing starter sol to a ford style sol,add a push button to dash or add an aux relay if replacement ign sw doesn't have an ign terminal that +12v is provided to while sw in on/run position & start position.

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Bob

12-03-2013 12:29:21
64.255.159.192



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 Re: 1970 14 hp kohler no spark in reply to wayne huber, 12-03-2013 11:03:40  
I have repaired a few over the years... this is ONE case where it"s handy to have a set of known-good parts to substitute.

I have a good stator somewhere in the shop, if I can find it, and have another on a 140 DEERE that was converted to Kettering ignition "cuz the module failed. That one needs an OH and will have to come apart (a couple possible sources IF you determine it"s the stator and cannot find one).

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Bob

12-03-2013 09:26:48
64.255.159.192



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 Re: 1970 14 hp kohler no spark in reply to wayne huber, 12-03-2013 08:04:32  
I do NOT believe there's a way to operate the module by powering it b y battery voltage, and such an attempt will "let the smoke out", if in fact it IS still functioning.


Here's MY interpretation of how this system works, FWIW. Did you check AC voltage out of the stator with the trigger module unhooked from the stator? The way I understand this system, the stator makes AC, the trigger module rectifies it to DC, which is stored in the capacitor built into the coil.

When the tab on the flywheel passes the trigger, an SCR is "fired", which rapidly discharges the capacitor in the coil, causing current in the coil primary that is "stepped up" by the turn ratio to a high enough voltage to fire the spark plug. (A type of "CD" ignition.)

The open-circuit AC voltage out of the stator would be one thing, beyond that (whatever the correct value should be), the diode(s) in the module have to be OK to make the DC voltage, the SCR must not be shorted or leaky, and the coil and capacitor must be functioning so a DC voltage builds up between spark events so the coil is able to be fired.

So, if you are measuring DC voltage at the coil terminal and it's actually low, the fault could be in the stator, the trigger module, or the coil.

Are you aware most likely you CAN install a plunger and a set of points and a coil and convert it to Kettering ignition? (Seems to me certain blocks were not drilled for the plunger or point mounting holes. Normally, the holes are there and the plunger hole is plugged with a little "cup plug".

If you GGOGLE "Kohler 237750S" you will get info on what is involved.

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