best cub to buy & why

cowboy357

New User
I am looking for a new mower, my last Craftsman just died. I just can't see buying another one. I want something more substantial, more tractor like. Mostly I would use it to mow the lawn, but thought it could pull an arena drag to dress the round pen where we ride our horses, maybe do some other chores.
I've seen lots of different models for sale, is the hydrostatic better than the clutch, which models have a three point hitch, do any have remote hydraulics, which have hydraulically raised mower decks, are they all shaft drive, do the two cylinders have that much more power, is there a big advantage to a creeper rear, if I find one without a mower deck are the decks interchangeable from one model to another?
Thanks in advance!
 
I have a CC 72 with a 12 hp Kohler. It also has fenders and low-range gear box. That tractor has been used with a tiller, back-blade and mower deck. I prefer the standard shift on a working tractor.
Altho, I also have a CC 125 and a CC 129. They work well also.
The standard shift tractors have even numbers. (122, 124 ,128, etc.) The odd number tractors are hydrostatic. (125, 129, etc.)Good Luck....
 
The local Parks and Recreation folks in our borough bought 2 light duty lawn tractors, for pulling a "drag" to level the base paths, and gravel driveways, at our Boro parks. Didn"t take long to pull the guts out of one-broke the drive belt, bent the front axle, and did some other damage! (Now, these tractors were El-cheapos, and not suited for that kind of heavy use.) First was a broken belt. Next, another broken belt, then deck damage, bent front axle, and just plain neglect!
And, one day, they brought in the other one. Said it wouldn"t turn over. I looked it over-and there- sticking out of the block was the connecting rod! Yep, it wouldn"t turn over! And, another case of neglect! Did anybody care enough to check the oil before starting it? Naw, that wasn"t Joe"s job, Joe just drove it!
Moral of the story: Buy a tractor strong enough to handle hard work. Buy a lawn tractor to mow a lawn. Lawn--get it?
Buy a Garden tractor or larger to drag equipment around, and other work. Ya can"t send a boy out to do a man"s job!
 
Perhaps I'm wrong but I get the impression that you do not
understand the difference between a true Garden Tractor and a
Lawn Tractor.

Lawn tractors are designed expressly to cut grass but some of
them can also blow snow, blade snow and pull light lawn carts.
The components chosen to build lawn tractors are all "light
duty". The frames are usually stamped steel that are not
designed to handle the stress of being used on rough ground
that will cause them to flex and eventually crack to the point of
failure.

One of the weakest components is the hydrostatic rear axle units
which are often "factory sealed", meaning they cannot be
serviced. When they fail, the only option is to purchase a
complete trans-axle unit which is often worth far more than the
current value of the complete tractor in good running condition.

These machines are built to meet a certain "price-point" that is
normally LESS than $3000.00. True Garden Tractors will cost
$8000.00 and up, depending upon the options and attachments
selected.

I can give you more reasons why you should not buy a Cub Cadet
than reasons why you should. By and large, the Cub Cadet brand
is no longer considered to be a quality product and hasn't been
so since the 80's.

Cub Cadet is now just another brand name owned by MTD. At
one time, Cub Cadet was owned by International Harvester and
they turned out a high quality product. Today, the former quality
is apparently no longer there, so I would advise you to steer clear
of that brand. MTD/Cub Cadet no longer offers a Garden
Tractor. The last model that had that description was the 3000
Series but when it came to quality, it did not come close to that
of an X-700 Series Deere, Simplicity or Ingersoll 4000 Series.

I don't know what your budget is but one of the very best
bargains in the used garden tractor world are the Ingersoll 4016,
4018 and 4020 models. If they have a PS after those numbers,
then they have power steering. They can be had with a true CAT
0 three point hitch. Unlike most tractors, these are hydraulic
drive, not hydrostatic. They utilize a separate pump and motor
which makes repairs both user friendly and inexpensive by
comparison. Operation is quite similar to that of a hydrostatic
drive tractor. A single lever controls direction and ground speed.
The trans-axle has two ranges. One for work and one for travel.

The interchangeability of attachments is unparalleled by any
other brand. Hydraulic implement lift is standard. A rear
mounted hydraulic PTO valve can be added at any time which will
allow you to make use of certain implements made by Ingersoll
and formerly by J. I. Case who used to own the brand. The
quality is legendary as is the ease of working on them. Parts are
not a problem either as there are several dedicated dealers who
are eager to ship you anything you need the very next day.

One thing you will learn to love is the 16 inch rear tires instead
of the 12 inch rubber used by everyone else. The ride is quite
superior. The front and rear axles are made from cast steel. The
frames are welded together using structural steel. The mower
decks are also made from steel plate that is bent and then
welded together instead of being stamped in a punch press.

Mower decks come in 44, 48 and 60 inch cutting widths. The
Case and Ingersoll models meet your criteria of being "more
substantial and more tractor-like." All you need to do is to
spend some time discovering what they are all about and there
are several forums on the internet that are dedicated to them.
 
Why not buy an old farm tractor? I have a 1950 farmall C with a 6 ft woods belly mower and a 1953 ford Jubilee with a 6 ft rear woods finish mower. The Jubilee has 3 pt. I trim with 4 ft huskiee varniee. The Jubilee works nice for leveling, push snow with a 7 ft blade, 6ft disk, 2 bottom plow, 7 ft cultipacker. Both tractors have pto.

Why are they better? Well they are 60+ years old, still work, still get parts for them. Will last my life time.

If you want a cub, find you a 1950 cub. They still work, no 3 pt. can get a belly mower.

Don't expect a lawn mower to do what a farm tractor can do.

You will be surprised how cheap some of the old tractors are. Get one that has been rebuilt and has good rubber. The price of rubber is more than a tractor is worth.
George
 
For that I would look at something 20 horse or above. I have a Simplicity 9523 which is the same tractor as the Allis Chalmers 5020. Most companies sold tractors in this category. I would go with a clutch type tractor. My son has a John Deere but you will spend twice the money for those and not get more use out of it.
 

OK, I guess I left out some info. We do have a 35 HP Massey Ferguson farm tractor with a loader for the heavy stuff. The arena drag is amounts to a 4 X 8 chain link fence with some spikes to level the sand in the round pen. I thought the Cub Cadet's might work as I had read that they same drive train as the Cub farm tractor. I thought the Cub would do some of the lighter duty stuff pull a wagon full of manure, or firewood & maybe dump if it had hydraulics. I don't think the arena drag would be as stressful as say a rototiller that I see as an option on the Cub. The Cub would be primarily a lawnmower, I like the idea of the IH built machines as I think I could repair about anything on them and the are worth fixing when they break, & they were built before the government started regulating then to death!
So, I guess I'm looking to know narrow frame vs wide frame, are mower decks interchangeable, advantages to the different motors used. If I'm going to buy an older machine it will need some work, I just want to be sure I get the best one to put the time & money in to, I'm thinking it will be the last mower I will need to buy!
Thanks again for the help.
 
I had an old 1962 cub cadet 10 hp that was built like a tractor, clutch, 3 speed gear box, tractor type rear back tire.

Wasn't much of a lawn mower. Deck was always eating a bearing. Took 2 acres to turn.

Not sure they make tractors like that today.

People who are in to lawn mower tractor pulls like this old girl because of the tranny and rear axle.

I would avoid using most of today's mowers to pull with. I have a troy-built and pulling would eat the two belts that connect to the rear end. Those belts aren't cheap. Not too much fun to replace either.

IMHO, the best puller would be to find an old mower that used an actual gear box. However I haven't seen any sold in the past 25 years. I have an old craftsman with that tranny. Put tractor tires on it and use it to pull 2 atv type three ft disks. The worst thing is you may need to replace tranny belt, which is cheap and easy to do.

My 15 year old john deere GT275. It has a better hydrostatic tranny and tractor bar type rear tires. I have a 30 inch tiller, so hydrostatic is needed. It would make a good puller. Also have a 4 ft mower deck. Both are easy to take off and put on. Must use JD deck and JD tiller.

George
 
Best answer is it depends.

Personally I like the first Cub I ever bought the best - a 1450. The only one I might like better is the 1650 It has a hydraulic lift deck and a lift arm on the back. It also has an electric PTO clutch that has worked flawlessly for the 10 years I've owned it. If you go smaller than a 1450 the lift is manual. If you go older the PTO clutch is also manual.

If you go newer than than the Quietline the rear casting is probably aluminum. The KT17 2 cylinder models from the early 80s are nowhere near as reliable as the older 1 cylinder K321 or K341 - even if you get the later series II engines. And they cost an enormous amount of money to repair (think chevy small block overhaul prices).
 
I have An 1872 supercub and really like it. Yes, it
is post MTD buy out but it still has a lot of design
cues from IH. It also has many big tractor features
like power steering, power lift and individual
brakes. As somebody said, the engines are only good
for one round of about 1000 hrs in my opinion.
However because the wide frame design, they are easy
to graft a new power plant into them. I have a few
of the older ones too but for general chores like
you listed, I like my Super.
 
Such a loaded question--being an owner of many Cub Cadets, I prefer the 1872/2072/1912/1914 Super Cubs. You can put almost any mower deck on them and many parts interchange with older machines. Second choices would be 1811/1711/782. Almost any engine can be put into this chassis.
 
I will have to agree with Tom Arnold on the Case/ Ingersoll recommendation, Thes tractors are VERY simple to work on and will last a lifetime!
 
Neighbor had a covey of the older Cubs. He has a one cab and a snow blower. He has another with a blade on the front that he has had for 20 years or so. He has one with a belly mower that he pulls a cycle mower to mow around their pond. Your most likely looking the right way for what you are going to use it for.
 
That CC is a 1000 Series which is the entry level model equal to the L Series Deere's sold at many Big Box stores. It is NOT a garden tractor and therefore it isn't designed to pull much of anything let alone traverse rough terrain.

Now it might be a good buy for someone who just wants to mow their billiard table lawns but that's about it. Why the OP is fixated on Cub Cadets hasn't been explained. By and large, MTD makes low quality entry level products that are not designed to last long even when they are not subjected to rough service. I'm sure that there are a few exceptions to that statement but precious few.
 

Well I think I'm getting a little smarter, I think. There a few machines locally that I'm thinking of looking at they are all in the $600 to $1200 here's a rundown
Cubs:
1250 - $975 (less than 600 hours)
1450 - $600 (rebuilt motor)
106 (restored) - $1250 with snow blower, moldboard plow & cultivator

Ingersolls: 222 - $1000 (add says mint condition)

All have mower decks, and look good in the photos. Any suggestions on these machines? Anything I should pay attention to when I look at them? Any better than the others?

Thanks for all the help.
 
I got hold of a 224 Ingersoll with the 14hp engine and a 42 inch deck. What a WONDERFUL BEAST!!! I love it. It is like driving a tiny farm tractor. If you find a good one- grab it, fix it, and love it.
 
Cub Cadet 106 - is a garden tractor

made from 1969 to 1971

has a 10 HP Kohler K engine


Cub Cadet 1250 - is a garden tractor

made from 1974 to 1980

has a Kohler K 12 HP engine

Cub Cadet 1450 - is a garden tractor

made from 1974 to 1980

has a 14 HP Kohler K engine


Ingersoll 222 - is a garden tractor

made from 1969 to 1988

Has a 12 HP Kohler K engine.

The Ingersoll is the ONLY tractor that has hydraulic capabilities
and it likely has hydraulic implement lift. If you see the name
Ingersoll on the hood, then it must be 1985 or newer and
definitely has hydraulic implement lift. The serial number would
reveal a lot of information.

There are two words that I want to caution you about. The first
is the word "restored". That word is unbelievably subjective and
what one person considers as "restoration" can be far different
than what I would consider "restoration". A true restoration
means that the tractor was stripped to the bare frame and then
carefully put back together after going over every part and
repairing or replacing it. All parts must be brought back to their
original condition prior to being bolted back on and if they are
worn beyond redemption, then they must be replaced with new
parts.

Slapping a quick coat of paint on an old tractor by using some
rattle cans is not restoration but some guys think it is.

The second deadly word is "rebuilt" and anytime someone uses
that word to describe an engine, my immediate reaction is to say
"PROVE IT". Show me the invoices for all the parts purchased
along with the invoices from the machine shop that prove the
engine was bored oversize, the crank was turned, the camshaft
was profiled, the valve guides and seats were replaced, the valve
springs were tested and the head and block were machined flat.

Throwing a new set of rings onto an old piston is not rebuilding
the engine but a lot of guys think it is Take for instance the
1450 on sale for $600.00. A reputable machine shop would
charge at least $400.00 or more to do a proper rebuild on the
Kohler K engine, especially if they used genuine Kohler piston,
rings, con rod, bearings, seals, valves, valve guides, valve
springs etc.

As for the 1250 claiming to have less than 600 hours, that too
makes no sense. At the very least, that tractor is 33 years old
and at an average of 50 hours of use per year, it should have
1650 hours on it.

Whether the 222 Ingersoll is worth $1000.00 or not would
depend on its true condition AND if it has optional equipment
such as the rear PTO kit, a sleeve hitch, wheel weight kit, tire
chains or a Flow Control Kit. Without any of those options, then
my reaction is that it is over-priced.

In my opinion, you should be looking for a nice 444 Case that
has a 3 pt hitch and rear PTO kit on it. Engine condition is
everything because that is the most expensive item to
repair/rebuild. A compression test PLUS a Leak Down Test will
reveal how good an engine is. You are far better off paying a bit
more for a tractor with a really good engine in it than going with
a less expensive tractor that has a marginal engine on the verge
of needing a rebuild.

If you want me to look at the photos of the Ingersoll, send me an
e-mail. I will gladly give you my opinion and so will Dave Beiter
who is also a Case/Ingersoll enthusiast well-known to me. Now
is the time to do your research carefully so that you spend your
hard-earned cash wisely. All of the Cubs listed are ones made
when IH ran the show and the quality is there but they are all
manual transmission models.
 
I've rebuilt several K301 and K321 engines for less than $200. The rebuild kit with new valves, rod, rings, piston and gasket kit is about $110. The machine shop work is usually $30 or $50 to have the cylinder deglazed or bored and $20 more to have the crank turned.


The first one I did was a K321 in 2003 (the 1450 I use today) is probably close to 1000 hours without any issues.
 
The kit you are referring to is an aftermarket item and is not comprised of genuine OEM Kohler parts. There is a large difference in price. Some professional engine rebuilders refuse to gamble on aftermarket parts and insist on using only OEM Kohler parts. That fact will greatly affect the cost of rebuilding. Secondly, aftermarket kits sold on e-Bay do not include items such as valve guides, valve springs or main bearings.

Tell me. Are you able to examine a main bearing and determine how much life is left in it? I think not. Are you able to look at a valve spring and determine whether it is weak from age? Again, I think not. Springs must be measured and tested or valve performance will be affected.

Machine shop charges vary widely across the country. I don't know where the OP resides and neither do you. Therefore, what you paid to have work done is not germane to the issue here. The price I quoted was based upon a complete Kohler K being handed to a shop who would then have to dismantle that engine, degrease it completely, inspect all of the parts and then perform work that you do not even touch on. I don't consider what you did to be a proper rebuild. Did you put your engine onto a dynamometer when it was back together to see whether it made 14 HP or not?

Not likely. So you are just guessing as to how good your efforts were. But thanks for your reply because more than anything, you just illustrated the very point I was trying to make. The word "rebuilt" does not necessarily mean what you think it means.
 
Thank you Dan. My mistake and I apologize for it. Cub Cadets are not my long suit and I must rely on Google to help me out.

Both the 1250 and 1450 are hydrostatic machines, not gear type as I posted earlier. Therefore, they do have the capability of having hydraulic implement lift and hydraulic remotes by tapping into the charge pump of the hydrostatic unit.

However, that type of system can only handle hydraulic cylinders and not hydraulic motors like the system used on Case and Ingersoll tractors can. Whether this matters to the OP or not, only he can make that call.
 
Some people have good results with aftermarket parts. Others claim to have had failures. The problem here is that it is not possible to pinpoint the TRUE cause of the failure and perhaps the aftermarket kits get blamed out of convenience.

A couple of issues I did not address in my previous post are the governor gear and the balance gears. Both are known to fail on engines with high hours on them. If the governor gear fails, the engine can rev far beyond the 3600 RPM point and self-destruct as a result. Old balance gears can fracture and fall into the pan and make contact with the connecting rod. This can break off the dipper and that causes a lubrication failure that leads to engine failure. The gear can also end up causing catastrophic failure of internal moving parts which may lead to holes in the block, thus rendering it useless.

If an engine has 2000 hours on it, then every part in that engine has 2000 hours on it and is suspect. Experienced engine rebuilders have often learned the hard way about balance gears and governor gears. Just because someone gets away with not addressing those issues means that they were lucky. However, will that luck hold out until the next rebuild or will one of them come unglued and turn a good engine into scrap metal?
 
I lost my taste for "Original" Kohler parts when the local repair guy showed me a rod he got from Kohler. The "big end" that goes on the crank journal was so oversized it would not clear the piston skirt. While the box might be made in America the contents where not even up to Chinese standards - looked more like something the North Koreans might manufacture.
 
The 1250-1450-1650 are top notch tractors. If you
can find one that has not been run to death and
you take care of it it will last you a very long
time. As with about anything else that old there
are some problem areas that have shown themselves
as they age but are all easily fixed in the case
of that series CC. All a person has to do is find
the right web forum, join up and read and ask
questions. One thing that Cub Cadet has all over
everyone else is the price and availability of
attachments. All of the commonly wished for items
are easily obtainable and easy on the wallet
because they built a blue million of them and they
did not make drastic changes in mountings over the
years. Almost any CC attachment is easily adapted
across a broad line of models. All of the above
being said a person must take note of his
abilities. No older tractor is going to be
satisfactory for the mechanically challenged. This
is why they still build new ones and piles of
cheap older ones abound for scrounging old
motorheads like me, LOL
 
OK I took Tom"s advise and started looking at the Case / Ingersoll tractors, very impressive. I have found two locally.
One is a 222 said to be in mint condition about 600 hours asking $1000.
The other is a 3014 sr.# 14190860 also said to be in very good condition also about 600 hours asking $1350.
Both look very good in the photos, both have 48" mowers. I plan to look at these this week, any comments or recommendations would be appreciated.
Thanks
 
A couple of comments.

Not knowing where you reside makes it difficult for me to comment on the asking prices because those will vary widely from area to area. With no photos or additional information about the two tractors you have found, all I can see is that the asking prices are higher than the average.

Both models are the Lo Profile Series which have the same 12 inch rear rubber found on most other garden tractors. I really wish that you could find a 444 locally that you could see and try out. I think that once you get a chance to become acquainted with a High Wheel Case, you won't want anything else. Both the 200 and 400 Series tractors are very capable GT's and they are nearly identical when it comes to the parts used to build them. However, the High Wheel models have an extra 4 inches of ground clearance which comes in very handy at times and the ride is noticeably better.

The 222 has a 12 HP Kohler K engine and the 3014 will have either a 14 HP Kohler Magnum or a 14 HP Briggs Vanguard engine. The 3014 is a 1996. The newest that the 222 can be is 1988.

I am having a hard time buying into the idea that the 222 has 600 hours on it since Case never put hour meters on any of their models. Ingersoll didn't do so until about 1986 so perhaps the 222 is actually a mid to late 80's model. A tractor would have to lead a very sheltered life in order to have a mere 600 hours on it after 25 years. The average use is 50 hours per year and therefore 1200 hours would be expected. The 3014 is 17 years old and logically should have about 800 to 900 hours on it.

I am always leery of hour meters with low readings because there is no guarantee that the hour meter was not disconnected or replaced at some point. One must disregard the hour meter reading and instead, rely upon what your eyes and gut tells you during a slow and careful inspection of the tractor.

If you want to have a 3 point hitch at some point, then the 3014 is the tractor to choose. Case never made a 3 point for the 200 Series BUT.... the later hitch that was designed to be used on the 3000/4000/6000 models will work on a 200. Expect to pay $500.00 or more to buy that hitch as a used, separate item. This is why it is wiser to seek out a used tractor that already has a hitch on it because you often save money by doing so.

I think that you definitely should go and see those two tractors and test drive them, if only for the experience. Directly below the seat is a shift lever that changes the trans-axle from Low Range to High Range. There is Neutral in the mid-point and you often have to rock the tractor a bit to get the straight-cut gears to mesh. Drive the tractor in both ranges with the engine at full throttle so that you understand the difference in ground speeds.

Rear tires almost never wear out but front tires do. So take a look at the tread on the fronts. If the fronts look new, then they have been changed and that casts doubt on the claim of 600 hours. Check how much free play is in the steering wheel. A 600 hour tractor should still have fairly tight steering. Does the steering pull to one side. Take your hands of the wheel while driving on smooth, flat, level ground and see if the tractor continues to go straight.

Look at the tie rod between the two front wheels and the drag link that connects the right front wheel to the steering gear. Are the perfectly straight or are they bent? Stand beside each front wheel and look straight down to the front axle. Does the kingpin look to be vertical or is it bent to the rear at the bottom? If so, then the front axle is bent due to the front wheel slamming into something solid.

Faded paint, surface rust and peeling decals all indicate that the tractor has been left outside instead of being garaged. Check the wiring harness. Has it been cut and spliced? Do you see repairs to it? Open the hood. How clean is the area ? Look under the tractor and see if the area around the steering gear and rear end are reasonably clean. Look for signs of paint overspray or parts of the tractor that look freshly painted compared to other areas adjacent.

The 222 will have the trusty mechanical PTO clutch. It is actuated by a lever on the left side of the dash tower. If it is adjusted properly, you should have to use a fair bit of pressure to push it to the over-center point where it snaps into full engagement. Make sure that the mower deck is mounted to the tractor so you can check it out along with the clutch. The deck should be fairly quiet. It should come to a stop quickly once the PTO lever is pulled all the way back. If the belt continues to turn, then the clutch needs adjustment and possibly repair.

If the deck seems noisy, then it may need all of the spindle bearings to be replaced. Not a big deal but certainly not something that either of these high priced tractors should exhibit.

The 3014 has an electric clutch that is actuated by a switch on the left side of the dash. These clutches are not repairable. When they fail, you throw them away and install a new one at about $300.00.

The 222 will discharge grass to the left and the 3014 discharges grass to the right. This is because the engines are mounted opposite to one another in those years.

Check the ID plate on the 222 and write down the serial number. Look for an aluminum plate on the dash tower at knee level. That number will reveal the year.

If you can take photos from all four sides of each tractor and send them to me, I can comment further.

Good luck with your search. Look upon it as a part of self-education.
 
One more thing.

On the left side of the steering wheel is a lever. It controls direction and ground speed. Push the lever downward toward the dash initially and then ease it in a clock-wise direction to make the tractor travel forward.

The more you move the lever clock-wise, the faster the tractor will travel. To slow the tractor down, move the lever counter-clockwise back to neutral. The same procedure is used to reverse the tractor using the same lever. Push the lever downward initially and then rotate it counter-clockwise slowly. These tractors will go as fast in reverse as they do in forward so be careful.

On the right side of the steering wheel is another lever. This one controls the hydraulic implement lift. Springs make this lever return to neutral whenever the lever is released. To raise the implement you pull the lever downward. To lower the implement, you push the lever upward. If you were using a snowblower or utility blade, you might want those implements to move up and down without any interference from the tractor. This is called "float" and if you push the lever all the way up, you should feel it go past a detent which will hold the lever all the way up until you pull it back down.

Test the lift lever fully to make sure all aspects of it work properly.

The engine will not spin over unless the Travel Lever is in NEUTRAL and the PTO is disengaged. In other words, the PTO lever on the 222 must be pulled all the way back to you and the PTO switch on the 3014 must be in the OFF position.

Print these messages out and take them with you for review just before visiting each tractor.
 
Tom, I missed a 444 by two days, they were asking $1400 and it sold. I did noticed the wheels looked larger on that machine. Are there any other models other than the 444 that have the bigger wheels? I think your right the extra ground clearance would be useful.
Here are the links to the two tractors we were discussing.
Thanks

http://westernmass.craigslist.org/grd/4181542361.html

http://southcoast.craigslist.org/pts/4162309151.html
 
I went looking for the 222 and was unable to find it. I did find
the 3014 and was not terribly impressed with it. A well-cared
for tractor should not have peeling decals or need touch up if it
only has 600 hours on it.

I did see multiple listings for the same 444 that began life as a
200 Series and was converted. Do not touch something like this
with a ten foot pole. Conversions are done by ignorant people
that do not realize the true differences between the two series.

Aside from the 444 model, Case also made a 446 and a 448 that
were powered by 16 HP and 18 HP Onan flat twins. These are
excellent tractors providing you can find one with a low hour
engine. I was steering you toward a 444 because the K-321
Kohler engine is very inexpensive to rebuild whereas Onan's are
not.

I have given you a link to a 446 that may not be too far from you.
It does have the 3 point hitch but I do not see the rear PTO kit on
it. This one claims to have 750 hours on it and the condition
looks to be good enough to support those hours. It comes with
tire chains, the front weight kit and a utility blade.

In my opinion, tire chains are worth about 50 used, a really good
utility blade can be worth up to 400. The hitch is easily worth
400 to 500 currently. He talks about a front weight kit but no
photo. If he has the suitcase weight kit, then that will easily bring
300 to 450 by itself. If it is just a front weight box, then that's
worth about 80 if it is in good shape.

So right there, you have a possibility of 800 plus in optional
equipment if all is in good shape.

Providing the hours are true, then a 1987 Ingersoll 446 would be
worth 1200, especially in the Rhode Island/ upper Mass area.
Prices seem to be much higher in RI for some reason.

If the tractor checks out and is within your budget, then I'd offer
him 1800 cash on the spot. Cash in hand talks very load,
especially when you come with a trailer to take the package away
immediately.

At the very least, do a compression test on the Onan. Anything
above 90 PSI is OK. Over 100 is better, especially when both
cylinders are within 5 LBS of each other.
446
 
I just looked up that ad. He posted it 42 days ago for the same money. So, you maybe could do better on the price.
The problem with garden tractors for $2200 is, you can buy a farm tractor for less.
My brother has a 446. And, he loves it. I'd like to have one. But, I can't justify that kind of money when I can get a good GT for $500!

Joe
 
We are fairly recent Ingersol owners but those prices appear to be on the high side at a glance, of course depending on options and what comes with. We purchased a pretty nice low houred 4018 for $500 at auction, no options and just a 48" deck. If you check Tractorhouse web site under both Ingersol and Case you will usually find quite a few for sale. In my opinion you short yourself if you give up on other lines. Case/ Ingersol is not the only choice in quality garden tractors, a good choice, but far from the only one.

Anyway good luck with the search.
 
Butch,
As I stated previously, prices for these tractors vary widely across the continent. You are fortunate to live in a state where the prices are quite low. Those prices do not apply to Rhode Island or Maine.

The price for anything is set by how much a buyer will pay the seller on any given day. Seller's can ask whatever they want but in the end, they have to settle for what the buyer is willing to part with.

i don't think that the 446 is all that overpriced once you subtract out the commonly paid prices for all the options it has. The second important issue is whether or not the stated "hours" are correct. I would much rather pay another $500.00 for a low hour Onan powered tractor any day since the cost of doing a thorough rebuild is at least $1500.00.

A well-cared for Onan should last at least 2000 hours and if one pulls the engine at that point, it is possible to polish the crank throws, cross-hatch the bores, install new rings and lap the valves in to give new life to the engine. I call that preventative maintenance. Better that than waiting for something serious to go wrong.

Really good tractors that are close by are often the better bargain because you can easily spend $600.00 to have one shipped from the mid-west to the east coast. Even if you go and pick it up yourself, you still have to buy gas and pay for the wear and tear on your vehicle.

A $500.00 tractor in Ohio that costs $600.00 so ship is still an unknown quantity compared to a $1200.00 tractor that is local and can be inspected in person and tested.
 
Tom, I admit to not reading this thread in its entirety. I replied to his asking about models 222 and 3014. 446 apparently mentioned elsewhere is another animal. Sorry for the confusion. Our 4018 was a bargain (or so far appears to be) and possibly an outlier but factoring in bare tractor vs highly optioned is ??? as you said. For my purpose the 3 point carries exactly 0 value, others a lot.

Agreed that he should not even consider driving a long ways to purchase a common item like this, prices and location wer eprovided for educational purposes.

My best deals have always been units purchased from original owners who obviously took care of them, not fixer uppers, not dealer trade ins. Our 1650 CC came from an elderly original owner that recorded every oil change, every filter, every part purchased was written inside the front cover on the owners manual along with the date, time and cost of the annual trip to the dealer for inspection.It was covered up with a blanket in the garage. Rare? Yes but the deals are around it isnt the first time.
 
I agree with you entirely. Value is in the eye of the buyer. What good is a 3 point hitch if you will never make use of it? One of the nice things about the Case tractors is that hitches were optional and more often than not, will transfer to another model of another year.

Interchangeability of attachments is higher than any other brand of GT.

Hey..... we all wish we could find one-owner tractors like that Cub. I'm still waiting to find one. LOL
 
Well the search goes on. I looked at a 3012,small rear tires mower deck had been patched about 1200 hours on it asking $1000 dead battery so I couldn't hear it run. Dealer said come back tomorrow we'll charge the battery. I wasn't impressed!
I found a 444 very little info at this point other than not running no spark, not running $1000 firm. I did contact him and should have photos serial number and hours soon. So my question is how complicated is the electrical system in this machine? Do they have electronic ignition or do they have points & condensers? I believe if the engine were standing alone the lack of spark could be caused be only a few things, bad coil/coil wire, bad spark plug,bad electronic module or points & condenser. is there anything in the machine that could cause the lack of spark and did I miss anything.
Also what do you think of this machine and the deal on it? I'll send photos & info when I get it.
Thanks
 
The 444 model began in 1969 and continued until the end of the
1988 production year. During that period, many changes were
made to it. Most of the tractors came with Kohler K engines that
were fitted with points, condenser and coil ignition except for
1969 and 1970.

It may well be that in the latter couple of years, Ingersoll used
Kohler M engines with electronic ignition. The serial number of
the tractor will help determine which engine is in the tractor
under discussion.

$1000.00 for a non-running tractor is a steep price
UNLESS.....there are ample reasons to justify that number.
Normally, I would not pay more than $300.00 for a non-runner
with a deck but if it had a rear PTO kit, then that would increase
the value in my eyes by $150.00. If it had a sleeve hitch, then it
would be worth another $100.00. If it had a 3 point hitch
instead, then I would pay another $300.00.

Tire chains, wheel weights, Flow Control Valve kit, a Utility Blade
and a Snowcaster would all increase the value because all of
these items could be sold individually later on to recover what
was spent.

The problem with a non-running tractor is that you cannot run
hear it run, see if there is smoke in the exhaust or listen for
noises that should not be there. I think that the Seller has a lot
of nerve asking that kind of money for a basic tractor with deck.
If he feels that it is truly worth that much, then HE should spend
whatever it takes to get it running. For all anyone knows, it has
a broken rod and he's just looking for a sucker to pay his price.

Let's see the photos and all the info.
 
Tom, is right on the money as far as values, I just picked up an Ingersoll 4014 (newer version of the 444) and it has the M14 Kohler in it with the electronic ignition. I am not certain if they used the M series prior to 1989 though.. well, I paid $500 for a good running 4014 with blade, deck and ag tires.. I would keep looking, the right tractor is out there just waiting for ya! I will keep lurking on this forum if you have any other questions!
Dave
 

Craig's list had a 446 in Dracut and a 442 in Biddeford I think both were $1200 with attachments.
I think I'd prefer the 442 with a single cylinder Kohler over the twin Onan. But, the 446 had a tiller.

Joe
 
(quoted from post at 19:00:46 11/15/13)
Craig's list had a 446 in Dracut and a 442 in Biddeford I think both were $1200 with attachments.
I think I'd prefer the 442 with a single cylinder Kohler over the twin Onan. But, the 446 had a tiller.

Joe

Found the one in Biddiford, couldn't find the one in Dracut, could you post the link?
Thanks
 
(quoted from post at 20:33:26 11/15/13)
(quoted from post at 19:00:46 11/15/13)
Craig's list had a 446 in Dracut and a 442 in Biddeford I think both were $1200 with attachments.
I think I'd prefer the 442 with a single cylinder Kohler over the twin Onan. But, the 446 had a tiller.

Joe

Found the one in Biddiford, couldn't find the one in Dracut, could you post the link?
Thanks[/

Its listed in the New Hampshire Craigslist.

Have 1986 tractor with augar. Runs good mower deck needs work . This thing is powerful. Could use new seat Email me. Mark
Location: dracut
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Posting ID: 4188140151 Posted: 2013-11-12, 6:53PM EST email to a friend
Try; 4188140151
If that dosn't work, search for "Case 446 tractor" under farm and garden.
Sorry, I'm not good at posting links!

Joe
 
At $1200.00 asking, this one could be the bargain you have been
waiting for.

The rear PTO kits bring $200 on e-Bay

The 3 pt hitches bring $400 or more

The F-26 Sleeve Hitch Adapter bring $150

The rototiller will bring $400 on its own.

So, not including the tractor and deck, there is $1150 in optional
equipment.

No matter what condition the 1985 446 and deck are in, they are
certainly worth the additional $50.00.

If this one is still around, you should check it out......FAST.
Dracut 446
 
(quoted from post at 06:33:38 11/16/13) At $1200.00 asking, this one could be the bargain you have been
waiting for.

The rear PTO kits bring $200 on e-Bay

The 3 pt hitches bring $400 or more

The F-26 Sleeve Hitch Adapter bring $150

The rototiller will bring $400 on its own.

So, not including the tractor and deck, there is $1150 in optional
equipment.

No matter what condition the 1985 446 and deck are in, they are
certainly worth the additional $50.00.

If this one is still around, you should check it out......FAST.
Dracut 446

I have more info on the 444 that has no spark, it ran last month, sat and the battery went dead, battery was charged but machine would not start, had no spark. nothing else done. The machine has a three point hitch a front snow blade has hydraulics front and rear, machine was repainted mower deck has not been on it in last 5 years, that's how long this owner has had it. He only used it a few times a year to pull a lawn sweeper, was given to him in lieu of of payment for work done.
Anyone know what thew electrical system on this motor is like if it had to be replaced? The serial # is 1411475* anyone know what model year that translates to?
I also have an email off to the person with the 446 in Dracut, waiting to hear back on that one, the Onan motor is a little scary compare to the Kohler single cylinder. Sounds like it would be expensive to repair.
I hope to look at these soon.
Any comments would be appreciated
Thanks
 
You are missing one digit in the PIN but my guess is that it is a
1988, the last year of manufacture for the 444's.

As I have said previously, a used 3 pt hitch will easily bring
$400.00 on e-Bay, if not more. A rear PTO commands $200.00
on most days. A decent Utility Blade will bring $200.00 to
$400.00.

Case used Kohler K engines and Ingersoll kept on using them
until production of the 200 and 400 Series ended in 1988. In
other words, the 444 you are looking at should have a K engine
with points, condenser and coil. All are suspect when there is no
spark but none of them are expensive to replace.

The fact that the tractor ran last month is meaningless. Unless it
is running when you come to view it, you cannot assess the PTO
clutch or any aspect of the engine. Perhaps the charging system
isn't working. Perhaps the engine is so tired it must be rebuilt
immediately. Perhaps it has a broken rod.

Sellers who are too lazy to get their tractor into running shape
should not be rewarded with the same sort of money a running
tractor would garner. A battery that is allowed to go dead and
sit in that state, is a damaged battery that is on its way out. Even
if it will take a charge, it will not charge to the same level as a
new one.

Case tractors did not come with FRONT hydraulics but that is not
to say that a previous owner couldn't have added them.
 

Well the person with the 446 in Dracut got back to me tonight, it's sold so I'm still looking!! I didn't look at the no running 444 yet maybe next weekend, the seller isn't available during the week.
So the search goes on.
Thanks All I'll keep you posted!
 

Can anyone tell me the difference between the High wheel Case ? Ingersoll and the small wheel machine? Is it just the wheels, or is there something different about the frame? Are the decks and other attachments the same?
What happens if you change the wheels on a small wheel machine?
Thanks
 
Trying to convert a Lo Pro to a Hi Wheeler is an exercise in
futility. Do not even attempt it. All you will do is destroy two
tractors and end up with garbage that has little to no value.

It is more than just the back wheels. The axle shafts, drive
motor, front axle, front spindles, tie rod, drag link, fenders,
implement lift etc are all different. Even the basic frames are
different due to the ground clearance.

Essentially the 38, 44 and 48 decks are interchangeable between
the two Series providing you have the correct lift links that
connect the rear of the deck to the implement lift. However, the
38" deck is not wide enough for the Hi Wheel models and the 48"
deck is a bad choice on the ten HP 200's due to lack of HP to
spin it while cutting thick or wet grass.

Just keep searching for a 444. Eventually you will spot one that
was listed minutes earlier and you can jump on it before anyone
else does.
 
Why not consider the Bolens Large Frame tractors?

Specifically the 2-cyl ones like the 1886, HT18, HT20, and HT23? They used the Kohler K482, K532, and K582 engines, which are pretty much bullet proof.

All have 2 spool hydraulics, FOOT CONTROLLED hydrostatic trans, a wide assortment of attachments, 3-pt available, mower decks, tillers, etc. are all PTO shaft driven, and parts, if needed, aren't all that hard to find.

Some may argue, but they were some of, if not the best GTs ever built.

This one, if not too far from you, would do everything you want. The only drawback is that it doesn't have a mower deck, but those are not all that hard to find.

http://boston.craigslist.org/nwb/grd/4210022616.html
 

Say Tom,
What do you think of those Bolens machines? Do they have the ground clearance, sounds like they have the power!
 
The older Bolens tractors that were made before MTD got ahold
of the company were darn good tractors. i do not profess to be
any sort of expert on the breed but apparently they are divided
into Small Frame and Large Frame models, with the Large Frame
units being the most desirable when it comes to working the
land.

While I am firmly in the Case, Ingersoll camp.... I cannot ignore
some of the other brands that also produced some very capable
machinery. There are quite a number of Bolens tractors out
there that are still giving stellar service every day. As mentioned,
the one on offer is a large frame model and presumably it is
priced OK.

When searching for a suitable tractor, you should keep all of your
options open. Spending some time on one of the Bolen's forums
such as My Tractor Forum would yield more information that
could help you decide which way to go. If ground clearance is a
big issue for you, then that is one factor you should compare
between the Case Big Wheel models and any other contender.
Very few garden tractors come with 16 inch rear rubber and that
gives them an edge when ground clearance is a priority.

Realistically, any garden tractor that has 12 inch rear rubber is
going to have less ground clearance than that of a Case/Ingersoll
Big Wheel model. Pretty much any tractor can be fitted with AG
tires and then weighted down to find good traction but there is
no way to create extra ground clearance.
 
Tom is right about the Tube Frame vs. Large frames for 'heavier' work', but the higher Hp. tube frames like the H14 and H16 are danged capable as well.

You wouldn't go wrong with the Case, Ingersoll tractors either. It's just seems that the Bolens are a lot easier to find.

MTF is a pretty decent forum, and I'm a member there, but I find that the GTTalk forums are a lot more active, and have some really good, friendly folks with a lot of GT knowledge.

Here's a link to the Bolens sub-forum:

http://gardentractortalk.com/forums/forum/4-bolens/

They also have sub-forums for most of the other older GTs as well.
 

HI guy's,
Still looking at garden tractors, found this Simplicity looks like a rugger machine but did not find much info on this model. Any comments, ideas or thoughts on this one?
Thanks

http://capecod.craigslist.org/grd/4239673160.html
 
I bought my 1986 446 about 3 years ago. I gave $400 for it with a 48" deck. I have put about $400 in parts in it including tires and it has been a very solid performer.Like a lot of folks I think low range should be a little faster. Another thing to determine when considering a Case/Ingersoll is whether or not it has a built-in or add on holding valve. Tom can better explain how to determine this but I believe anything with Ingersoll on it will have the holding feature built in to the travel control valve. I hear that driving downhill without a holding valve can become exciting if a certain technique is not followed. I'm not monogamous when it comes to GT brands. A couple of months ago I was shopping for a Cub diesel when I came across a JD 455 diesel. I gave $1500 for it. Deals are out there. You have to be diligent in searching CL and educate yourself on the various models you may be interested in. Be prepared to travel with cash in hand. I was also looking for a Ingersoll 4118D but they are kinda scarce. They have a 18hp 3 cylinder Perkins diesel in them. This is a good time of year to get a bargain on a garden tractor!
 
(quoted from post at 07:43:09 12/12/13)
HI guy's,
Still looking at garden tractors, found this Simplicity looks like a rugger machine but did not find much info on this model. Any comments, ideas or thoughts on this one?
Thanks

http://capecod.craigslist.org/grd/4239673160.html

Must have been a good deal. The posting has been deleted.
What model was it?

Joe
 

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