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Fordson Tractors Discussion Forum

1955 Major water getting into engine oil

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Gord1955

01-30-2018 21:03:41




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Must have just happened today, oil level got real high but was not white? Head gasket or possibly eaten out sleeve area???? Didn't need this to happen right about now, funny thing it starts and runs great.




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Gord1955

02-09-2018 15:15:08




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 01-30-2018 21:03:41  
[img]



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as you can see from the photo part of the upper lip for the #4 liner has been eaten away, still lots of grove to hold the O ring but for how long unless there is a good way to safely fix it and stop it I think buying a top end rebuild kit is Not....That is why I have been undecided as to use the newer block that needs a pushrod with the larger wrist pin and journal reground or replace crank...that block is like new inside.... the crank in the 55 Major is in good shape too.

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Gord1955

02-07-2018 15:57:49




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 01-30-2018 21:03:41  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see [b]been looking at both options, oring area#4 on the 55 is usable but still a lot of rust around it but still has its oring grove but not great - it gets better as you move forward, the other new major or whatever it is is like new inside, so undecided which way to go.[/b]



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derwen1959

02-07-2018 15:37:00




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 01-30-2018 21:03:41  
can you obtain new liners?



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Gord1955

02-07-2018 09:39:34




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 01-30-2018 21:03:41  
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Gord1955

02-07-2018 09:34:49




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 01-30-2018 21:03:41  
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don't know if this helps id the newer engine as to the year but the block serial numbers aree1addn6015 with a t4 underneath,
J2 is on the head, simmes injector pump is the same as my 55



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Gord1955

02-06-2018 16:05:53




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 01-30-2018 21:03:41  
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P.S. Vancouver Island B.C. :)



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Gord1955

02-06-2018 14:41:15




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 01-30-2018 21:03:41  
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\the super major engine doesnt have the flame ring on the top that I noticed when I pulled one, looked like it was just put in, no rust and in great shape...all 4 sit about 4 thou proud of the block which I read they are supposed to, the crank in the 55 Major is in good shape and all the numbers read right except for the last letter which is supposed to end in an F and mine in the 55 ends in a D ??? trying for hours to get my 3rd liner out of the 55 and it don't want to budge...the other 2 came out not to bad but this one %$&%#@#. Just weighing my options on what way to go...so fare the super major is winning....If my 55 grank fits then all I need is a super major rod and the we are underway with all the big parts and we will go from there.

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robert major

02-07-2018 08:50:03




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 02-06-2018 14:41:15  
Hi Gord these old majors start getting complicated with ford updates and mix and match parts over the last years of swapping stuff to keep them going( like you are thinking of doing). the later sleeves flame ring is a raised ring round the sleeve about 1/4 wide and a 1/16 tall thats on the top face of the sleeve. do you have that raised ring or just a smooth top with the flange that stops the liner falling through the block. There are several types of diesel cranks, they will all fit in the block but the timing gears or crank structure where altered, and some had different sized pegs for locating the flywheel. To be honest pictures would start to help some, I'm not working with these things like I used to and having to dig through my memory as to whats what to figure out what you might have that I can't see or remember the exact change years. Things like head porting changed in production( needing different intake/exhaust manifolds) and the pump mountings did to, with vacuum and mechanical governed pumps( also different intake again) on the supers/5000 diesel so you might have the old style head on the 55 and the new style head/ manifolds on the super that don't fit if they are not on the motor you are going to use. pump mounting bolts could be different to, again I can't remember whats what there,for bolt holes on one to the other. oh by the way the oil pan on a super and 55 is different to. I think 55 is the short oil pump with no pressure relief on it thats located in the timing case, and the super is the pump with a relief valve built in to the pump. your sump won't fit the super as the part where the pump fits isn't deep enough to bolt on over the oil pump with the relief valve on. Also the pin size for the wishbone is not the same either a supers bigger. Regards Robert

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Gord1955

02-04-2018 16:18:20




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 01-30-2018 21:03:41  
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Will check them out , thanks



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JLMac

02-04-2018 14:23:54




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 01-30-2018 21:03:41  
I've had good luck ordering parts from Agriline, reasonable shipping costs.
https://www.agrilineproducts.com/parts.html?_=Ford_and_Fordson__Fordson__Super_Major



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MJ in the UK

02-05-2018 04:37:37




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to JLMac, 02-04-2018 14:23:54  
DO NOT BUY FROM AGRILINE the parts do not fit and they will not reinburse you . I am a agricultral engineer heare in the UK and have several faulty parts from them.
They are a group of young lads who do not know what they are doing. For pistons and liners I use Vapormatic or Sparex. MJ



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Gord1955

02-04-2018 08:41:18




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 01-30-2018 21:03:41  
Got it all apart and pulled 2 liners, rust hole in one of them and the second one not too far behind, O ring area looks good - unfortunately super major liners will not fit, too bad the other engine I have, the super major looks like new inside but one journal is no good, not sure what direction to go at this point, liners and pistons for the major or replace the crank in the newer engine which overall is in much better shape, might have a line on another super major engine and will know in a few days, like to order parts from this site but they say they only ship US only... I'm in western Canada.

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robert major

02-05-2018 08:09:45




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 02-04-2018 08:41:18  
Hi Gord where abouts in western Canada are you? Do you have a dealer close to you that sells A&I agricultural parts. I'm in Manitoba and use Harvest salvage In Brandon. All the parts are listed online with prices and are usually good quality they are Vapormatic mostly.

I pay online listed price plus shipping. some A&I dealers load the prices more than online. Our JD dealers will sell you a $350 A&I part for over $700. I run a repair shop and found that out when a customer wanted to buy parts himself through our local Deere dealer, so be careful.. I guess your super engine is the later one with the 2 O rings one bottom and the other at the top. or is your engine one that doesn't have the flame ring on top of the liner like the later ones do?. Regards Robert

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Gord1955

02-02-2018 16:08:48




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 01-30-2018 21:03:41  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see



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Gord1955

02-01-2018 19:45:34




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 01-30-2018 21:03:41  
pan off and water passing liner in #4, pulled the piston and now the liner....looking at the piston don't have a lot of hope for this one- scored pretty bad even though the cylinder isn't, find out what shape the block is in shortly when I pull the liner, - don't plan on selling this one so if we have to sink a little money into it if it is worth it I will if not might have a line on another engine.

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robert major

02-02-2018 00:02:43




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 02-01-2018 19:45:34  
hi if the blocks ok rebuild what you got if you aren't planning on getting "divorced" from the old girl anytime soon. If another motors sat around you could find you get issues with the sealing rings again right away, or sometime further down the line. Unless you know somebody rebuilt the motor recently and did it properly.

I Got blue blood in my system as my family history is farming with the Dagenham Fordsons back in the Uk I remember the last one leaving the farm in about 1979 or so,and our family history is originally Essex to on my Dads side. I got a pile of Fordson Majors here in my collection in Canada. I'd bankrupt my self if I restored all of them to like new L.O.L. I got a last year 5000 diesel here we still use to cut grass with. I rebuilt the motor in it about 10 years ago though.Dad drives it and thinks about the good old days farming with them !.

Regards Robert

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Gord1955

02-01-2018 14:31:11




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 01-30-2018 21:03:41  
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yup, filled it with some coolant and yes it is leaking ----as a last attempt to see weather it is worth fixing this engine or not will pull the pan and remove #3 piston and pull a liner to see how bad it is, have another engine with one bad journal but might be the lesser of 2 evils.



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Gord1955

02-01-2018 07:59:37




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 01-30-2018 21:03:41  

For what it's worth I will be pullin the pan, going to putting a new timing cover gasket in anyway so might as well pull the pan while I'm at it- probably years of sludge needed to be cleaned out anyway.



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Gord1955

02-01-2018 07:50:01




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 01-30-2018 21:03:41  
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Head is off and all the liners look good and sealed tight, head gasket looked a little iffy, water was getting into one cylinder # 3 but everything looks good so far, will do another inspection today - there is a little oil passage between 2&3 on right hand side- slight recess, is there something supposed to go in it? there was nothing? and is there anyway to thoroughly check liners like a pressure test to really make sure that the head gasket was at fault? Thanks everyone for your help on this, and your right, the dealer is out to lunch, pretty obvious if you can buy liners it has liners.

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robert major

02-01-2018 11:12:49




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 02-01-2018 07:50:01  
Hi yes that recess is supposed to have a rubber sealing ring in there, sometimes they are missing from a previous repair or fall out and you didn't notice when you took it apart. Hopefully a new one comes with the gasket kit you will buy to get the other gaskets you are changing, the front crank seal is another place they leak the seal goes hard and cuts a groove in the boss on the front pulley. Hopefully the rear seals not leaking to it's a 2 piece rope seal and the motor has to come out to change the top part.

You won't tell anything much from looking at the tops of the liners as to being sealed water tight. thats why I said oil pan first really to test it, as now you really should put it back together to pressure test the O rings properly, or just do the head and fill it up with coolant and hope you fixed it. either way now you could be chasing your tail fixing it.

sometimes filling the coolant jacket might be enough to see it, or you may see rust marks in the block with the pan off on the outside of the sleeve where it pokes through. are you sure that water didn't get in there when you pulled the head it does happen sometimes, as it's odd you got a big amount of water in the pan and maybe didn't notice other symptoms first.

pulling that pans a fun job, as it's real heavy cast iron so be careful and find the "hidden bolts" you might easily not see up behind the frame rails at the back and up in the front I think there is one or 2 down a deep hole you might miss, you might have to slack the other bell housing bolts to drop the pan to. it's been a while since I did one, and i can't remember if it pinches tight between the bell housing and the front plate. the wish bone has to come off to or remove the axle if the bolts dont come out. I've had them where the bolts and pivot pin is seized and the whole front casting had to come off with the axle.

I have an expensive pressure test kit here as I do quite a few diagnostic tests on tractors with the same type of problems. you can do it with a few psi from a compressor (like 15 or less so you don't stuff the rad first ) in through the overflow pipe outlet with the rad cap on. most of the majors I see don't have a pressure cap, if yours does the oil filler cap will fit on instead to seal the rad filler while you are doing it. Sadly these old majors are like other old tractors now one problem leads to a whole world of headaches, Lots of them are running with worn out cranks, and little oil pressure. Hopefully yours isn't one and you find the cranks worn and needs new bearings if you have to pull any caps. They are a tractor thats not worth fixing unless it has huge sentimental value, or you want to spend money you will never get back selling it.

Regards Robert

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Gord1955

01-31-2018 09:55:19




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 01-30-2018 21:03:41  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Definitely water, rad was really down and when I drained the engine a lot of water came out with the oil....just talking to our local parts dealer and he claims the 55 does not have liners, just a straight bore, hopefully he's right and might be able to get away with just a head gasket, find out later today when I take the head off if he is right.

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derwen1959

01-31-2018 18:20:32




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 01-31-2018 09:55:19  
be careful when ordering new liners as I believe there are different sizes depending on year of manufacture



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robert major

01-31-2018 12:42:20




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 01-31-2018 09:55:19  
Hi your dealer doesn't know what he's talking about, your motor has wet sleeves every major from the 1952 first "new" style gas and diesel 220 motor like yours including the Ford 5000 diesel as it was badged in North America for 2 years does . The next generation 6X &Y world wide 1000 series are bored blocks, the gas E27N before your style major was to, the perkins conversion ones had a dry sleeve also.

Chances are your liner seal ring or rings have let go or the block groove is corroded out.
That is very common on those engines, Ive seen quite a few over the years. The odd one has dropped a sleeve or cracked one to, but never seen one go porouse like the later 0000 series blocks do. yes they will blow head gaskets but usually there are other symptoms like it blows water, runs hot, don't run right, or won't start with water hydro locking a cylinder, or burns water when it starts.

If it was mine I'd pull the pan put more water in, and see if you can see where it's leaking out. once the heads off and you maybe find it wasn't that unless you can see something leaking under the rocker cover first, you have a job to get water in and pressure the system if you need to find the leak in the block. If it's one ring leaking you should really pull all the sleeves as the others are probably bad to, then hope you don't find its the blocks corroded real bad. That job can become the end of the tractor or a money pit real quick sadly. Regards Robert

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jdv

01-31-2018 08:51:09




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 Re: 1955 Major water getting into engine oil in reply to Gord1955, 01-30-2018 21:03:41  
Is it fuel? Possibly the diaphram in the lift pump? After it sits overnite unscrew the oil drain plug a little to see if antifreeze drips out, can also smell the oil on the dipstick to see if itís diesel or gas if itís a gas engine.



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