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Discussion Forum

Model F & Model N parts interchangeability?

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REPO

08-21-2010 19:49:23
205.234.49.45



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As in my previous post I am looking at buying a Model F. I have now also found a Model N in the middle of a restoration. Apparently, the engine is all apart with a fresh crankshaft and main bearings, 2 new sleeves installed, etc. Are the engines the same between the both? What parts are interchangable between the 2? Is one more desirable than the other? The Model N isn't nearly as complete as the Model F I am also wanting to buy.

As usual, any help on this topic would be greatly appreciated!!

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REPO

08-24-2010 07:02:52
205.206.215.65



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 Re: Model F Model N parts interchangeability? in reply to REPO, 08-21-2010 19:49:23  
WOW! Thats a ton of great information right there! If I were to restore the "F", I would rather keep it as original as possible, as it appears to be fairly stock and unmolested at this point. Does anything else jump out at you as to the originalitly of it, or missing items? I also have pictures of the operating station if that helps at all.

I am really on the fence right now. Do I get a seized older Fordson with steel wheels that I wouldn't actually be able to drive around much or on pavement, or do I jump up a few years and get a JD Model D that I have also found, that is in amazing shape and has been stored indoors nearly all of its life! (rubber tires, etc)

Too many choices!

(p.s. I also know of a sweet Cockshutt 30 that is in amazing shape as well!)

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SteveWelker

08-24-2010 12:21:48
74.93.122.41



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 Re: Model F Model N parts interchangeability? in reply to REPO, 08-24-2010 07:02:52  
As far as Fordsons go, this one is very original. I do not see anything that would be a wrong year part for a '25/'26 Fordson. All I can see that is missing is the coil box lid (availible new), Coils (availible new), throttle linkage, and step across fender brackets (same as Model T running truck board). The fan looks to be an after market one with an internal governor, but missing the linkage. There is also some bracket above the timer that may have also been from some type of other aftermarket governor.
One thing to take a close look at is behind the coil box. Looking at the pictures I think I may see a crack in the block, its hard to tell. This was a very common area for the Fordson blocks to crack. These can be welded, but detracts from the price somewhat. It is a definite plus to have the complete manifold and vaporizor setup, although it is a Holley 295 that can be somewhat tricky to keep running good.
Being stuck does not scare me, many times it is just the valves that are stuck. But any old Fordson is a gamble, as one with poor bearings may cost more than it is worth to have it rebabbited.
As far as going with steel wheels, I love steel as it makes it look alot older. And they tend to stand out at shows today. I was at 2 small shows this year where my Fordson was the only tractor on steel. As for an investment, the John Deere D will always be worth more, but never as cool (at least in my baised opinion).
-Steve

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SteveWelker

08-24-2010 05:31:45
74.93.122.41



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 Re: Model F Model N parts interchangeability? in reply to REPO, 08-21-2010 19:49:23  
Yes, a Model N engine will bolt to the Model F, but it is not that simple.
First from the pictures in your earlier post, the F is a late 1925/early 1926 and is indeed very original. I can even see the original style rolled fuel line with a seam! I can tell the year by a couple features, Mag kill switch on dash, flush plug head w/o bosses for plug wire holder, Holley 295, Rolled lip front wheels, Rear wheels drilled for both left and right cleats.
A few main problems/issues to install the N engine. First, if you intend to use the N head and water pump, you should also use the N radiator or at least the side castings, as the N fan is in a different location and the cutouts in the radiator sides are different. You could use the F radiator if you use the F head on the N motor w/o the water pump, but the '25/'26 head does not match the water oppenings of the N block exactly. I have seen them used but they can leak. A '27/'28 F head (p/n F133C or F133D) will match the N block exactly. Second you will need to use the N style front cover as it is made for the Mag and governor. If this is the English N front cover with the bolt pattern for the rowcrop pedistal, you can use you F front axle, If it is the Irish/English N front cover with the long axle support, you will need the dipped Irish front axle to keep the tractor level. Third, because the N engine has the 'dropped' manifold ports, the throttle linkage will not line up with the hole in the '25/'26 F dash. A '27/'28 F dash will work as these were also dropped port engine, but with the F dash you can not use the N governor without cutting a hole in the dash for the pull style throttle. If you have an Irish N dash this will also work and allow the use of the N governor. An english N dash has a long steering column, and would require the rear seating position and also the English rear housing with the clutch behind the axle.
This is all probally very confusing, but what I am trying to get at, is it complicated, and unless you been around these fordsons for years, you will run into some problems with this swap.
This all being said if I was buying these 2 tractors (Complete non-running F, good N motor) this is what I would do. Take the Good N internals and put them in the F block. The N valves are a larger stem size which would alow the F guides to be opened up, and the N pistons are an 1/8" bigger bore which would allow a rusted block to be rebored and cleaned up. I would even use the N Crank and Rods if they were in nicer shape. In the end you would have an original looking tractor that is worth more than a 'half-breed' F/N. Good luck, if you have any questions let me know.
-Steve

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SteveWelker

08-24-2010 06:42:40
74.93.122.41



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 Re: Model F Model N parts interchangeability? in reply to SteveWelker, 08-24-2010 05:31:45  
One added note. Any N model will be rarer than a '25/'26 F here in the USA. They made 174,470 model F's in just the 2 years 1925 & 1926. The Irish N models are very rare as they had a very low production, only a little over 28,000 in 3 years. They made 61,760 English model N's over the 7 years they they were imported to the USA. These are total production numbers on the model N's, but a fairly low percentage of these were actually imported to the USA, most stayed on the other side of the pond. So you may consider restoring the N. Or get both and have one of each! When colecting old fordsons, its hard to have just one!
-Steve

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mike farmer

08-24-2010 02:07:43
86.23.80.115



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 Re: Model F Model N parts interchangeability? in reply to REPO, 08-21-2010 19:49:23  
I agree that a lot of parts are interchangeable and the engine will go in. I would say that maybe you should check the facts where you say "had two new sleeves fitted" It has always been my understanding that you could not re-sleeve these engine I seriously hope you have not been misinformed. They could only be rebored to a final bore size 060" oversize. I know resleeving is NOW being done but very expensive here in England. Very best of luck. MTF

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REPO

08-23-2010 15:07:47
205.206.215.65



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 Re: Model F & Model N parts interchangeability? in reply to REPO, 08-21-2010 19:49:23  
So then I could pick up the engine out of the N, and replace the seized F engine!



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cdmn

08-22-2010 21:27:24
66.228.231.244



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 Re: Model F Model N parts interchangeability? in reply to REPO, 08-21-2010 19:49:23  
The Model N has many improvements. Magneto, governor, water pump, etc. The engines are similar and the N engine can be put into an F. In fact the basic engine is the same until 1952. The Model E27N added a starter in addition to the N's improvements.

The N was legitimately equipped with rubber tires as an option. I doubt that the F was, except maybe hard tires in the industrials. The N has quite an attractive color scheme. For the most part, the F was made in the USA. The N was only made in Ireland and England. Close copies were made in Russia.

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