Relay question 1972 Ford 5000 GASSER

The Starter Relay gets pretty hot when cranking. Is this normal?

I have one wire prolly from the key ignition and the Positive battery cable on one side of the relay with the negative cable on the other. There are other wires on the back side but haven't been able to trace them yet.

If I don't separate the from the Positive battery cable from the Key Ignition wire with a spacer of some sort - even a washer - it shoots sparks and gets unusually hot.

I don't think this is normal . Can anyone offer any insight? Thanks in advance.
R

It sounds like you have both battery cables on the starter relay. If true, it's no wonder there is smoke coming out of it. Ever laid a wrench
across both battery terminals? You're basically doing the same thing.

The positive battery cable goes to one end of the relay, and the cable going to the positive side of the starter post goes to the other side
of the relay. The negative terminal goes to the block.

One more thing: replace the relay. I'm guessing you let most of the smoke out of it.

I was thinking he mistook the cable going from the solenoid to the starter as the negative?
His post is a little hard to decipher...

If I read you right...

The heat is usually caused from dirty connections. They cause the massive heat build up while your cranking you tractor. This also means there is a huge loss of current on the relay.

SO... disconnect the battery for safety.. then take each connection loose, one at a time, clean them shiny and bright, both the cable ends and the lugs, and the nuts and washers. Tighten snugly but dont strip out the threads on the lugs. Then reconnect the battery and re check... This solenoid is a special one that also feeds the coil during cranking off the second small lug, so if you replace it, you must get the correct solenoid. A good clean connection will not heat up during use. A dirty connection will burn your fingers off.

Thank you all for your responses and for forgiving me my inadequacies. I have posted a couple of pics that will, I hope, help my explanation. Your responses so far are a great help even though I have given inaccurate info.

Just got in from playing with the wiring. All the connections got a good cleaning with wire brush on a rotary tool - shiney!

Still no joy. This one wire that I think comes from the Key/Ignition, and connected to the positive side of the relay with the positive battery cable lights up when I engage the starter. It's fine when I just turn the key to the ON position but when I engage the starter, it gets hot to the point of glowing red. Without it connected, I get nothing, no fuel pump and no engagement.

Bare in mind that I have been running this tractor with this wiring for a couple of years now. So why all of a sudden am I having this issue.

Is there an electrical gizmo up under the IP that can go funky?

Anyway the next step is trace the wires and see what's up.

I hate electrical problems....like chasing a ghost. :shock:

I agree, I wasn't certain of what he was trying to say either. But when he mentioned shooting sparks and getting very hot, it sounded like a dead short to me.

If I'm following correctly
THAT wire... does feed the ignition switch and also the goes to the voltage regulator...

As to why it would turn red and get hot..

One.. the battery cable (big one has a bad connection where is touches the lug and this cable and is making the lug carry too much current between the big wire and the lug... and turn red? Needs to be cleaned at the lug again. Place big wire on lug first and then little wire, then lockwasher and nut...

two. When your activate the start position, you have a short in the thermostart circut. This lug should be dead on a gas model but may still be on the ignition switch, and when it start position, its activated and someone wired to it, incorrectly?

Three the starter is bad and drawing way too much current and causing everything on that lug to get hot?

Four... starter seloniod is bonkers and shorting to ground when energized.....


Since it only heats in start position... disconnect big lug on opposite side going to starter. Activate key into start position and see if it still gets hot with the starter load removed. You should hear a loud click as the relay closes but it only powering the coil bypass wire... through the second small lug... and the lugs should not get hot or turn red. report back...

Thank you for that info. I will do that check in the morning and report back.

I did receive a new relay this evening, but will perform the test with the existing relay.

On a side note, while researching this topic, I came across a link to a Ford Tractor Service Manual 1965 - 1975 covering tractor series 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, 7000, 3400, 3500, 3550, 4400, 4500, 5500 and 5550. It was one of those "FREE" links. To my surprise, it was the real deal -- pdf, 913 pages. If any of y'all would like a copy, I would be happy to provide it "FREE" . Just lemme know.

Again, thanks for all your help.
Randall

(quoted from post at 00:45:33 08/28/18)

Three the starter is bad and drawing way too much current and causing everything on that lug to get hot?

Since it only heats in start position... disconnect big lug on opposite side going to starter. Activate key into start position and see if it still gets hot with the starter load removed. You should hear a loud click as the relay closes but it only powering the coil bypass wire... through the second small lug... and the lugs should not get hot or turn red. report back...

Click to expand...

Reporting Back :
Number Three does exactly as you described. Loud CLICK but the post does not get hot. Holding the key into the start position and my pinky on the lug :shock: I get no heat at all.

I will be ordering a new starter motor shortly. No starter motor available here so off to eBay.

In the meantime, I'll put on the new relay just to see if the problem persists. Will let you know how this works out. I need my Big Blue to keep my field cut and snow off my driveway.

Thanks again.
randall

They do offer the starter here.
D7NN11001A for $81.35
It doesn't show up in the 5000 parts section but is the same starter as used on 2-3-4000 gas models.

(quoted from post at 00:30:22 08/29/18)
They do offer the starter here.
D7NN11001A for $81.35

Click to expand...

Thank you for that. I found it but it is out of stock
I really would like to buy it from here ... But the price from eBay is about $20 less because of free shipping.

Thank you.

Randall

You can have the old starter rebuilt, but sadly it will cost more than the replacement starter. Now that is wrong, but its the world we live in... Good luck on the new starter....and your tractor. It still could be a cooroded up solenoid, but you have a new one... main problem with the solenoid is that there are two types and the wrong one will not feed the coil while cranking, only when you let off the crank position will it fire.

Unfreakingbeilievable!!!

Just put in the new starter, buttoned up the loose ends. Crossed my fingers and turned the key....fired up immediately. Less than a couple of seconds.

Noticed that the charge light stayed on indicating that the generator wasn't charging (?). Researched and found that you if you jump the FIELD terminal on the voltage regulator (flash it) that it would take care of that issue --- to my complete surprised, that worked too.

I used to have to crank till the battery wore down and give her loads of gas. Now the starter just jumps. Throttleall the way down at the idle position and it just fires up.

So, mission accomplished with your guys help. Thanks a bunch again.

So now you can watch for dumba** questions on the next project: restoring the power steering.

Randall