Ford 4500 Transmission - Wont Move

I have a 4500 70's era 3cyl ford diesel. Hydro for the backhoe and loader work fine. When putting it in gear and trying to move it goes nowhere. It had been giving me this problem after running it for an hour or so but now it just wont move. It has the typical single shifter between my knees and then the selector to the left of the steering wheel for forward/neutral/reverse.
Unfortunately I'm new to hydraulics and old tractors so I'm starting from scratch. Any suggestion about what I should start checking first?

Thanks

Sounds like you have the 4x4 torque converter auto reversing transmission. That transmission has it's own hydraulic pump that powers the forward/reverse control valve which in turn powers a pair of clutch packs, one for forward and one for reverse.

I'm not sure exactly where, as I haven't worked on one myself, but I've seen other posts on it, but there should be a hydraulic test port on the right side of the transmission where you can hook up a pressure gauge.

If you don't have one, get yourself a service manual for your tractor. The engine will be covered in the regular 2000/3000/4000/5000/7000 series service manual but you will need the Industrial tractor supplement for the information on that transmission as well as the loader and backhoe.

IIRC the pressure test port can only be accessed by removing the cover plate under the torque converter. There should be a tube with a plug in the end to test. Changing the
filter can sometimes help.

I agree with JF. Sounds like a pump problem.

just had to repair one recently.have a friend who has experience with your trans.You probably have a whine in either neutral or in gear. One means pump or screen problem and the other means torque converter. Can't remember which is which but call a transmission shop and they can tell you. Same for cars. The screen is inside the trans at the bottom-only accessible by splitting and partially disassembling the trans.Do NOT attempt without correct book on your trans for your year and model tractor. There were changes in clutch packs over the years and if you mix or install wrong discs you'll have a large problem. Pressure check is checked from underneath. 1/8 pipe plug above square cover.

Pump, oil quality or quantity, filter condition.

I opened the trans cover tonight and found the oil was milky so that's going to be taken care of tomorrow. Filter too.

Ok, So a few "Newb" questions...
Does the oil in the transmission operate the torque converter too?
Is there a separate fill location for the torque converter?

Thanks for all the replies!

Yes to your first question and no to your second.

OK, so a bleak chance it is as simple as fluid and filter...fingers crossed.

(quoted from post at 20:19:15 08/06/18) OK, so a bleak chance it is as simple as fluid and filter...fingers crossed.

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Probably not but you need to get the contaminated fluid out of there anyway so drain the transmission, replace the filter and add clean fluid. If your fluid is circulating it's probably going to take three flushes as draining the transmission case doesn't drain the converter. There's a lot of milky fluid in the converter.

You will find an inspection cover under the bellhousing. Pull the cover and look up. You will see the high pressure tap (at the end of a steel line) protruding down from the oil divider. Get yourself a shop manual on ebay and follow the test procedure.

A sure way to start a fight online is to ask which oil to use to flush the transmission. I wouldn't use the $90 stuff or the $30 stuff. There's $40-50 oil that says it meets M2C134D spec. It's ok to use for flushing but not for operating if you get her running.

https://www.messicks.com/nhc/85073

See above link and look at Page 07U02. Part No. 46 is the pressure line and No. 59 is the high pressure tap. It will make sense after you look at both the parts drawing and the tractor.

You may have something else going on that may or may not be related to contaminated oil. Best to eliminate the bad oil and see if you have pressure first, unless you want to skip all of the above and tear it down.

There is a drain plug on the convertor. Kinda hard to see from underneath the tractor and you need to turn the motor slowly to see when it comes around but it's there. I had an algae that grew on the screen and sealed it off. I put 2 gallons of acetone in the trans and let it sit for 2 days and drained it out. Didn't start it-- just let it sit. Strained it and did it again.Drained it out-refilled it with trans fluid and got enough trans pressure to move it so I could take the backhoe off and get it to tear down area.

I let the trans drain for 2 days - lots of milky gunk. The filter was stuck on so hard that I bent my filter wrench and a screwdriver before finally jamming a pry-bar through it to get it off. The filter was half the diameter of the correct one so the flow rate was Last night I filled it with the M2C134D spec oil (Thanks Check Brake for the recommendation).

Pretty wet out last night and it was way past dark so I didn't drive it too much, but it does go in gear and move! Anxious for the rain to quit so I can really test it out.

When I get home tonight I will blow the dust out of the radiator to help keep the trans fluid cool. Can't hurt.

Still bogs down after a couple hours operation.

Is this just how a bad pump acts?

(quoted from post at 12:39:59 08/11/18)
Still bogs down after a couple hours operation.

Is this just how a bad pump acts?

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What do you mean "bogs down." A bad pump is bad. Two hours isn't going to make the fluid any hotter and thinner than a half hour of work. Did you check your fluid again. What color is it.

(quoted from post at 10:15:22 08/12/18)

What do you mean "bogs down." A bad pump is bad. Two hours isn't going to make the fluid any hotter and thinner than a half hour of work. Did you check your fluid again. What color is it.

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Sorry, I should be specific. It wont fully engage enough to move forward/backward and I have to rev the engine just to move it a couple feet. It only ran for the two hours before this started to happen again. I will check the fluid tonight to see if it has gone milky again during that time. A local guy repair guy told me that the pumps in the 4500 will run OK for a while but then act like this. I wasn't sure if he knew what he was talking about - because he also offered to buy it from me.

Sorry, I should be specific. It wont fully engage enough to move forward/backward and I have to rev the engine just to move it a couple feet. It only ran for the two hours before this started to happen again. I will check the fluid tonight to see if it has gone milky again during that time. A local guy repair guy told me that the pumps in the 4500 will run OK for a while but then act like this. I wasn't sure if he knew what he was talking about - because he also offered to buy it from me.

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If he said pumps, that's funny. There's only one pump and you can check your pump pressure when cold and at the 2 hour mark. In fact you can leave the gauge hooked up and watch it as you work. Lets see what the fluid looks like first. Your filter should bypass if it plugs up but ... .

Did you get a chance to check out your fluid again.

(quoted from post at 21:01:51 08/15/18)
Did you get a chance to check out your fluid again.

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I did and it looks as good as when I filled it. Maybe because I let it drain for a couple days it didn’t have much left i it. I did not have a chance to check the level but it seemed just a tad low. I’ve not noticed any leaks on the ground although i gave it a full five-gallon fill.

If it does need the pump in the converter replaced I see th part is $279. The job itself is beyond my capability. Any ideas on a fair price to pay for the labor?

(quoted from post at 08:13:19 08/16/18)

(quoted from post at 21:01:51 08/15/18)
Did you get a chance to check out your fluid again.

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I did and it looks as good as when I filled it. Maybe because I let it drain for a couple days it didn’t have much left i it. I did not have a chance to check the level but it seemed just a tad low. I’ve not noticed any leaks on the ground although i gave it a full five-gallon fill.

If it does need the pump in the converter replaced I see th part is $279. The job itself is beyond my capability. Any ideas on a fair price to pay for the labor?

Click to expand...

Labor and skill varies depending upon what part of the country you're in. A skilled Ford mechanic could do the job in 10-12 hours. You need someone who knows what they're doing. If they don't know Fords, they should still be able to get in and out in 20 hours. Concrete is easier to work on than dirt. Rain and burning sun is worse than shade and a mild breeze.

It looks like there's more aftermarket parts available these days. I haven't used any of them but intend to do so. Reman T/C-s go for $350-600 but I don't know who's doing the reman. I think CNH wants $1,600. Check Messicks.com for current OEM price. Alexanders sells a gasket, seal, pump and friction kit but they say to call for price. Their kit for the later transmission is about $700. This is less than half of OEM. You may need a few other parts only available from CNH and you'll want to replace any bearings that don't look stellar. These can be aftermarket as long as they're not made in the land of almost right.

If I were you, I'd buy a manual then do a pressure test. There's quite a few things that could be causing your problem. Control valve not actuating, worn linkage, bad T/C, T/C spinning in your pump, bad pump, broken sealing rings, bad piston seals, bad frictions and a few others. If you have good pressure, I'd be looking at the control valve and linkage. If your pressure is low, then I think you're going to have to split the tractor and R&R the shuttle.

If you get in and out for $3,500 parts and labor you did well. OEM parts and labor can easily run $7K. Buy a manual and read it 10x until you understand what's going on, then look around for a mechanic. If it doesn't sound like he knows what he's doing, look for another. Post back if you do a pressure test and let us know what happened.

Reading all this makes me feel so much better about replacing mine with a manual transmission.

(quoted from post at 22:29:58 08/16/18) Reading all this makes me feel so much better about replacing mine with a manual transmission.

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It depends on what you're doing. I cuss my 9540 shuttle half the time because shifting feels awkward to me and I won't get near a dirt project with my 8 spd 4000. Too lazy and spoiled by the 4x4-s on my 445A and 555A. Driving a tractor is therapy for me these days so I try to avoid aggravation.

Just a thought..... My 3500 has a hydraulic tranny that sounds similar to yours. If the rpm's of the engine is just a bit above idle, it will not engage the transmission... regardless if you have the shifter in gear and actuate the lever to go in forward/reverse/neutral. This is the way it is designed. Before going too far into it, make sure you have the engine rpm at minimum before attempting to shift. Maybe you've done that, I don't know, but might save you some time and $$.

My brother used to rebuild those 4x4 transmissions all the time. They are good for site, or yard work but if you need to drive it for a ways they get overheated. If you need to move it to another job site it's better to haul it on a trailer. Overheating them is the number one reason they give up, followed by switching directions without stopping completely first.

Hi
I have a 1965 or 1966 ford 3500 industrial TLB with 4 speed shiter at the feet and fwd nuetral reverse shutle shifter near the steering wheel. Serial number C129819 or C189891 (cant tell if the 3rd symbol is a 2 or an 8). My built number is 6F23. Model 35011F

My problem is it wont go in reverse and would only go forward in 1st and 3 gear. I read it might be stick valves in the shuttle shifter that controls the torque covertor.

I did the following

Drained milky oil (~ 5 gallons)
Opened valve body . Found valves, springs and detent pins rusted and stuck in body.
Cleaned everything.
Bought 2 new detent pins (C5NN7N092A) $20
Bough new valve body gaskets (C5NN7N125A lower $20 and C7NN7N124A upper $11)
Cleaned 2 springs (C5NN7N120C) $20
Cleaned 2 hydraulic valves (C5NN7N119B) $N/A
Opened transmission case by removing the shifter cover . Drained it and cleaned with gasoline. Dried with air compressor. Rinsed it with a few gallons of new oil and then filled it with 5 gallons of new Tractor supply premium UTF oil ( ~$42 here in philly)
Finally put it all back together a week later. Went to test it today and ITS STILL ONLY SPINNING FORWARD. NO REVERSE. I opened the trans cover and the oil is milky white again and about 1 to 1.5 inches lower then what i filled. The interesting thing is when i put the shuttle shift lever in NUETRAL or REVERSE its still spinning forward.

Any idea what it could be?

Does the shift lever wear out ? Im thinking its either broken or worn off and thats why it can reach 2nd and 4th gears ? Any idea

Thanks in advance

This post was edited by rigal53 on 10/06/2021 at 09:25 pm.

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