Vintage Ford Tractor Axle Duals (Long)

Dean

Well-known Member
I's setting up a set of axle duals for my 64, 4000 S-O-S retirement project tractor. I've never used duals on a vintage Ford tractor before and the set-up procedure is not covered in the owners manual. Hopefully, some of you folks have such experience and can offer advise. FWIW, this is a hobby tractor and will not be used for anything aside from the occasional show, at least not with the duals installed.

The tractor currently has a set of NOS Ford PA rims with new tires and tubes. The wheel spacers are installed and the rims are adjusted fully inward.

I have a matched set of new tires and tubes for the duals and a set of the dual wheel adapters with the stud extenders.

I have two extra sets of PA rims, one with centers, clamps etc. but do not know if these can be used for duals. Anyone know?

I have only one set of scalloped, 6-loop centers with 6-loop rims but these are currently on my 55 860, which is for sale.

Currently, the 860 is priced with the heavy F & R weights, which are installed, and a set of dual (2 levers, 4 couplings) remotes but if it does not sell this way, I will remove the weights and remotes and lower the price $1,500.

One option, which probably involves the least work (I change all of my own tires), is to use one of my extra sets of Ford PA rims as my dual set-up but I do not know if this is possible and it would be a bit silly. Anyone know if this is even possible?

Another option is to remove the 6-loop rims and centers from my 860 and use the dished centers for my 4000 duals. This would require me to remove the tires currently on the 860 6-loop rims and install them on my complete set of PA rims/centers for installation onto the 860. I can swap the tires around but it's quite a bit of work for a 68 year old guy working alone. I would also need to remove the heavy pie weights from the 860 as these are not compatible with PA rims. FWIW, I have a light set of pie weights that are compatible with PA rims that could be installed on the 860 with the PA rims but they are painted blue and would need to be repainted. I am a rattle can painter. I cannot use the 6-loop rims on the 860 as my dual rims as these are 12" rims and all of my PA rims are 11". I do not believe that duals with different width rims would work, or even look, properly even for a hobby tractor with 4 identical new tires. Consequently, this option would require that I buy a new set of 11" 6-loop rims, which are readily available, delivered for not much more than $100 each. I would also end up with an extra set of 12" 6-loop rims.

Assuming that I use 6-loop dished centers and 6-loop rims as my dual set-up, can the axle duals be installed with the centers dished in (close) or only with the centers dished out (wide)? Anyone know? I will need to know this in order to mount the tires for the duals with the valve stems on the outside. Furthermore, I do not want to create a hobby tractor that is too wide to fit on a reasonably sized trailer.

Dilemmas....

Any advise will be greatly appreciated.

Dean
 
No personal experience using that type of duals. I've seen only one set up that way, a prior 4000 utility. I don't remember if it had PA's or 6-loops. As I recall, the inner centers must be dished in, and the outer set dished out. I don't believe the center would reach the lugs with the outer set dished in.
I don't see why the PA rims wouldn't work. Get one set dished out and see how it fits. Figure how much wider the tire is than the rim, add some clearance, and see where that puts you. You do not want the sidewalls to touch under any conditions.
It's going to be wide with duals, probably around 30" wider with 13.6's. Clamp-on 16.9x30's take my 4600 from just over 6' to just under 10'.
 
Thanks, Fordfarmer.

I too think that the inners must be dished in and the outers dished out.

I should have mentioned that all tires are 13.6s.

I'm doing this for fun and photos.

Dean
 
If I?m understanding this correctly you will be fastening two centers on the existing studs? One dished in and one dished out? I?m not sure the offset on the dishes will allow that. I am certain that you won?t be able to keep them tight because there won?t be anything to keep the inner center from ?chucking? back and forth as the axle lug holes are a fair bit larger than the studs.

I?d approach this by attaching the inner center to the axle using the lug/studs used with the pie weight disc. Attach the outer disc with the OEM lug nuts. You?ll have both centers sitting firmly on a chamfer and have 1-1/4? or so to play with between the bolt patterns of the centers. I hope this makes sense.
 
No.

The Ford dual wheel adapters have spacer rings to space the wheel centers apart. adapter studs similar to those used for pie weights are used with the spacers and conventional tapered lug nuts are used to attach the centers to the adapters. Thus, the outer rims are secured similar to the inner centers.

That said, it would appear that both sets of wheel centers must be dished in in order for the tapered wheel nuts to fit properly into the counter-sink bores in the wheel centers.

Good point.

Dean
 
As Dean said there is an adapter plate and special adapter lug nuts to secure the second wheel.

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The only experience I have with the duals is the 6 loop rim. They would be Great at a show but never took mine cause it wouldn't fit on my trailer and I wasn't going to buy a deckover just to trailer it around. The 4000 should be a little shorter than the row crop models. Don't see why the PA's shouldn't work cause you can spin them to where they need to be. IMO I would go will the 6 loop for the duals. I would prefer to show the operation on the PA's at a show. You would be able to trailer it there easier and than show how they spin in and out. Since yours are NOS you should have no problem with operation cause when they are new they work like a dream.
I used my 950 for pulling so I would have to take them off every time I was going to pull. I didn't have the extensions on, they are hanging it the barn. You can see the rim position on the plate photo and the outer was dished out. They were matching 12.4 X 28 firestone and I believe the rims are 11". An under sized rim with bigger tires will make the belly on the tire bow out more so you will have to play around with that to get it right so they don't rub but not enough of a gap so rocks get wedged in.
If you put the duals on and take it to a show most people won't even notice the PA rims. Kind or like the guy would has the 8n Grader and added the V8 flathead. Just a little to much going on. One thing took away from the other.
The dauls are nice looking but don't help with traction, more flotation. Expense of extra tires/rims, couldn't trailer it, pain storing it cause its wider than my other tractors so I took them off and sold the plates and used the tires on other tractor. Don't know if it's any help or just muddied up the water more. I would like to see some photos when you get done.

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Thanks, Kirk. It does help.

I'll probably buy another set of 11" 6-loop rims and scrounge up another set of dish centers (I believe that I have one) for my duals.

Once they are properly set up, it is not much of a job to put them on and take them off again. I change my own tires and never use liquid ballast.

Dean
 

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