Moving up from my 8N

Kenster

Member
I'm considering moving up from my 1952 8N. I've had it 12 years. Love it, but the main chore for it is shredding our seven acre meadow, which, over the years, has really become quite thick and healthy. It's all the 8N can do to get the job done anymore, especially when it gets real thick after Spring rains and my job has kept me on the road for several weeks.

I've had my mind set on either a 600 or 800 series gasser. Something like a 641 or 860/861. Similar enough to the 8N that I would feel comfortable doing any minor maintenance, plus it still has the classic look of the 8N.

Live PTO would be nice but not necessary. The extra horses is what I'm after.

But lately, I've been studying up on the 2000/3000. More power than the 8N. I know the later 2000s are three cylinders.
My main conundrum is whether to go with a diesel engine on any of the four models mentioned above. There seems to be a lot more diesels out there for sale. Does that mean there are actually more OF them? (either they built more or they have outlasted the gassers). Or, are the gassers so valued that their owners don't want to turn them loose?
And the possibility of power steering for the 2000 or 3000 is enticing.

The idea of a diesel sort of intimidates me. I'm no mechanic but can read an FO manual. In 12 years, my tractor has only been in the shop once- for an electrical problem I couldn't find. (Electrical kicks my butt and in this case, it was the copper strip in the distributor!) But I don't have a clue about diesel motors.

So, with all things being equal, what would you suggest to fit my needs? 600 series? 800 series? 2000? 3000?
 
Any of the tractors you mentioned are a step up.
Power steering is a blessing. Power assist in these machines.
It is available/optional on the x00, x01 and x000 series tractors.

Any with a transmission other than the 4 speed could have live
PTO, such as the 860/861/4000 prior/2000/3000.
A select-o-speed would have independent PTO.

The four cylinder gassers would be more similar to what you're
used to driving. Bigger engines burn more gas though.

The diesel would get better fuel economy, but I'm not really a fan
of the 4 cylinder diesels. The three cylinders diesels were better IMHO.
Diesels also have less electrical to deal with.
 
Royce pretty well summed it up. Don't be afraid of a
diesel - they are very reliable and efficient - very little
to do beyond filters and oil. I'm not a big fan of the
"prior" diesels, but I am of the 3-cylinder models.
Look for a 3000 with a twin stick transmission and
p/s. Or better yet, if you can swing it, a 3-cylinder
4000, so you get more horses, independent pto, and
wet disk brakes.
 
I would keep the 8n and buy another tractor. I have a 9n and a 62 4000RC. I still use the 9n more. The power steering always leaked on the 4000 so I took it off.
 
I agree with Royce and fordfarmer. I
have a 3 cyl 3000 gas and wish it was
diesel. Mine is a 8spd with PS and
differential lock. If it were diesel it
would be a home run. There really isn't
much to a diesel to be leery of. I have
a 5000 diesel with the same options as
my 3000 and it is a great tractor!
 
If you like your 8N you will love an 860.

It will use twice as much fuel per hour while doing twice as much work.

Like others, I'm not a fan of the early Ford 4 cylinder diesels.

I would not buy a 6** tractor because for approximately the same price you can get an 8** tractor with considerably more HP.

Dean
 
We have a 640 and love it. We "
Bushhog" with it a lot. 601 or 801
would be even better,but ours gets
the job done.
 
Diesel, baby. Grew up with 4000/5000 Fords in the 70s. Inherited my 50 8N from my brother in law ten years ago. It's a fun tractor and has been a good worker but as with anything that is 68 years old it needs some attention, sometimes on a regular basis. I was in your position last year and after looking around I found what was perfect for me. A 78 Ford 3600 diesel, power steering, live PTO, parking brake and diff lock. Its got more butt than an 8N, all the amenities I wanted and no more carburetor or points issues and overrunning clutches(disconnecting the brush cutter to transport and cutting in reverse). When she coughs to life it reminds me of when I was a kid. It's the last size that uses basically the same tire diameter and center as the 8N. The 4000s and up are a big step up in tires, front axle, brakes and such. I like them but they are way more tractor than I need.

The advice I got was wait till fall. All the good ones are in use for the season so you may get lucky and find one where an owner wants to thin his stable but needs it till after harvest. There are a lot more gassers around me for sale but I wanted a diesel. Diesels are 600-800 dollars more around here.
 

Nearby, I have a 660 and a 641, both equally fantastic condition. Both asking $4500.

641 has a lot more power and has a 4 speed.
660 has only 30 hp but has 5 speed and Live PTO. For mostly bush hogging, I don't really need 5 speed and Live PTO. I like the considerable more power that the 641 has.

Thoughts between these two?
 
"641 has a lot more power"

No, not really. Both used the 134 Red Tiger engine. Tractordata
dot com shows about one HP difference. Only difference between
them engine wise that I know of was a bigger manifold and carb.
Manifolds can be changed between the two if desired.
Now if you meant an 841, that's a different story.
Both of those are over priced for my area.
 

I grew up on a 850 and loved that tractor, plenty of power and the 5 spd trans is one of the best. In this style tractor I'd look for a 860-861 gas with power steering but would not pass up a good deal on a 850-851 that doesn't have live pto.
In the 65 and newer 2-3-4000 models I'd go diesel only, I've never seen a gas model with a good steady governor like the older four cylinder tractors had.
My personal favorite in that small compact size is the 4000SU, plenty of hp to handle a big cutter, independent pto eliminates a costly two stage clutch, inboard wet disc brakes are far superior to drum brakes.
To give you an idea of the dependability of the 3 cylinder diesel I rebuilt the engine on my 4000 diesel 26 years ago, it gets used 150-200 hrs per year.
 
(quoted from post at 22:50:51 06/18/18) "641 has a lot more power"

No, not really. Both used the 134 Red Tiger engine. Tractordata
dot com shows about one HP difference. Only difference between
them engine wise that I know of was a bigger manifold and carb.
Manifolds can be changed between the two if desired.
Now if you meant an 841, that's a different story.
Both of those are over priced for my area.

Tractor Data site shows 660 at 30hp and 641 at 48.4 hp.
 
(quoted from post at 23:34:13 06/18/18)
(quoted from post at 22:50:51 06/18/18) "641 has a lot more power"

No, not really. Both used the 134 Red Tiger engine. Tractordata
dot com shows about one HP difference. Only difference between
them engine wise that I know of was a bigger manifold and carb.
Manifolds can be changed between the two if desired.
Now if you meant an 841, that's a different story.
Both of those are over priced for my area.

Tractor Data site shows 660 at 30hp and 641 at 48.4 hp.
You're comparing the belt HP on the 660 to engine HP on the 641.
Apples and Oranges. Compare the drawbar HP.
 
Tractordata is not to be trusted.

The HP difference between the 6*0 and 6*1 is no more than 2 PTO HP.

The figure stated for the 641 is a bit optimistic for an 841.

Dean
 
If you do this your first thought when you
get any one of the tractors you mention will
be "Why didn't I do this years ago?"
Go with the 3 cyl 2000 or 3000.
I went from a 2N to an 8N and then to a
plain jane 3 cyl 2000 and finally to the
3000D that I have now. Have had a 641 and a
couple of 3 cyl 4000s along the way but my
favorite one of them all is the 3000. Nice
size, not overly complex.
Mine has all the options.
Gas or diesel is ok with me.
Don't be afraid of a diesel.
To me live pto is nice but if I had to
choose between live pto or power steering I
would take the PS. I love having PS.
Any of the tractors you mention will be
somewhat familiar to you just because it's a
Ford.
One bit of advice if you buy a 3 cyl:
Never trust the hours on the proof meter on
one. Ever!
The tach/proof meter on them were
notoriously prone to go kaput.
Keep us updated. The next best thing to
getting a new tractor oneself is
seeing/helping a friend get one.
 
You know I prefer the 3 cyl Fords but
I fired up my pal Kenny's 841S diesel
yesterday, backed it off the trailer and
parked it behind my house. He needs to store
it here for a few days. He did a reman on
the engine about 8? years ago and it's had
very little use since. What a honey of a
tractor!
If I ever bought a 4 cyl that would be the
one I'd want - though probably an 861D.
I told him it would probably see some real
hard use while it's here. You know, like a
couple of trips to the gas mart to get a
root beer or something.
 
I'd agree with the others on upgrading from the N-Series for a good working tractor. The N's are great little workhorses -perfect for hobby farms, mowing grass, and plowing snow. In 1955 Ford introduced the 600 and 800 models. The 600 was just a glorified NAA model as both came with new Red Tiger 134 cu/in engine so not any difference there, and only a slight increase from the 8N in HP. Now, with the 800 Series, 5-speed transmission and the 172 cu/in Red Tiger engine now offered a 40 HP motor, and power steering an option later. After '61/'62 with the Thousand Series models, holy crap, now you had some real machines -the 2000, 3000, and 4000 models were available as FTO once again re-organized. I concur to skip over the 600 Model and go right to the 800 Series, an 860 would probably be more to your liking. The 2000 and 3000 models also are great work machines as well. The one fact that remains constant is that many of these old Fords are still out in the field working regardless of model -N's, Hundreds, Thousands -they are plentiful in both working and in the used tractor market. Do some homework, price all models out, test drive them, before making a decision. One other important point to consider before buying any tractor regardless if vintage used or a newer brand/model, is the availability of parts. There are virtually thousands of Ford Tractor parts suppliers around and getting most any part is not a problem. Case in point is my buddy has a 1984 Massey-Ferguson Model 1010 Compact tractor. Last summer he asked me to look at it as it quit running. These were built with Japanese made engines, now out of business, and nobody picked up on making and supplying parts for them. The few parts that are available are expensive -$10 for dinky little paper fuel filter! I told him to get rid of it and buy an old N a she only use sit for mowing grass and discing food plots-can't even pull a plow with it!!! In my neck of the woods you can't throw a rock without hitting an old Ford Tractor. It also proves appoint that unless it is a Ford Tractor specific show, you don't see too many Ford Tractors on the tractor show circuit because they are all still out in the field working!

Tim Daley(MI)
 
+1 on Jerry's post. My 3000 is the best of 8 older tractors I have owned (7 Fords, 1 Deere), I was shopping for a 3000 or 4000 diesel and found a 3000 with 8 speed, live PTO, dual remotes, power steering, new rears located a 2 hour drive from me. I am happy that a 3000 came up for sale before a 4000 - the 3000 is a perfect fit for me.
 
Fellow selling the 640 claims it has live PTO. He says you “push a button to turn it off and on.” ????

Looks like a 600 series isn’t enough power difference over my 8n so I’ll concentrate on the 800 (especially 860) and the 2000/3000.
 
Another fan of the 3000 and 3600. I have one of each both diesel used for mowing and hobby farming. So far haven't had anything I couldn't fix with fairly easily obtainable parts. My 3000 has been working hard for me for over 10 years without anything other than normal maintenance.
 
And yes, any of the 600 or 601 series (or 2000's, for the that matter) are only a small step up in h.p. from your 8N. Look at the 800's, 801, 3000's and 4000's.
 
(quoted from post at 09:10:32 06/19/18) Fellow selling the 640 claims it has live PTO. He says you “push a button to turn it off and on.” ????

Sounds like a 601 series with select-speed trans
The indépendant pto on SOS tractors was controlled by a push-pull lever on the dash.

Seems to be a bit of confusion on the 4000 models so here's some reference photos

This is my 801, their a little larger than a 8N but have a good bit more power, some can be found with power steering like mine
The 63/64 four cylinder 4000 is the same basic tractor as a 801

Note: Yes this one is diesel, SOS trans
18507.jpg


This is my 4000SU, same size rear tires as my 801, same style set back axle and steering.
Same physical size as a 2000-3000 but has more power along with planetary drive rear axle and wet disc brakes

18508.jpg


This is my 4000 all purpose, larger 30" rear tires, heavier cast front bolster, heavy duty straight axle, larger fuel tank, sheet metal sets higher
Bigger size and more weight

18509.jpg


For all around farm work I use the 4000, it handles heavier implements better.
For confined space and close quarters work the 4000SU does a batter job.

Both 4000's see regular farm use.
The 801 has done some work but wasn't bought for that purpose.
 
Any of the models you mentioned would be an upgrade. the 861 or 4000 gasser, if you found one with power steering, would be
nice. One of the thousand series 3 cyl models.. I'd go for a diesel. the 4 cyl older model.. stay gasser.. IMHO.
 
Are the 600/800/2000/3000 so hard to handle without power steering? I’ll never have a loader on it. Main chore would be shredding. I’ve managed quite well with the 8n and no power steering.
 
(quoted from post at 16:44:27 06/19/18) Are the 600/800/2000/3000 so hard to handle without power steering? I’ll never have a loader on it. Main chore would be shredding. I’ve managed quite well with the 8n and no power steering.

I've got a 871 gasser with power steering and it's a godsend when you're trying to weasel a log out of the woods in reverse. Probably not so important in a field where all you have to do is go straight.

If I live long enough to wear this one out, next tractor will be a 4000 SU with diesel and P/S.
 
No.
None of them are any harder to steer than an
N.
PS just makes it real easy.
On my 3000 with ps I have a spinner knob
mounted on one of the spokes on the steering
wheel. It is set at about a 12" circle.
Above about 8-900 rpms I can easily whip the
steering wheel back and forth with one hand
even with the spinner at such a small
diameter.
Real nice when you have one hand on the
wheel and one hand on the touch control
handle.
It's also nice for close quarter maneuvering
but of course, not neccessary.
Like live hydraulics - you can get by just
fine without it. But try it once and you'll
see how much you like it.
 
No, they aren't... as long as they've been maintained
or had the steering gone through. But p/s makes it
just that much nicer...
 
(quoted from post at 18:17:03 06/19/18) I just sent Ken's wife a text.
"Tell Ken I think someone stole his tractor.
Oh wait...
I think they're Going to steal his tractor."
a270926.jpg

Beautiful tractor. The nearby 641 and 660 are freshly restored-or at least very nicely painted. They’re tempting because their close and have a reasonable asking price. I just think the gain in power over the 8n is enough. There’s a really nice 3 cyl 3000 that came available close to home for $2500. Bet it won’t last long.
 
If you get a 3 or 4000,the first thing you will notice is the 2 gearshift levers as your big foot steps across. If you get a 860/1 it will feel like you just got a modern 8N. My experience!!!
 
IN 1980 I bought new a 2600 Ford and never looked back. At the time I should have gotten the 3600 Model. The additional HP would have been helpful, but I managed with the 2600 Ford.
 
IN 1980 I bought new a 2600 Ford diesel and never looked back. At the time I should have gotten the 3600 Model. The additional HP would have been helpful, but I managed
 

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