4000 Education

Local guy has this tractor for sale, listed as a 4000.
I'm apparently second in line to look at it, so it may be a moot
point, as it may be sold but what can you tell me about it?
When I talked to him he said it had an 8 speed and a stuck 3 cyl
gas engine from setting for 5 years. He didn't know if it had power
steering or not as he recently bought it to save it from scrappers.
Can you tell? Can you verify the model? I think I see wet brakes.

This is all I have for pictures.

Yes, it has PS, I can see the pump on the LH side of the engine.

Any three cylinder 4000 has wet brakes.
As for power steering looks like the
pump is there, if it works is anyone's
guess

Thanks Bern, hopefully I'll get to look at it tomorrow.
Is that front axle typical of all 4000 series tractors?

"Any three cylinder 4000 has wet brakes."

Yep, which is one of the reasons I would like one.
I'm not opposed to a mutt either. In fact, I'm fond of them.
Just trying to figure out what it is if I get the chance.
Obviously I don't have any numbers yet or we'd all know more!

A 4000 SU has a 3000-style front axle, otherwise yes, that is a 4000 front axle.

"A 4000 SU has a 3000-style front axle, otherwise yes, that is a 4000 front axle."

Thank you sir. Living and learning over here.
I put a 4000 engine in a 3000 this past summer.
Works beautifully. I think it was the earlier 192 CI version.
Still a big step up from the 158.
I also put all new brakes on it, which work fine.
I think I'd like the wet brakes better, regardless of the front axle.

It's a 4000 built after 3-70, has a power steering pump but no assist cylinder on the side so it must have integral power steering which came out after 3-70.
Has the wrong size rear tires and rims, they look like 28" tires, standard all purpose 4000's normally came with 14.6 or 16.9-30's.
It looks pretty good but with locked up engine and wrong size rear tires and wheels it needs to be fairly cheap, a decent set of 30" tires and wheels are going to be pricey, let alone cost to repair the engine.
Being a 70 or newer model it should have the 201 gas engine.

Around here a running 4000 gas with correct size tires will top out around $4500-5000, diesel model will bring up to $6500.

A couple of thoughts:
The wet brakes on those are superb.
I'm picking the numbers out of thin air
here but to make a hard stop on a 3000
or other dry drum model takes about 70
lbs of leg pressure.
With the wet brakes it's more like
about 25 lbs. They are THAT much
better.
Those are much easier to work on too
than a tractor with the wish bone front
end - especially one with power
steering, if and when it comes time for
a split.
The 4000 APs are a bit large for my
purposes tho - tall, long, etc.
Another thing that takes a while to get
used to is the IPTO.
On the tractors with TPTO or LPTO you
just stomp your foot down on the clutch
and everything shuts down. On those you
gotta remember to stomp your foot AND
shut off the pto.
Pto on those really hammer when you
engage them too. Gotta engage them at
idle. Lastly, running a rotary mower
with one you have to remember to kill
the pto in some thick stuff or the
mower will keep turning and wear out
the little pto brake.
An SU model is just about the ideal
tractor IMO - other than the wishbone
front.
Let us know if you get it. They are
great machines.

There are some instructions in the owner's manual for these on engaging the PTO.
Obviously no need to depress the clutch. Idle, move the lever in one fluid motion, with a brief pause at the stop in the piece that is slotted and retains the lever, before engaging. I was also told by the service manager at the dealer who knows these tractors well, to bring up the RPMs just slightly to either raise the pressure or volume of fluid to the clutch pack. I have noticed a few times that this independent PTO can be engaged smoothly, but its kind of like hitting the lottery. It comes on so darned fast that even while being very careful, it has sheared the shear bolt on the rotary cutter PTO shft immediately. I was able to get a smooth engagement a few times, throttle up just a whisker. He told me an RPM. I had described the operation of this to him like you described it. When I serviced the hydraulic compartment, I drained the oil into new buckets and did not see any metal fines or other material. This is on a much newer tractor though, 4630. I have the filters, yet to cut into them. I did a complete service on this thing and saved all the filters for this purpose. Even cleaned that pesky screen in the transmission,(mechanical shuttle) Always wondered if that I PTO could be operated smoothly, it can, but you have to do it a certain way, exactly the same way everytime. I have never sheared so many bolts on that cutter, it had the same grade 2 bolt for years when it was behind my 850.

The first buyer passed on it, so I took the trailer and looked at it.
Looks to be a straight old tractor but I passed also.

It has sat a while, the rear end is covered in lichens.
The release levers were missing from the 3 pt lift arms and one was welded.

There is only one set of weights on it. It looks like more because
the power adjust rims are mounted with the centers dished out
and the outer rim screwed all the way in. One rim was starting
to rust around the valve stem, but not too bad yet.
They are 30 inch rears, 14.9 IIRC. Holding air but pretty badly
weather checked. 30% tread. Fronts were in the same condition.

Looked to be an original seat but there wasn't much left of it.
It had an after market oil pressure gauge mounted under the
hood on the left side.
The solenoid has been relocated to the exterior right side.
Now that I've seen it in person, I can see it in the picture.

The thing that really talked me out of it was the looks of the engine.
The tractor has nice paint, the left side of the motor is greasy/oily, but painted.
The right side of the engine is completely devoid of paint and rusted.
Almost like it had caught fire, but it was only the engine.
Paint on the bolster and transmission was fine.
Paint on the oil pan was fine, both sides. And no sign of a fire
on the bottom of the battery tray, the distributor, carb etc.

The seller was a really nice guy and was straight up honest about
what he was selling. He bought it as-is and didn't know the history.
He had drained the oil, which he said had rain water in it but no
antifreeze, and had put new oil in it. He also put WD-40 in the cylinders.

So we had a nice visit and he showed me 15 or 20 of the tractors
in his collection so it was a nice evening all in all.
Even though the trailer came home empty.

[b:b0a5335462]Here's[/b:b0a5335462] the ad if anyone else wants to look.
His son placed the ad for him and the "OBO" is a typo.
He wasn't interested in offers.

I'd have to pass also, rebuild the engine and a full set of rubber would have one pretty deep into it.

If those are 14.9-30's the fenders must be for 38" tires.

I wish it was closer.
Assuming it's an 8 speed I'd pay that
for the transmission and rear end.
Sell off whatever was good on it and
come out on it ok. But...
Don't really have the $ now nor the
time to go fetch it.

"If those are 14.9-30's the fenders must be for 38" tires."

The fenders were very tall, but they didn't look too bad on there.

"Assuming it's an 8 speed I'd pay that"

It is an 8 speed and it had a Tisco style single remote hydraulic valve.

On second thought it would make a good parts tractor at that price.
Unfortunately the wife says before another tractor of any kind shows up the rust was to be fixed in her pickup.
Other wise a NEW pickup would show up right behind that tractor, going to talk to the body shop this week.

"On second thought it would make a good parts tractor at that price."

Yabbut, then I'd need more 4000's to need parts for. Woe is me. :wink:

Well I'll be! [b:5ec47320b5]Here's[/b:5ec47320b5] one now! LOL

$7500.00 for that? Man he is dreaming. If he put it all back together and everything was working properly it wouldn't be worth that much around here, maybe $6500.00 tops.