641 Diesel advice

Although I am an orange tractor guy I purchased a 641 diesel from my neighbors retirement auction. Knowing the tractor would probably need an overhaul I set my price accordingly and ended up getting it. Tractor has been repainted but otherwise in decent shape and has a Sherman overdrive and single hyd outlet installed.
I have been around other 4 cylinder ford diesels like the 861 etc so wasn't worried about doing an overhaul. What I didn't realize was ford used a small 144 diesel in the 600 and there were not many produced so no kits/parts available.

What are people doing to fix these engines? can the block be bored to fit the 172 kit? get a 172 block and swap the guts and install a new 172 kit? the tractor runs and drives but has plenty of blowby and smokes a lot.

thanks

Ford 144 CI diesels were built in low numbers and overhaul parts are difficult to find.

It will likely be most cost effective to swap it out for a 172.

Note: The Sherman auxiliary transmission is almost certainly a combination, i.e., UD/DD/OD.

Dean

Whenever I have seen this come up in the last fifteen years, nobody is rebuilding them due to parts unavailability. All you can do is get as much out of it as you can.

(quoted from post at 18:47:12 03/12/18)
Whenever I have seen this come up in the last fifteen years, nobody is rebuilding them due to parts unavailability. All you can do is get as much out of it as you can.

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I don't have a whole lot in it, but it would really be worth something if the motor was fresh.

this is baffling to me. looking at part #'s the 144 and 172 are listed together in the parts book and share, crankshaft, camshaft, main bearings and rod bearings. it looks like the engines are identical except for bore of the block and pistons. searching the archives I found some posts talking about what I mentioned above as far as boring the block to fit the 172 pistons but trying to verify if that is a viable option. it would cost about the same to acquire a 172 block as it would to bore a 144 I would guess

If the pistons are in half way decent shape, I'm betting goggling "custom piston rings" would be a good place to start.

A friend of mine had a 641D and was able to get
the engine overhauled by a local machinest.
I don't know what all it needed or was done to
it though. Weve used the machinest for a bunch
of engine work and can vouch for him.
He is in central MN.
If you'd like his # email me.

A word of caution. The 601 rear end is much weaker than the 800/801s. A 172 can easily cause problems.

In other words, we shouldn't be putting a 192 engines into the 8/900 series tractors! I seriously doubt that there is much metallurgic differences in the rear ends of any of the 100 series tractors.

(quoted from post at 18:07:05 03/12/18) In other words, we shouldn't be putting a 192 engines into the 8/900 series tractors! I seriously doubt that there is much metallurgic differences in the rear ends of any of the 100 series tractors.

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It is not metallurgical it is design and construction. You can see the differences easily with one beside the other.

I have a 144 block that I shaved the top of the block to accommodate 6000 (242 cid) pistons. The 6000 pistons were available at that time.

Bingo.

The 8** rear axle is significantly larger than the 6/7/9** rear axle.

Dean

How many axles have you replaced on 900/1 tractors? I have seen several 900 axle "housing" fail, particularly with mounted corn pickers, but in each case the axle never failed.

As you have found out the lower end is the same as other engines so you can get parts.
The problem comes when you get into the upper end.
Standard rings are available. Tisco makes them.
So if your pistons are still good and just a normal rebuild will work you can piece the parts needed together.

Where the problems start is if the cylinders need to be bored since finding pistons especially oversized pistons is like finding hens teeth.
Your best and mostly only alternative then is to have a machinist sleeve the engine back to standard size.
Doing that brings the cost above what the motor is worth since other common motors will fit in its spot.

I appreciate all the replays and several valid points stated here.

First, I don't doubt that the 600 series rear ends were not made as robust as the larger tractors. Its simple economics to use components designed for the hp of the tractor instead of the heavier more expensive components designed for the top of the class tractor. However, a tractor like this is going to be used as a general utility tractor not a main tillage tractor where these problems would show with daily continuous heavy work. So i wouldn't be concerned putting a 172 into 600 series for my own use.

Second, yes I agree that if the pistons spec out ok that it could be re-ringed, but I wouldn't want to tear into a sleeveless engine to do this as there would likely be a ring ridge and new rings in a worn hole don't really accomplish much. I have done this on a wet sleeve engine with new sleeves and rings, reusing the pistons as they were not available, but i didn't like it.

Third, I acquired this tractor to flip it because the price was reasonable. Tearing into this motor opens a can of worms that i don't have the desire to do. I don't like to halfway repair, which means a significant amount of time and expense to do the job right, and being an AC man, the ford just doesn't have my interest, and of course the profit margin goes way down.

This would be a nice project for a ford man but i don't have the heart in it. I have enough orange projects that i will never get my money back on, but that's not why i do it. I think I will try to get out from under this thing for what i have in it, before spending a bunch of money.

If you are interested in a trade for an AC email me and we can discuss it.

Kind of strange that you were asking about all of that extensive work that you have no intention of doing.

Always interested but KS to Alabama makes trading a bit uneconomical.

(quoted from post at 20:25:04 03/13/18)
Kind of strange that you were asking about all of that extensive work that you have no intention of doing.

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had intended to overhaul the engine if need, but I wanted to verify my options. Since a kit isn't available, figuring out what parts work and tracking them down, plus the hassle of dealing with the machine shop, takes the appeal out of a tractor i wasn't planning to keep anyway. I don't buy used engines and do swaps, its a gamble. I would rather do the job right or not at all, and in this case I may be ahead to pass and concentrate on something else. Who knows, but I like to be informed.