861 arms won't lift

860ford

Member
So after reading a lot of posts on here and try to diagnose the problem I'm not sure what's going on - lift arms just won't raise.

Bought the tractor knowing this was a problem and hoping to fix it so here I am.

At first the arms would raise extremely slowly only sometimes and jerked if they even tried at all. So I tore it down believing it to be the unloading valve. I replaced the oring for the valve because it didnt slide very smooth in the bushing. After replacing the oring it slid slightly better in the large bushing but not enough to where I felt great about it.

Long story short got it back together replacing other orings along the way. Arms now won't even attempt to raise.

However when the tractor was running I went in through the pto lever port and used my finger to cover the return tube mouth. Arms instantly lifted to proper height but struggled to lower with the control lever -had to forcefully lower them.

So is this still an unloader valve problem and if so can i get a new one and bushing from new holland or is this something else thats going on?
 
lift arms just won't raise.

As Larry prompted, prime the pump. If pump is working, the next likely suspects are the unloader and back pressure valves.

Does moving the selector to “Draft” position make a difference?
 
The pump is primed and there's no air that comes out of the bolt hole that I have seen, only a lot of fluid when I check for air.

Where exactly is the backpressure valve located? Is it inside the small cover on top of the lift cover?

Thanks for the replies!
 
As the name implies, the unloader valve unloads the pump when no lift is required. It does this by way of the back pressure valve, and maintains a low system to operate the unloader valve when lift is directed by the control valve. When lift is ordered, the unloader valve moves to block the flow to the back pressure valve. There is no mechanical connection to the unloader valve, instead it receives a fluid command from the movement of the mechanically operated control valve. If not unloading, pressure is directed to lift cylinder. You can readily diagnose a sticking unloader valve upon disassembly as the valve should move freely in its bore.

mvphoto10688.jpg


Thanks to PhotoBucket, the very helpful photos [b:889ccda2a0]in this link[/b:889ccda2a0] do not display but I believe you will benefit from the dialog.
 
So how would I tell with the lift cover off that the unloaded valve is moving freely? Due to its configuration inside the bushings I only have access to the back end of it. Would i try and push it with a screwdriver or something of that nature to see if it moved? It seemed to move better inside the bushing once I replaced the oring but I didn't see a way to test it once fully assembled into the lift cylinder.

Also are new unloaded valves and bushings available today from new holland?

Also if it could be the backpressure valve where is the backpressure valve located on the tractor?
 
(quoted from post at 05:07:38 02/15/18) Check unloader valve fitment before installing the bushing.

Back pressure valve is item 30 in below pix

mvphoto10771.jpg


Unloader valve & Bushing are still available according to [b:0f78a35626]Messicks[/b:0f78a35626] web site. $$


That is extremely helpful. Thank you dollar bill. Is the backpressure valve serviceable or better to just get a new one
 

I have one coming in the shop that sounds just like yours. I have been lucky to not get a hold of a real demon yet but I think this one will test me...

Answer to your un-loader question.

It should float to the point it may fall out on its own with little to no help. I use a pocket magnet for my test....
 
I believe my problem is most definitely the unloader valv3 then. Inside the almost barrel shape bushing it would slightly grab at times even with a new oring. I'm going to take it all back down again. Is there an "at home" method of slightly honing the inside of the bushing to make it more smooth or lacking the valve itself if that is indeed the problem? Just weighing my options before dumping big money into this
 

The 601 showed up today it will raise the lift about 10" and stop. While lifting it quivers/shakes but will lift a heavy load. I will say it may be a little slow like its sticking as it goes up (quivers/shakes).

I took the Fill plug out went in and worked the lift linkage it raised a heavy load all the way GOOD!... I don't know why it quivers/shakes but know I have a adjustment/cam follower pin issue. I am gonna take the cover off repair that issue, remove the valves in the lift control clean and replace o-rings.

I am not asking a question I will if I get to the point I need to test pressures. I have never had to test pressures on one so it will be my first rodeo...

http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1204839&highlight=unloader
 
Is there an "at home" method of slightly honing the inside of the bushing to make it more smooth or lacking the valve itself if that is indeed the problem?

No honing - Lightly polish with 000 steel wool or brass bore brush. Listen to what Hobo tells you as he's been in the trenches with this problem.
 
(quoted from post at 17:11:28 02/15/18)
However when the tractor was running I went in through the pto lever port and used my finger.

Where is that tube at...


The blue arrow points to the hole I plugged with my finger which caused the arms to work perfectly. It's basically just the return line to the sump.
10815.jpg
 
Thank you also for that link Hobo. Just what I needed to see. Looks like the lift cover is coming back off!
 
Just to finalize this with success it was indeed the unloading valve. It was sticking and I couldn't even begin to move it with the magnet stick trick. After disassembling once more I used 1500 grit sandpaper to sand the valve where it was sticking ( small end fit perfectly in my 1/2 inch drill for uniform sanding) and the inside of the large bushing by hand.

Tractor is smooth now and could pick up the world.

Thanks for everyone's help
 
(quoted from post at 03:09:01 02/14/18) As the name implies, the unloader valve unloads the pump when no lift is required. It does this by way of the back pressure valve, and maintains a low system to operate the unloader valve when lift is directed by the control valve. When lift is ordered, the unloader valve moves to block the flow to the back pressure valve. There is no mechanical connection to the unloader valve, instead it receives a fluid command from the movement of the mechanically operated control valve. If not unloading, pressure is directed to lift cylinder. You can readily diagnose a sticking unloader valve upon disassembly as the valve should move freely in its bore.

mvphoto10688.jpg


Thanks to PhotoBucket, the very helpful photos [b:c5cf02beb4]in this link[/b:c5cf02beb4] do not display but I believe you will benefit from the dialog.


Unfortunately Photobucket threw us a curve. Some of those pictures were mine. I wish I could fix this, but its not easy. Sorry!

I do have the pictures if someone wants them.
 

I still have photobucket I think $19 may be 30 a year I have about winged myself off of it so may just dump them....

I paid for add free a year are so ago and was going to just let that fade away but they auto billed my credit card in January... I can handle the fee its that auto bill that burns my arse...
 
(quoted from post at 16:47:45 02/20/18)
I still have photobucket I think $19 may be 30 a year I have about winged myself off of it so may just dump them....

I paid for add free a year are so ago and was going to just let that fade away but they auto billed my credit card in January... I can handle the fee its that auto bill that burns my arse...

The latest I heard is that Photobucket wants $100 a year so you can share photos with forums. Not happening on my retirement budget.
 
"What would you pay if anything."

I wouldn't pay them anything.

Don't get me wrong, they are paying for their infrastructure
and hosting them for you, if you choose to use that service
then they deserve to be paid for the service they provide.

However, I don't need their service.
I can upload them directly to YT or share them from other
free sites like DropBox or OneDrive. Or I can host my own.

I think the dislike for PB isn't that they make an income, we
all need to do that. It's in the way they went about suckering
people in and then wanted $400 to keep your previous links
active. No one wanted to pay it, hence all the dead links in
threads all over the internet. Not just here on YT.

Most people like to deal with more reputable companies.
I wouldn't be surprised if they get bought out shortly.
 
They got by this long by making most of their money off of advertisers and people who wanted to pay for their larger capacity plans. Now they've decided to make everyone pay or leave. Given that choice I'l leave. There are plenty of other free picture hosting sites still out there. I started with photobucket years ago because they were one of the few reliable free ones back then, but now that is no longer the case. I still have all f my photos on two or more local drives for redundancy in case of a crash of any one system, so I can start over again on a new hosting site without losing anything. The only problem is the various forum posts I've made on here and other sites that linked to pictures on photobucket. I can't go back and find all of them, much less edit them to point to a new site.
 
I've moved on from PhotoBucket because they wanted way too much in order to link pics to formum. Now they are trying to bribe me back with this Non-commercial $100 a year package. Good try, but still about $60 too high.
 

OK I located they hole... What fixed the 801 I am working on...

I got the lift on the 801 repaired it now lifts all the way but does not lower as far as I like. I got it with end a 1” are so and call it a fix.. He has aftermarket arms one was bent because he had his check chains to short both were installed upside down. I made all the external adjusts in my playbook it will ware in :WINK:. I am gonna call it fixed it a ... He has aftermarket arms one was bent because he had his check chains to short bout were installed upside down. I made all the external adjusts in my playbook it will ware in overtime… It shivered a little unloaded once I hooked up his slap arse worn out box blade you don’t notice it weight took care of that issue. I did not know you could wear a box blade out he must be dragging the highway :LOL:

My issue the cam follower pin worn out, lift piston o-ring backer deteriorating, un-loader o-ring to loose.

Gonna throw a few o-ring sizes at ya just incase you need to round some up…



Plate to top cover
11215.jpg


Lift cylinder to lift cover

11216.jpg


The two o-rings lift cover to center housing -112
Lift piston o-ring -330
lift piston backer washer seal for o-ring

330 2.138" 0.076" Durometer 90A (Hard) -40° to 250° Black 50 """PART NUMBER 5288T359""" 8.93
Product Detail
Oil-Resistant Buna-N Backup Rings, 0.183" Wide, for Dash Number 330
 
Gonna throw a few o-ring sizes at ya just incase you need to round some up…

Good info Hobo - Thanks for the update on your repair job. Was curious to what you would discover was wrong with it.
 

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