861 double clutch repair

Need a new trans clutch disc in an 861. It is a five speed with double clutch. I have the book and it says must use special alignment jig to stack and assemble the clutch. Is there any reliable way to do it without the special Ford tools?

Buy a complete clutch assembly. I purchased my last two right from New Holland. The clutch/pressure plate assembly, throw out bearing and pilot bearing ran around 400.00. No jig necessary.

2X what Felix said. I don't believe that I have ever come across on this forum anyone rebuilding the two stage clutch.

Don't know your location. It's been some years ago that I had one rebuilt for my uncle at Lincoln Clutch & Brake.

That one cost around $160.00 then. LC&B knows what they're doing too.

They can be disassembled on a shop press but it's tricky. I have 2 complete Nuday clutch
fixtures for the fords,but the component parts to rebuild a 2 stage unit cost almost as
much as a complete unit,so they rarely get used. I buy the complete units myself.

You will be money and time ahead if you follow the advise of the previous posters and buy a complete rebuilt assembly.

If I was just planning to sell it, I would sell it as is, needing new clutch.

Dean

I'm going to be the odd man out here and not be a Debbie Downer. All you need to disassemble the thing is an automotive style valve spring compressor - there's nothing "tricky" about it. A '65 up 3000 double clutch is "tricky", yours is not. All you need to put it back together is a centering tool to get both discs aligned properly. Do you have a friend with a lathe?

If the trans disc is the only thing wrong with it, myself I'd disassemble it and have the discs relined. Don't touch any of the adjustments and away you go!

I do not disagree with you, Bern.

Back in the day, I disassembled, modified and rebuilt many automotive (single disc) pressure plates for racing applications. I did have the benefit of a pressure plate press making the job much easier.

That said, I would not recommend the typical vintage Ford tractor owner to tackle a single disc unit, let alone a double disc unit, without experience and an alignment tool.

Dean

Bern, what about those c-shaped clips for setting the clutch?

If all he needs is a new disc, and the adjustments are not disturbed, and the linkage is not worn - then no adjustments would be needed.

Like you, I've rebuilt many pressure plates in my day, both single and double ones. All of them were done at the dealership I worked for, using factory tooling. Now that I don't have access to these tools, my perspective has changed little.

For a double disc clutch, the ones on the 800 series are about as simple as it gets. If one has access to an engine valve spring compressor and a friend with a lathe, I don't see the difficulty here. As a bonus, aside from the money saved, think of the satisfaction one receives when rebuilding something like that on their own.

Years ago I did exactly as Bern says. Used a valve spring compressor for disassembly and reassembly. Reused the "C" clips. Don't remember how I lined up the disc's but it was not an issue. Worked for years after that. The reason it was bad is someone was towing it and had it in a low gear and released the clutch and it blew the lining off he disc.

Again, I agree.

I've never owned a lathe nor had easy access to someone else's, so needed to round up pilot shafts or damaged input shafts.

Back in the day, I campaigned (street only) a 64 Impala SS (read, heavy car) with VERY high HP small block 327 (read, 7000+ RPM) engine. In order to launch it, I used a 40 Lb. flywheel. I installed a 4:11 gear but with the 9.50 M & H slicks it needed a 4:56 or, better yet, a 5:13.

The clutch was the weak link, and I found myself rebuilding the clutch after each event. Slicks bite MUCH MUCH better on the street than they do on the strip, putting enormous forces upon the drive train.

My first modification was a change from the OEM diaphragm pressure plate to the older three finger design because the diaphragm clutch would stick to the floor when power shifting at high RPM. Watching the tach coming down past 9,000 RPM after missing a gear with a 40 lb. cast iron flywheel and no scatter shield, though scary at the time, in retrospect, reinforces one's respect for the Heavens.

At the time, I worked in the shop at the local, full service auto parts store. Referencing the parts books, I learned that late 50s, early 60s HP Corvettes used three-finger pressure plates with higher spring pressure than other applications, so I ordered one. Worked great until I installed the 9.50 slicks. (In retrospect, the 9.50s were far too much tire for my heavy Impala, especially on the street due to the increased diameter, reducing the effective gear ratio. 7.50s would have been a much better choice, but, again, I was 18.)

I found that clutch slippage overheated the clutch lining and pressure plate driven disc upon each event requiring replacement of the disc and resurfacing of the flywheel and pressure plate driven disc after each event. Because I worked in the shop, I could do this myself, resurfacing the flywheel and pressure plate driven disc on the shop surface grinder, on my own time but pulling the transmission, clutch, flywheel after each event became a nuisance, so I looked for a better alternative.

After, disassembling the pressure plate, I went to the valve spring shelves in the store to look for stronger springs to replace pressure plate springs. Viola! The valve springs used small block Chevys were the same dimensions as those used in my early 60s three-finger pressure plate (before Chevy changed to diaphragm clutches). After inspection, including testing of alternative springs intended for different applications back-to-back with other springs in the shop vise, I learned that the valve springs used in the 61 Corvette with the SHP FI 315 HP 283 (FWIW: the highest rated HP 283) were the highest springs that I could find that would fit my pressure plate, so I rebuilt it with a set.

Worked great. No more slippage but new problems emerged. Clutch actuation parts began to fail. The rod between the clutch pedal and the bel-crank would bend, reducing disengaging displacement, resulting in difficulty engaging the non-synchronized reverse gear, so I reinforced it by welding the shaft of another along side. Next the pivot pin on the knuckle on the bel-crank broke, so I replaced it and started carrying a spare in the tool box in the trunk. Next, the ball stud for the bel-crank broke at the engine block, so I replaced it and, again, put a spare in the tool box.

Eventually, one of the hardened, stamped steel throw-out fingers failed. At the time, individual replacements were available, and I replaced it but the handwriting was on the wall.

This is where I learned that cost effective engineering results in systems that are designed for intended purposes and some margin, but not too much more. Yes, things have changed since the early 1960s, but that is the subject of another thread.

Having beefed up the inadequate 10.5" clutch (dual disc clutches had not yet become common, and were expensive) I found that the structure within the cockpit beneath the dash was not strong enough to support the forces created by the much stronger springs that I had installed in the pressure plate, itself not intended for use in my Impala. Depressing the clutch caused the dash to displace, again reducing the effective displacement needed to properly release the clutch.

Again, engaging the non synchronized reverse gear was challenging, and cruising around the local drive-in could become interesting if traffic was heavy, as the high pedal pressure necessary to displace and hold the clutch pedal sometimes resulted in fatigue, while insufficient disengagement resulting from displacement of the clutch pedal pivot point resulted in creeping and occasional lurching, and I found it necessary to shut down to avoid incidents. The small block loping at around 1,100 RPM due to the very high overlap camshaft (no VVC in the late 60s) added to the effect, but it sure sounded great.

It was about this time that I got married and sold the 64, both huge mistakes.

Did I mention, that the 64 Impala SS with 327 small block shut down a late 68 (69?, can't remember) SCJ 428 Mustang three out of three with multiple witnesses on the street, and that it was not very close?

Sorry, I reminisced and wrote a treatise.

Dean

It was my understanding that the advantage of the 3 finger ("Long style") pressure plate was that the levers had weights on the outside that increased the centrifugal force on the clutch as the RPMs rose. If true, I wouldn't think you should have had to mess so much with high tension springs.

One of my favorite kinds of story.

Zeke B.

Some do and some don't. The design used by Chevrolet at the time does not.

The so-called diaphragm type was well known to stick to the floor at high RPM, if the throw out bearing pushed the spring beyond center.

Dean