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1964 Ford 4 cyl diesel

C

Carle

Member
Just nicely starting the tear down of my engine. This tractor has not been running for many years. Once head off I noticed head gasket failed between #2 and #3. Possibly why it was parked. Water has got into #4. Shows lots of rust. Engine seized. Probably because of #4. Other 3 cylinders look fair to me. Have cylinders topped with diesel and shall try to break free tmrw. Need to turn engine a bit to get rod bearing bolts off of #4. Any advice on breaking free?
Also can anyone confirm that this engine has dry sleeves? Also there are no remote cylinder hydraulic outlets. Is this a factory option? Thanks for any and all advice!
 
Ford did away with sleeves in those engines about 1959 or so. Someone here will know exactly and hopefully chime in.
But your engine, if original to the tractor is a parent bore block = no sleeves.
As for no remote hyd valve, that was an option on those. Ford style valves are still readily available and are a bolt-on option. They are expensive though. Upwards of $1K for a new 2 spool valve.
Used ones are much less. About $150-$250 for a single spool and $350-$500 for a dual.
Look on ebay or craigslist for a used one or maybe run a free ad in the classifieds here to find one.
The exact same valve will bolt onto any/all of the smaller Fords built from 1955 till well into the 1980s so if you find one from an earlier or later model it will fit your tractor.
 
Ford started using the sleeveless block in 62 with the 2000/4000 series. The quickest way to tell on a 134/144/172 is if the spin on filter has no adapter then it is a later sleeveless engine. If it has a canister filter or an adapter so you can use a spin on its an early sleeved style.
 
I think it was earlier than 62. My pal Ken had a 621 airport tug that was parent bore.
The engine could have been swapped - hard to say.
Someone here will know...
 

My advice is don't plan on freeing it today!!!! You could get lucky but the most important tool is patience. It takes time and a lot of tiny movements to get the fuel down into the rust that has the rings stuck to the bore. What you want is just a slight nudges on that piston with some penetrating time between. An easy way to do this is to jack up one rear and use the weight of the tire and wheel as you push it back and forth to bump the piston. The penetration can be enhanced with the addition of some acetone. Slow and easy can keep the job forgetting bigger.
 
(quoted from post at 08:18:44 01/31/18)
An easy way to do this is to jack up one rear and use the weight of the tire and wheel as you push it back and forth to bump the piston.
Click to expand...

Just an added note here. Carle does not say what transmission his tractor has. If it happens to be an SOS, the rear wheel rocking will not work.
 
(quoted from post at 08:50:09 01/31/18)
(quoted from post at 08:18:44 01/31/18)
An easy way to do this is to jack up one rear and use the weight of the tire and wheel as you push it back and forth to bump the piston.
Click to expand...

Just an added note here. Carle does not say what transmission his tractor has. If it happens to be an SOS, the rear wheel rocking will not work.
Click to expand...

Oops! shoulda looked though Carle earlier posts. He doesn't have an SOS transmission, unless we're talking about a different machine than in his earlier posts.
 
You ought to be able to tell by looking at the block adjacent to the cylinder. If sleeved it should be detectible. I haven't been into my '63 2000D 4 cyl but my '65 3000D 3 cyl which had a cartridge till I fitted an adapter for the Fl-1A doesn't have sleeves.
 
to answer the 'remote' question, there was a factory as well as aftermarket valve that could be bolted onto the hyd cover to gibe you single or dual outlets, including economy diverter-only valves.
 
Don't know if the exact time or serial number are recorded but there were red Red Tiger engines that were parent bored, maybe as late as late 1961's, 62's for sure.
 
The cartridge filter = sleeves / spin-on filter = sleeveless only refers to the Red Tiger (pre-'65) series of engines. Don't know why they went back to cartridges in '65, but they did.
 
(quoted from post at 06:56:09 01/31/18)
(quoted from post at 08:50:09 01/31/18)
(quoted from post at 08:18:44 01/31/18)
An easy way to do this is to jack up one rear and use the weight of the tire and wheel as you push it back and forth to bump the piston.
Click to expand...

Just an added note here. Carle does not say what transmission his tractor has. If it happens to be an SOS, the rear wheel rocking will not work.
Click to expand...

Oops! shoulda looked though Carle earlier posts. He doesn't have an SOS transmission, unless we're talking about a different machine than in his earlier posts.
Click to expand...

Yup Larry I thought of that possibility before posting. Then I took another look at his title, and decided that with the information that he included that if it were SOS that he would have included that too :)
 
Update on motor. I did jack up rear wheel. No movement when I bump the wheel. t looks to have a factory spin on filter. It also has sleeves. Seems to be some different opinions on this item. Some say it should be sleeveless. #4 cylinder has had diesel soaking since first part of December. I was able to get diesel through the manifold on this cylinder. It is dry underneath on # 1 and #4. No fluid draining through. The diesel drains though on # 2 and 3. What does the group think? Should I try other fluids? I read somewhere acetone and ATF might be good. I was trying to avoid removing engine. I am now starting to think I need to remove to get better access. Thanks all once again.
 
(quoted from post at 16:08:41 01/31/18) Update on motor. I did jack up rear wheel. No movement when I bump the wheel. t looks to have a factory spin on filter. It also has sleeves. Seems to be some different opinions on this item. Some say it should be sleeveless. #4 cylinder has had diesel soaking since first part of December. I was able to get diesel through the manifold on this cylinder. It is dry underneath on # 1 and #4. No fluid draining through. The diesel drains though on # 2 and 3. What does the group think? Should I try other fluids? I read somewhere acetone and ATF might be good. I was trying to avoid removing engine. I am now starting to think I need to remove to get better access. Thanks all once again.
Click to expand...

I already suggested acetone to you.
 
Dad worked at the local ford dealer for 22 years and that?s what he has always told me. All the red tractors we have have the canister or adapter and sleeves. I think after a certain time all replacement blocks were sleeveless.
 
Yes you did showcrop. Thanks for that. I now have a mixture over my pistons. #1 drained through last night. Topped
them all up with acetone mixture and I shall leave them be until next week. Three are draining away and one still has
not let one drop through. Next week I shall bump rear wheels a little harder and see if it moves.
 
No I am in first. Do you think better to be in high? Haven?t put
a whole lot of force yet. Waiting longer as per a suggestion.
 
(quoted from post at 04:52:40 02/01/18) On a john Deere I removed the starter and used a crowbar in the flywheel teeth. It might work on a ford.
Click to expand...

That's the way I do it I know some are squirming you just nudge it you are not beating on it are standing on it. With a light nudge with a pry bar you are applying more force than you ever would by rocking the rear wheels... Its just easier you nudge it today if it don't move you nudge it the next day if it don't move you tell it you will be back tomorrow... One thing is for sure its not gonna break free till its ready to break free so no need to rock your arse off trying...
 
Have removed the engine. It is now not seized and is on the bench. Got #4 piston out today. Had a lot of water damage in this cylinder and even though we got the piston out without damage I believe the sleeve will have to be replaced. Will get some professional advice tmrw. I think the marks on wall are too deep. But I believe I shall get it acid washed on account of all the rust and access that sleeve. Maybe I am wrong on those deep rust spots. Thanks everyone that helped. All good advice.
 
(quoted from post at 22:15:09 02/06/18) Have removed the engine. It is now not seized and is on the bench. Got #4 piston out today. Had a lot of water damage in this cylinder and even though we got the piston out without damage I believe the sleeve will have to be replaced. Will get some professional advice tmrw. I think the marks on wall are too deep. But I believe I shall get it acid washed on account of all the rust and access that sleeve. Maybe I am wrong on those deep rust spots. Thanks everyone that helped. All good advice.
Click to expand...

Congratulations! As far as you are now it would make no sense to not renew the sleeves. When you get to reassembly read up here about the rear main seal. You will need to make some decisions there.
 
(quoted from post at 22:15:09 02/06/18) Have removed the engine. It is now not seized and is on the bench. Got #4 piston out today. Had a lot of water damage in this cylinder and even though we got the piston out without damage I believe the sleeve will have to be replaced. Will get some professional advice tmrw. I think the marks on wall are too deep. But I believe I shall get it acid washed on account of all the rust and access that sleeve. Maybe I am wrong on those deep rust spots. Thanks everyone that helped. All good advice.
Click to expand...

Congratulations! As far as you are now it would make no sense to not renew the sleeves. When you get to reassembly read up here about the rear main seal. You will need to make some decisions there.
 
Yes Showcrop. 'in for a penny, in for a pound'. Took my engine and parts to shop for professional acid wash and they are going to install 4 new sleeves. Where/how do I find that info you mentioned on rear crankshaft bearing? I looked in archives to no avail.
 
(quoted from post at 18:53:26 02/07/18) Yes Showcrop. 'in for a penny, in for a pound'. Took my engine and parts to shop for professional acid wash and they are going to install 4 new sleeves. Where/how do I find that info you mentioned on rear crankshaft bearing? I looked in archives to no avail.
Click to expand...

It is the rear main seal. Most guys will tell you to get the two piece neoprene lip sealinsteade of using a rope seal. That is what I used last time. Then throw away the two rubber side seals with the steel pins, and use Victor Reinz silver RTV on the sides of the rear main block.
 
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